Firewood Bid Estimation

[FLRA_Dave]

You don't mention a surety deposit and the conditions involved in either losing or getting it back.

He did mention a small deposit to make sure that rutting was taken care of if I wanted to bring equipment in. Makes it almost sound like equipment was optional... I would hate to see how long it would take without it.

 

[treeslayer2003]

if that bid sheet is all the timber that is coming off, it ain't much on 200 acres. and if your only gonna cut the tops of the trees harvested then no way is their that much wood.

 

[philoshop]

Hey Dave,
Lots of really good points in the above posts. I mean lots!

A contract for you on this sounds like trouble waiting to happen. JMO, buddy. It'll probably cost you more in attorney's fees to get some good paper for the job to protect yourself than the job's worth.
I've worked with a couple of timber brokers and logging crews in the past, on the hardwood lumber side, and I've seen tops get picked over for firewood by the logging crews. Not sure if that would be the case if there was a different contract in place for the tops. Just sayin'.

Also the sheet is really heavy with red maple. Not considered primo firewood around here.
If you could get it in small sections at a time with an opt-out, it might be worth a try. I know your not afraid of the work but that sounds like a helluva lot of work for a relatively small amount of firewood.

 

[066blaster]

That is a very good question.



In NY I know that in general you are restricted to a 50 mile radius from the source of the wood unless it was kiln dried and what not.

we have restrictions too but what agency polices it? i wouldn't haul that far anyway. but i dont think anyone would stop and ask you where you got it and where your going with it. i also wonder if there talking about already processed firewood. or does this include any wood?? i think we have certain counties in a quarantine zone. you cant haul firewood out but you can bring wood in.

 

[farmer steve]

The guy seems to have no problems with it going over several years, but he is concerned that the wood will get tough to cut if let to dry too long. The only reason I am considering it is because it is within 15 minutes of my sister in-law and I'm over there every other weekend for 4-5 hours while my wife is at work. I have other guys that say they are willing to help, but I have heard that before...

if the time frame is not a problem then you can get the softer woods first and then get the hardwoods. it shouldn't be any tougher to cut in a couple of years but you will have to deal with new overgrowth like briars and new saplings.

 

[FLRA_Dave]

if that bid sheet is all the timber that is coming off, it ain't much on 200 acres. and if your only gonna cut the tops of the trees harvested then no way is their that much wood.

He says that any tops and downed trees are fair game. Just mapped it... it's only 7.8 miles away from my sister in-laws and only 2 turns.

I got this response from him today:

"I just spoke to my timber manager and we were negotiating something with an additional 4 or 5 white oaks. THEY ARE HUGE... I MEAN MONSTROUS. I guess only one of them was suitable for timber, so they are just going to fall the others and leave them for me to offer as firewood, or someone may even be able to sell them for timber to a mill. These trees alone (just 4 or 5 of them) could probably produce 50 cords of wood. THEY ARE SICK HUGE!"

I got about 3 cord out of a huge silver maple that I took down (guessing at least 5ft diameter - my 28" bar would go half way through it). The main trunk wasn't that long... maybe 5 ft tall before branching out. 50 cord still sounds like a lot unless they truly are freakishly huge.

 

[FLRA_Dave]

if that bid sheet is all the timber that is coming off, it ain't much on 200 acres. and if your only gonna cut the tops of the trees harvested then no way is their that much wood.

Yeah, I keep thinking that there is less than what he was thinking. Only really have the bid sheet to go off of now. It's not like I can go through and measure every top to come up with a number.

 

[nathon918]

oak,ash and hickory are the only ones that will be good after any length of time on the ground.top prices here are $25-35 per top.everyones replies all have good merit.i wouldn't attempt such a large amount without good help and lots of time. good luck if you do it.
Steve

wow thats a pretty high price per top. local biomass power plant is buying chips @ $28 a ton right now,

Yeah, I keep thinking that there is less than what he was thinking. Only really have the bid sheet to go off of now. It's not like I can go through and measure every top to come up with a number.

is the logger still there? if so could you contact him, tell him what your doing, and ask him what he would guess is there in tops?
also do you know if it was all hand cut or did they come in with a feller buncher? if they came in with a buncher, then likely theres alot of small wood (under 4-5") that they cut so they could get to the wood they were after.
i also wouldnt even think of bidding on that without walking the lot...
id also try to figure out what time you have available weekly, and figure out how much wood you could move in that amount of time.

and if you do end up working this, id go at it one thing at a time (in sections) go in limb off everything you dont want on all tops in a given area, THEN pull the wood to the landing, i wouldnt be cutting a little then pulling a little then hauling that small amount home.
i wouldnt even think of bringing any home until there was atleast enough on the landing to keep me busy JUST hauling loads for a day or two.

you definetly cant run this job like the one you had a thread on last year, you were all over the place on that, even though its only tops it still needs to be run like any other operation, CUT,SKID,HAUL, doing little ammounts of each is the biggest waste of time!
nothing against you but personally i wouldnt hire someone that only had maybe a few hours a week and a few hours every other weekend to do a job that big.

 

[farmer steve]

wow thats a pretty high price per top. local biomass power plant is buying chips @ $28 a ton right now,

we have a huge paper mill 20 mins. away and they pay top $$$ for all the wood they can get. one day i saw atrailer load of all hickory headin for the mill. that plus all the wood burners in our area.i saw firewood on sat. selling for $150 1/2 cord at the local hay/ firewood auction.

