RandyMac
Stiff Member
those 5 inchers can be trouble, got enough saw?
Falling pics 11/25/09
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those 5 inchers can be trouble, got enough saw?
Metals406
Granfodder Runningsaw
The big twin Silvey jacks are like 128 ton (256,000 pounds).
Cody T. has said he's redlined jacks on a big tree with a breeze. A guy could figure out the geometry and calculate loads put on jacks, but it would have to be done for every tree.
The biggest danger with bottle jacks is their lack of a gauge. You can't see your pressures -- resistance on the jack handle is an okay indicator of being close to max load, but not for quick loads from shifting or wind.
I imagine a guy could drill and tap a jack for a gauge if it was in the right spot. It would be better, but still not purpose built for tree work.
A guy should always back-up your jacks with wedges just in case. I've seen guys get relaxed with jacking, and if the jack were to let go, the tree would set back and bad stuff could ensue.
If I was jacking trees with a bottle jack, I wouldn't go with anything under 30 ton -- preferably something in the 50 ton range.
Cody T. has said he's redlined jacks on a big tree with a breeze. A guy could figure out the geometry and calculate loads put on jacks, but it would have to be done for every tree.
The biggest danger with bottle jacks is their lack of a gauge. You can't see your pressures -- resistance on the jack handle is an okay indicator of being close to max load, but not for quick loads from shifting or wind.
I imagine a guy could drill and tap a jack for a gauge if it was in the right spot. It would be better, but still not purpose built for tree work.
A guy should always back-up your jacks with wedges just in case. I've seen guys get relaxed with jacking, and if the jack were to let go, the tree would set back and bad stuff could ensue.
If I was jacking trees with a bottle jack, I wouldn't go with anything under 30 ton -- preferably something in the 50 ton range.
tramp bushler
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Lot of things can go wrong jacking timber. A lot of guys just want to pump on the handle and forget about the wedges.
The way I was taught and the way I always used a Jack was to make wedging easier/ doable.
Yes it was a bit slower and a lot harder. But it worked.
Something that has a lot to do with the size Jack needed is, how tall is the timber your falling.
A Sitka Spruce that is 6' on the stump but only 160' tall will probably be a lot easier to lift than a Doug Fir that's 5' on the stump and 300' tall.
Also I prefer more jacks to bigger jacks. I've split the back off a couple trees lifting them.
The way I was taught and the way I always used a Jack was to make wedging easier/ doable.
Yes it was a bit slower and a lot harder. But it worked.
Something that has a lot to do with the size Jack needed is, how tall is the timber your falling.
A Sitka Spruce that is 6' on the stump but only 160' tall will probably be a lot easier to lift than a Doug Fir that's 5' on the stump and 300' tall.
Also I prefer more jacks to bigger jacks. I've split the back off a couple trees lifting them.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
I watched a stubborn oaf lift a 48" very tall DF straight up off the stump, blown jacks and a bent bar were the results, it didn't go well for the tree either, a load of chunks was left.
Dang I should learn how to type or start building a replica stone henge... that was meant to be feet by the way...
tramp bushler
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Not being a know it all. But just from experience, If q tree can get away from me, I. Rig it and pull it over. If it might sail away side hill into something I don't want destroyed
tramp bushler
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Sorry, I got sidetracked by a friend that needs a wood sled for his snogo.
I hang pandelum lines in trees that will drift / sail down sidehill.
If they are out in a unit I let them fly, but if something like a powerhouse is underneath me I rig the snot out of them.
I hang pandelum lines in trees that will drift / sail down sidehill.
If they are out in a unit I let them fly, but if something like a powerhouse is underneath me I rig the snot out of them.
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
When you get up past a double stack of wedges you need to pop a chunk of wood in or something. Defintely don't be in a hurrry jacking. Its all about reading the tree and the jack. My trees weigh a lot for their height. A lot more crown to consider over a conifer I would imagine. Its kind of a grunt it over situation. The taller the wood the greater the leverage though. I could see things going wrong quickly in tall softwood. The other thing is hinge placement and how much to keep. You don't want to put too much pressure on the hinge and you should keep all the hinge you can get away with. In the pic with the 30ton I put the hinge a lot farther forward than I normally would. Usually my face depths are more than a third to half the diameter. That one was maybe a quarter.
