Falling pics 11/25/09

[Greystoke]

Just got back from a tree job. Little blue spruce had about 250 bd ft. in it. That video of mine jacking the firewood fir...that tree was over 2 bushel. last one I cut, I decided to measure length and scale. It was 32" inside bark dbh, 125' tall and just over 2 bushel. How many cords are in a bushel? Did some research on it and came up with different results. As far as scaling a log or tree...most of my career we used west side scale since I was on the coast. East of the cascades, or any other coastal range we used east side scale. Only used doyle scale when I fell timber in the swamps of Florida. What I remember most about the difference between west and east side scale was that we did not seem to get as many bd. ft. with west side. Think it has something to do with short vs. long logs. Now, when we fell a bigger tree we had to scale the but logs on site to make sure that the helicopter could fly them before we bucked them. For this we always carried a scale tape on our spenders. Say you have a 32' log (minus 10,11, or 12" trim depending on mill) that is 28" diameter. Your scale tape has 12, 14, 16, and 18' logs on one side and ahh hell, I'm gonna make a video. One other thing...the scale that we got paid for we used scale tables at home at night when we recorded our scale off our hats...the only reason for having the scale tape on our spenders was so that we could make sure we did not buck logs too heavy to fly...good way to piss off bullbucks, hookers, pilots and pms!

[video=youtube;9iUj3mHKIWI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iUj3mHKIWI[/video]

 

[Metals406]

Just got back from a tree job. Little blue spruce had about 250 bd ft. in it. That video of mine jacking the firewood fir...that tree was over 2 bushel. last one I cut, I decided to measure length and scale. It was 32" inside bark dbh, 125' tall and just over 2 bushel. How many cords are in a bushel? Did some research on it and came up with different results. As far as scaling a log or tree...most of my career we used west side scale since I was on the coast. East of the cascades, or any other coastal range we used east side scale. Only used doyle scale when I fell timber in the swamps of Florida. What I remember most about the difference between west and east side scale was that we did not seem to get as many bd. ft. with west side. Think it has something to do with short vs. long logs. Now, when we fell a bigger tree we had to scale the but logs on site to make sure that the helicopter could fly them before we bucked them. For this we always carried a scale tape on our spenders. Say you have a 32' log (minus 10,11, or 12" trim depending on mill) that is 28" diameter. Your scale tape has 12, 14, 16, and 18' logs on one side and ahh hell, I'm gonna make a video. One other thing...the scale that we got paid for we used scale tables at home at night when we recorded our scale off our hats...the only reason for having the scale tape on our spenders was so that we could make sure we did not buck logs too heavy to fly...good way to piss off bullbucks, hookers, pilots and pms!

[video=youtube;9iUj3mHKIWI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iUj3mHKIWI[/video]

Awesome info Cody!

On the "Cord" thing, there is always 128 cu. ft. in one cord. A scale tape would let you get Mbf, then a guy could convert to cu. ft.

[NERD]Let's say your tree was 2,000 board feet, and one board foot is 0.08333 cu. ft. -- you would multiply board feet by 0.08333, and have 166.66 cu. ft. -- or 1.3 cord. True cord, not no dang air gaps. Even firewood permits reflect the fact that a true cord is a cu. ft. measurement of wood (not air), but can also be expressed in a pile w/ air gaps.[/NERD]

You can also use the Frustrum of a Cone formula, but a scale tape/stick is quicker.

 

[forestryworks]

Awesome info Cody!

On the "Cord" thing, there is always 128 cu. ft. in one cord. A scale tape would let you get Mbf, then a guy could convert to cu. ft.

[NERD]Let's say your tree was 2,000 board feet, and one board foot is 0.08333 cu. ft. -- you would multiply board feet by 0.08333, and have 166.66 cu. ft. -- or 1.3 cord. True cord, not no dang air gaps. Even firewood permits reflect the fact that a true cord is a cu. ft. measurement of wood (not air), but can also be expressed in a pile w/ air gaps.[/NERD]

You can also use the Frustrum of a Cone formula, but a scale tape/stick is quicker.

But doesn't an actual cord contain between 80-90 cu. ft. of solid wood? I forget where I've read that, but it had a +/- 10-12 cu. ft. depending on species.

The 128cu. ft. is how much space a 4'x4'x8' stacked cord occupies, which includes air space, bark space, and fart space.

 

[RandyMac]

Awesome info Cody!

On the "Cord" thing, there is always 128 cu. ft. in one cord. A scale tape would let you get Mbf, then a guy could convert to cu. ft.

[NERD]Let's say your tree was 2,000 board feet, and one board foot is 0.08333 cu. ft. -- you would multiply board feet by 0.08333, and have 166.66 cu. ft. -- or 1.3 cord. True cord, not no dang air gaps. Even firewood permits reflect the fact that a true cord is a cu. ft. measurement of wood (not air), but can also be expressed in a pile w/ air gaps.[/NERD]

You can also use the Frustrum of a Cone formula, but a scale tape/stick is quicker.

ohferchristsakes

variables
in heavily tapered timber, buck shorter logs.
kick off a batear? dab mud in the hole
coat ends of a big Chinkapin log with mud and watch 966 do handstands

 

[Greystoke]

Awesome info Cody!

On the "Cord" thing, there is always 128 cu. ft. in one cord. A scale tape would let you get Mbf, then a guy could convert to cu. ft.

[NERD]Let's say your tree was 2,000 board feet, and one board foot is 0.08333 cu. ft. -- you would multiply board feet by 0.08333, and have 166.66 cu. ft. -- or 1.3 cord. True cord, not no dang air gaps. Even firewood permits reflect the fact that a true cord is a cu. ft. measurement of wood (not air), but can also be expressed in a pile w/ air gaps.[/NERD]

You can also use the Frustrum of a Cone formula, but a scale tape/stick is quicker.

