roostersgt
Addicted to ArboristSite
Not into calling people idiots, but if one was truly "cheap", wouldn't they just buy up a half dozen old Mac "runners"s instead of a burned up 20 years old clamshell Stihl? Just asking.
Firewood Showdown: MAC 10-10 A vs. STIHL MS290
- Thread starter Michigan Muscle
- Start date
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Not into calling people idiots, but if one was truly "cheap", wouldn't they just buy up a half dozen old Mac "runners"s instead of a burned up 20 years old clamshell Stihl? Just asking.
Eccentric
Mister Wizard
Nope...................because they're idiots...
Maybe I didn't explain myself clearly enough. I'll try again. The guys the buy up the old Macs and Homies are of a completely different mind set than your average saw owner. They'll spend whatever it takes and go to great pains to faithfully restore an old saw for, usually, no other reason than the fact that they admire it and enjoy the process. Kinda like the guys who restore old cars or old airplanes. Sure, there's more efficient machinery available off the shelf...but efficient doesn't always mean better.
The other people buying used saws, like yourself by the looks of your signature, are looking for ways to save money. How many threads have there been on AS about somebody buying a CL or E-Bay saw and getting royally hosed? They'll buy something sight unseen, depending on the honesty of a total stranger, just to save a buck. Or try to anyway. A guy with a garage full of junky non running plastic saws is a packrat. A guy with a garage full of of vintage chainsaws, running or not, is helping to preserve history...and probably having some fun at the same time.
I'm no saw mechanic and I don't pretend to be...unlike some others here. But if I needed an old saw, which I hope I never do again after running some of them when they were state of the art, there are some good people on here I'd buy from.
You're not one of them.
mactodd
ArboristSite Operative
Look, it's good you at least attempt to do some research, but here's the facts: Between 1965 and 1980 something, there were more 10 series Macs sold than any other family of saws. Period.
What is missing from the real world weights and what you quote is the super heavy chainbrake /muffler cover from the latest versions. IMO, that's something that just gets in the way, and being an early chainbrake, it doesn't work as effectively as the new ones.
Mac advertised the 1-10 as 11.5 lbs. That was PHO, dry. Only difference between that and a 2-10/10-10 was the addition of an auto oiler. I've found the right hand starts are a few ounces lighter than the left hand versions.
Now, that's just the 54cc versions. If you get a 10-10S, at 57cc, replace the chainbrake with a small flat clutch cover, you have a 14 lb screamer. The difference between a 10-10 and the S version is very noticeable.
Get ya a good running example of a 10-10 for under $100 and check it out. You will see what we are talking about. If Mark "I bleed Poulan green" comes to it's defense, you better pay attention.
homelitejim
Full of Scrap
I am not so much a fan of either the 10-10 or the 290, my personal favorite 50cc class saw is the 260 and right behind it is my 032. I do have a gear drive 10-10 that is interesting but it has stayed a bit to long and is in search of a new home so I can concentrate on larger heavier saws. I never complain about weight, you see I have a Homelite 995G running 1/2 inch chain on a 40" bar, now that is a heavy saw, after I put that saw down all other saws seem light. I guess if you don't have one of these big bruisers and your largest saw is a 290 a few extra ounces might be a big thing.
[video=youtube;k0v3ompmyNI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0v3ompmyNI[/video]
[video=youtube;k0v3ompmyNI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0v3ompmyNI[/video]
bcorradi
Arboristsite.com Sponsor
I think an 029 will cut up you and bob's firewood needs for the next 30 or so years. They aren't the bad saw you portray them to be.Because $120 would only get you a recoil rope and a air filter from the Stihl dealer? Just guessing....
roostersgt
Addicted to ArboristSite
You don't know me at all enough to make the above judgement. FYI, I've never sold a saw. I gave my only Mac away to my BIL for his BD, along with a dinner. I only build Stihls because I have an interest in small engines and the parts are readily available, and if I ever did want to liquidate them, it'd be real easy to recoup my expenses. Most are vintage 028's and all the saws in my signature are runners. For "restoration", I'll stick to 60's corvettes and pre'64 Winchesters. Saws just get "rebuilt".
I'm positive that a 029 will not be cutting up my firewood anytime soon.
I didnt mean to portry them anyway just pointed out the facts. I know what they are and what they are not, I spent my own money to find out and I make money working on them sometime.
The quote I made that you pointed out is the biggest reason I dont own one. I refuse to be married to the crooks they call Stihl dealers around here and the Stihl companies desire for me to be dependent on them.
I'd guess those 15.5 # 1010 saws were weighed with the bar and chain as many were on Acres site. Steve
Ever cut Eucalyptus or Madrone Mark? Try some the next time you're out west visiting family. Cut some of the Live Oak, Tan Oak, Valley Oak, and Black Oak that we have here while you're at it too. Then there's all the walnut and the various fruit trees. I'm sure I'm leaving some species out. The west coast isn't entirely covered with Pines, Firs, and Redwoods you know...
Eucalyptus, West Coast, in an area that only gets 6-10" rain a year, with a 7-10
[video=youtube;uv7EYpaUrZg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv7EYpaUrZg[/video]
I have used an 028 and 029, 290, etc. And you could not pay me to take one regardless of condition. I'd rather have a good condition 10-10 or 7-10 any day. In fact, i would rather have a stock Echo cs-520 with a muffler mod than an 028 or 290. That 7-10 weighs about as much as my 262xp does.
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Where is that 3.8hp, I've never found anywhere near that much in a 029 or 290. More like 3.2 by the way they cut compared to other saws with 3.7 or 3.8 hp. Steve
I never said the 029 was a bad saw. For it's intended use I'm sure it does a fine job and if I needed a small saw I'd probably consider it. It just doesn't fit anything that I do with saws.