The thing about the bigger bottle jacks is they almost double in weight when you double the lifting power. That 30 ton stubby of mine is 50-60lbs. A 50 ton by the same company was somewhere around 80-90lbs. My jack is sitting under a stump right now. Its a ##### to pack out with the rest of my gear so it camps out there.
The thing about the bigger bottle jacks is they almost double in weight when you double the lifting power. That 30 ton stubby of mine is 50-60lbs. A 50 ton by the same company was somewhere around 80-90lbs. My jack is sitting under a stump right now. Its a ##### to pack out with the rest of my gear so it camps out there.
GASoline71
Mr. Nice Guy
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
I would buy a new one if you were to make one. At least you'd have a starting point then. It was only ever used on trees kind of thing. The other thing is lifting height. You want them to lift at least 4 inches. I think that 30 ton lifts up around 5". A double stack of wedges is 2.75"- 3" at best. Some trees don't really need that much lift to get them over it just makes getting em started a lot easier with a jack.
tramp bushler
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Yup, , it saves ALOT of beating. And on plenty of trees it makes it so you can actually dire tionally fall them.
Samlock
Addicted to ArboristSite
Glen, is there any sort of wedges would hold in the deep frozen wood? I do a lot jacking in winter because the steely wood keeps spitting the wedges out if there's any pressure on. I don't mind jacking, but I mind dragging the thing around in the snow.
bitzer
******** Timber Expert
Sam- A little sawdust in the kerf helps keep the wedges from popping out. Otherwise Oregon and some other wedges come with teeth, although they don't drive real straight and really don't drive straight when stacking. One tooth grabs and pulls one side in etc. Just plain old textured wedges work well, but you are usually best off with a really fine taper wedge to open er up and then pound in some fatties. K&H 10" is pretty fine, Double taper 12" wide-bill, Stihl makes a real fine taper 8" and 10" if I remember correctly.
The mounds are all pretty close together at the back part of this job.
Keepin the kerf open of my dutch so I could keep cutting. Roots are awesome when you have them.
View attachment 274429
View attachment 274430
The mounds are all pretty close together at the back part of this job.
Keepin the kerf open of my dutch so I could keep cutting. Roots are awesome when you have them.
View attachment 274429
View attachment 274430
Samlock
Addicted to ArboristSite
Bitz, I never thought that saw dust thing for more traction.
I've got both Stihl and Oregon wedges, with nails and without, fine and fat. I don't know if it's just me, but the plastic feels like it gets harder in the cold than it used to. I've always had problems with softwoods below zero fahrenheit degrees. The wood turns glass. I've managed somehow this far, but now it seems like the kerf is literally throwing the wedges out.
It came to me I'm going to give a metal splitting wedge a try. It may well eat few chains, but at least it shouldn't sink into the frozen wood.
I've got both Stihl and Oregon wedges, with nails and without, fine and fat. I don't know if it's just me, but the plastic feels like it gets harder in the cold than it used to. I've always had problems with softwoods below zero fahrenheit degrees. The wood turns glass. I've managed somehow this far, but now it seems like the kerf is literally throwing the wedges out.
It came to me I'm going to give a metal splitting wedge a try. It may well eat few chains, but at least it shouldn't sink into the frozen wood.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
Sam- A little sawdust in the kerf helps keep the wedges from popping out. Otherwise Oregon and some other wedges come with teeth, although they don't drive real straight and really don't drive straight when stacking. One tooth grabs and pulls one side in etc. Just plain old textured wedges work well, but you are usually best off with a really fine taper wedge to open er up and then pound in some fatties. K&H 10" is pretty fine, Double taper 12" wide-bill, Stihl makes a real fine taper 8" and 10" if I remember correctly.
The mounds are all pretty close together at the back part of this job.
Keepin the kerf open of my dutch so I could keep cutting. Roots are awesome when you have them.
View attachment 274429
View attachment 274430
I'll bet that sounded good.
mile9socounty
Two-Stroke Swope
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Throwing myself to the wolves.
Throwing myself to the wolves.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
fiber puller
mile9socounty
Two-Stroke Swope
Gotta start somewhere Randy. :msp_razz:
RandyMac
Stiff Member
So true, it is not like I never pulled fibers.
mile9socounty
Two-Stroke Swope
Thank you again Randy. If yall got some input. You know, Pros and Cons. I have skin thick enough to take it. Just not enough beer.