Well by god Ima sayin that a two bushel tree is over 3 cord and ifn anybody says any differnt Ima gonna be on them like a pissant on a popsicle stick!

 

[Greystoke]

Just hackin Nate...thanks for the info:smile2: That was a big ass 1.3 cord load! I know when we talk about scale, we are talking about the scaling cylinder which is an equal square drawn on the small end of the log, so maybe not accounting for all the rest which, supposedly gets slabbed off at the mill...I know I never got paid for it, but I am sure somebody did!

 

[RandyMac]

Just hackin Nate...thanks for the info:smile2: That was a big ass 1.3 cord load! I know when we talk about scale, we are talking about the scaling cylinder which is an equal square drawn on the small end of the log, so maybe not accounting for all the rest which, supposedly gets slabbed off at the mill...I know I never got paid for it, but I am sure somebody did!

The guy with the canthook at the headrig gets paid for the slabwood.

 

[mdavlee]

Here's a couple more. I put some more up in off topic. I'll try to get a few more up later this evening.

 

[slowp]

Yah, iffen youse got paid scale on dur Vestside, youse got less in da old growth.

Back in dem days, da mill wanted the butt logs to go out in 40 foot lengths. 40 feet was the maximum allowable in da USFS contract. Plus trim, of course. The butt would go on the truck with two small bunk logs and that was a load. Now, something for Jake to think about. The scaling cylinder as it is called, is the inside bark diameter of the log at the small end. So, the mill paid for a smaller bit of wood than they actually got out of those big 40 footers. Had they cut it into two 20 footers, they would have had to pay for more, because the small end of the butt log at 20 feet would be larger than the one at 40 feet. Eastside scale, I'm trying to remember way back so not certain, was 16 foot logs?? At least it was for cruising.

Don't mix up scaling and cruising. They are two seperate beasts.

Since then, the Forest Service has gone to cubic feet. I was taught Scribner Board feet so only know that roughly there are 9.7 ccf on a log truck. There is close to 5mbf on a normal log truck, and 10 cords on a log truck, and around 28 tons. All this varies with time of year, area it comes from, defect, legal or not, etc.

Is your head hurting yet?

A good book to get, if you are interested in scaling, is (and I think they started printing it again mine is old)
A Manual of Instruction for Log Scaling and the Measurement of Timber Products.
It was put out by the Idaho State Board for Vocational Education. Mine is the 1974 version. There are nice color pictures in it of defect, and all sorts of diagrams of scaling situations.

I last used a scaling stick to open and close the vents in the office. We went to weight scale.

 

[forestryworks]

Some more scaling resources - Idaho Board of Scaling Practices Website

 

[madhatte]

Gotta have this one too

 

[056kid]

####, ####, god damnit, sonova #####, I wanna fall some ####### timber!! All this mbf talk, ####! I spent all day feeding a chipper

 

[Sport Faller]

Thanks all for the ####load of info, Cody that was a pretty cool vid, I might have to snag up a tape like that just cause. I wanna go dump some trees now soooooo bad, but tomorrow I actually get to do a bit of acting, America's Most Wanted is doing a Documentary on David Burgert and they're using my Mom's property and asked me if I wanted a part as one of Burgert's mob, so ya'll can just call me Hollywood now :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[Sport Faller]

But doesn't an actual cord contain between 80-90 cu. ft. of solid wood? I forget where I've read that, but it had a +/- 10-12 cu. ft. depending on species.

The 128cu. ft. is how much space a 4'x4'x8' stacked cord occupies, which includes air space, bark space, and fart space.

From all of the whatnot I've heard they say that 500 bf is a pretty good guesstamate for a cord (that number gives allowance for airspace)

 

[Metals406]

But doesn't an actual cord contain between 80-90 cu. ft. of solid wood? I forget where I've read that, but it had a +/- 10-12 cu. ft. depending on species.

The 128cu. ft. is how much space a 4'x4'x8' stacked cord occupies, which includes air space, bark space, and fart space.

Well, by God! Last years permit says "A cord is a stack of wood 4' X 4' X 8' or 128 cu.ft. of wood." I'm just going off of their wording, in Engrish.

This years permit don't have nuthin' on it that defines a cord. The point I was making, is if'n a guy actually figured what ya got by footage, you walk out'a the woods with more wood, instead of wood and air. They must'a removed the definition cause it caused a stink eh?? :msp_mad:

It's an age old argument about what a "cord" is.

All I know is. . . I can't burn air.

 

[Metals406]

Hey Paw-Paw!! Tell'em I'll play Burgert! All I gotta do is walk into the woods and disappear right?

And tell'em I'm bringing a cotton pick'n cord of wood with me too! 128 cubic by God feet! :biggrin:

 

[Sport Faller]

Hey Paw-Paw!! Tell'em I'll play Burgert! All I gotta do is walk into the woods and disappear right?

And tell'em I'm bringing a cotton pick'n cord of wood with me too! 128 cubic by God feet! :biggrin:

LOL, if your gonna play Burgert you'd better look like that supersized pic of you on Facebook. The funny thing is I actually own a bunch of the FAL magazines that were confiscated from Burgert's compound. The sherrifs office brought them to my favorite gunstore to put em on consignment

 

[forestryworks]

All I know is. . . I can't burn air.

Why, sure you can! Watch "Dumb and Dumber" :biggrinbounce2:

 

[RandyMac]

Originally Posted by Metals406
All I know is. . . I can't burn air.

tell that to Bessemer.

 

[Metals406]

We need some chainsawing, timberfalling, bucking, videos/pics.

Jake, Cody, Randy, you're up!

Only pictures I can provide right now, involves me performing an exorcism on my refrigerator.