And, if somebody wants to cut my firewood for the next thirty years with one...I'm all for that.
I'll draw a map to where I'm cutting and leave you a key for the gate. Stack the wood neatly by the garage, please.
roostersgt
Addicted to ArboristSite
From Acres site and Just like every other site, it say "Powerhead Only".
Model: Pro-Mac 10-10
________________________________________
MANUFACTURED BY:
McCULLOCH MOTORS CORP.
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA, U.S.A.
SERIES OR ASSEMBLY NUMBER:
600014, codes A,B,C,E,F,G,K,U serial prefix 11, 12
YEAR INTRODUCED:
1977
YEAR DISCONTINUED:
1982
ENGINE DISPLACEMENT:
3.3 cu. in. (54 cc)
NUMBER OF CYLINDERS:
1
CYLINDER BORE:
1.750 in.
PISTON STROKE:
1.375 in.
CYLINDER TYPE:
Aluminum with cast iron sleeve
INTAKE METHOD:
Piston ported
MANUFACTURER ADVERTISED H.P.:
not advertised
WEIGHT :
15.6 lbs. (7.1 kg) powerhead onlyOPERATOR CONFIGURATION:
One Man operation
HANDLEBAR SYSTEM:
Rigid
CHAIN BRAKE:
Optional
CLUTCH:
Centrifugal
DRIVE TYPE:
Direct
CONSTRUCTION:
Die cast magnesium
MAGNETO TYPE:
McCulloch flywheel breaker point system. Electronic ignition on units with serial prefix 12
CARBURETOR:
Walbro SDC type
MAJOR REPAIR KIT:
K10-SDC
MINOR REPAIR KIT:
D10-SDC
AIR FILTER SYSTEM:
Flocked wire screen
STARTER TYPE:
McCulloch automatic rewind on left side
OIL PUMP:
Automatic with manual override
OPERATING RPM:
IGNITION TIMING:
26 degrees before TDC
BREAKER POINT SETTING:
0.019 in. (0.48 mm)
FLYWHEEL/COIL AIR GAP:
0.011 to 0.015 in. (0.3 to 0.4 mm)
SPARK PLUG TYPE:
AC CS45T or AC CS42T
SPARK PLUG GAP:
0.025 in. (0.63 mm)
CRANKSHAFT MAIN BEARINGS:
Ball and caged needle roller
FUEL TANK CAPACITY:
1.5 U.S. Pints (710 ml)
FUEL OIL RATIO:
20:1
RECOMMENDED FUEL OCTANE:
Regular
MIX OIL SPECIFICATION:
McCulloch two-cycle chain saw mix oil
CHAIN PITCH:
3/8 in.
CHAIN TYPE:
McCulloch
BAR MOUNT PATTERN:
11 link
SHORTEST GUIDE BAR SUPPLIED:
16 in. (40 cm)
LONGEST GUIDE BAR SUPPLIED:
28 in. (71 cm)
COLOUR SCHEME:
McCulloch Yellow enamel with Black Starter housing
roostersgt
Addicted to ArboristSite
I'm not here to be the 029/290 defender. I'd be saying the same thing if someone were to have stated a much older, smaller, slower, less powerful and heavier saw like the mentioned Mac was quicker than a Husky 455/460 too. I'd have to see it to believe it was possible. That's likely why GTG are so popular. Bragging rights? Saw to saw comparrisons?
You'll just have to accept it like all the other disbelievers about Stihl's claimed HP ratings. If they weren't as listed, you can bet your farm Husky and Echo would be sueing the crap out of Stihl. They are competitors in the modern litigious age. I'm sure their attroneys and engineers have already tested them. Again, why don't you think Honda lists HP on their OPE anymore? Think lawsuit for overstated power by consumer and you'll be correct. Having run/own several modern mid 50'cc saws, I can tell you without a dyno it feels about right compared to a 044, Husky 455, MS260,028'S and 036 pro. They run right about in the middle for performance in my book.
cpr
Addicted to ArboristSite
...and the fact that McCulloch never published an output figure for their saws or kart motors, ever?
RandyMac
Stiff Member
roostersgt, you seem to be taking all this rather personally, get a grip.
Accept as fact that some vintage chainsaws are not as heavy or as slow as often projected.
Accept as fact that some vintage chainsaws are not as heavy or as slow as often projected.
Warped5
WingNut
Just a note on out litigious society ..
Within the last 12 months a huge class-action lawsuit was settled that addressed this very fact. A LARGE number of OPE and engine manufacturers were listed as defendants, Honda being just one.
My own first-hand interest was piqued when I started researching my John Deere mower with a Kawasaki engine. The model number and IPL remained unchanged over a period of years, but the horsepower increased.
Bottom line for me was that I got about $13 from the settlement.
roostersgt
Addicted to ArboristSite
Sometimes it's kind of difficult not to take things a little personal, especially when a few have suggested numbers I posted were pulled out of thin air. I'm real careful when I call people on what they've posted. Other don't seem to be as courteous for reasons unknown. Afterall, we're just discussing chainsaws.
RandyMac
Stiff Member
It is easy to post data skewed toward your point of view, many sites have flawed data that was lifted from sites with flawed data, perpetuating the flawed data.
roostersgt
Addicted to ArboristSite
I have not run across a single site listing a 290 as having anything less than 3.8 BHP, or weighing more or less than 13 lbs, or a Mac 10-10 series saw weighing less than 15.6 pounds (PHO) for any of the models in the series. Didn't "cherrypick" anything to try to bolster or support my point. If you've found anything different, please share the website by attaching a link. People's opinions regarding a saws power are not a substitute for readily available information. That a company still lists there rated power after the Honda et al,,, lawsuit attests their rating must be accurate, or they'd be easy prey for a costly and embarrassing lawsuit themselves.
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