 

[FLRA_Dave]

wow thats a pretty high price per top. local biomass power plant is buying chips @ $28 a ton right now,


is the logger still there? if so could you contact him, tell him what your doing, and ask him what he would guess is there in tops?
also do you know if it was all hand cut or did they come in with a feller buncher? if they came in with a buncher, then likely theres alot of small wood (under 4-5") that they cut so they could get to the wood they were after.
i also wouldnt even think of bidding on that without walking the lot...
id also try to figure out what time you have available weekly, and figure out how much wood you could move in that amount of time.

and if you do end up working this, id go at it one thing at a time (in sections) go in limb off everything you dont want on all tops in a given area, THEN pull the wood to the landing, i wouldnt be cutting a little then pulling a little then hauling that small amount home.
i wouldnt even think of bringing any home until there was atleast enough on the landing to keep me busy JUST hauling loads for a day or two.

you definetly cant run this job like the one you had a thread on last year, you were all over the place on that, even though its only tops it still needs to be run like any other operation, CUT,SKID,HAUL, doing little ammounts of each is the biggest waste of time!
nothing against you but personally i wouldnt hire someone that only had maybe a few hours a week and a few hours every other weekend to do a job that big.

I actually don't expect the guy to take my bid due to me telling him 6 cord per month (a total guess without seeing the land yet), but he has been open to it so far. I've been getting better at moving wood, so I think 6/mo would be doable depending the lot conditions. Told him I will be over to walk it for final estimations.

 

[066blaster]

He says that any tops and downed trees are fair game. Just mapped it... it's only 7.8 miles away from my sister in-laws and only 2 turns.

I got this response from him today:

"I just spoke to my timber manager and we were negotiating something with an additional 4 or 5 white oaks. THEY ARE HUGE... I MEAN MONSTROUS. I guess only one of them was suitable for timber, so they are just going to fall the others and leave them for me to offer as firewood, or someone may even be able to sell them for timber to a mill. These trees alone (just 4 or 5 of them) could probably produce 50 cords of wood. THEY ARE SICK HUGE!"

I got about 3 cord out of a huge silver maple that I took down (guessing at least 5ft diameter - my 28" bar would go half way through it). The main trunk wasn't that long... maybe 5 ft tall before branching out. 50 cord still sounds like a lot unless they truly are freakishly huge.

I think the guy is off on his estimates . 50 cords out of 4-5 trees is ridiculous. The most I have got out of a huge tree is 5.5 . And also there will probably be some rot in the middle or ant damage. I cut a huge hickory not to long ago that was mostly hollow or rotten. Once I cut it I had to take it. I didn't pay for most of it but it was a lot of work for crap wood. I look a little closer at them now.

 

[muddstopper]

I personally dont see 330crds in the tops. I dont know how logging works in NY, but around here, if the timber is sawlogs and pulpwood, the tops are usually chopped for the pulp and hualed to the chip mill. At any rate, if you dont walk it first, your nuts. I hate working tops, but I would offer the landowner a price per actual cord removed from site and my price wouldnt be very high. In fact, around here, landowners usually have to pay to have the brush cleaned up. I would much prefer to buy standing timber.

 

[Swamp Yankee]

I think the guy is off on his estimates . 50 cords out of 4-5 trees is ridiculous. The most I have got out of a huge tree is 5.5 . And also there will probably be some rot in the middle or ant damage. I cut a huge hickory not to long ago that was mostly hollow or rotten. Once I cut it I had to take it. I didn't pay for most of it but it was a lot of work for crap wood. I look a little closer at them now.

My first thought too.

Trees that reach that diameter, are almost always hollow or mush at the core. Oaks, ash, maples, hickory, it doesn't matter, they're on the decline making them a target for disease and insects.

I won't comment on 50 cord out of 5 trees other than to say this is one time doing a little Missouri imitation and saying "show me" is in order.

Take Care

 

[dave_dj1]

I'm in the process of cutting tops on a 175 acres that was logged off this past summer. The loggers there must have only taken the first log and left the rest as tops. I've seen some really neat and orderly loggers and some very messy with disregard to anything loggers. The nice thing is that he doesn't appear to be in any hurry so that will be nice for you. I'm not sure where he's getting his numbers unless he is counting cull trees and tops. Good luck in any event and keep us posted.
dave

 

[066blaster]

Another thing to think about is summer will you cut when it's 85. Or does he expect you to?

 

[FLRA_Dave]

Another thing to think about is summer will you cut when it's 85. Or does he expect you to?

I'm not sure if he expects me to or not, but I sure will.

 

[blackdogon57]

Around here firewood logs are worth 80-100 dollars per cord at the landing and $150 plus per cord delivered . Don't see why these loggers and land owner would leave that kind of money sitting on the ground. Why not just skid it out and haul it to market ? Alarm bells would be ringing for me if offered this deal.

 

[FLRA_Dave]

Around here firewood logs are worth 80-100 dollars per cord at the landing and $150 plus per cord delivered . Don't see why these loggers and land owner would leave that kind of money sitting on the ground. Why not just skid it out and haul it to market ? Alarm bells would be ringing for me if offered this deal.

I'm not picturing logs that would transport well. This it's what I'm getting for tops at my current location. Had to pull out out of a pile.

 

[blackdogon57]

Gotcha. Be careful logging with that John Deere ! I dropped a log on my 3320 the other day. Smashed the hood up real good. Dealer wanted over $1000 for a new hood. Picked a used one in Watertown NY today for $250. Worth the 400 mile round trip. Very tough machines. 2300 hours and counting on mine.

 

[066blaster]

Are you selling firewood or is it for personal use? They dint leave much for you. But I guess you have to take what's available.