Found a decent deal on an 044

[Bowtie]

I have found a sealer that for me works even better than Dirko. I have been using the John Deere gasket maker, its white, and available at any JD dealership for you rural minded boys.

It isnt cheap, but it works very well, and is impervious to gas and oil. JD uses it for oil pan, timing cover, water pump, etc gaskets. They dont even use gaskets in these applications, just that sealer, and it is great stuff.

 

[USMC0802]

Picked up Permatex Ultra Copper silicone gasket maker, Meguiar's Plastx, and some other odds and ends today to get this saw finished. The only I haven't been able to find is hemostats.

I put the tank handle back on, new impulse hose, and rings on the piston. I worked on some aluminum stock to seal up the exhaust port and a piece to go over the carb studs to seal the intake boot.

Taking a quick break to pick up a case of beer before the Phillies game starts and then I'll be back at it. I'll have to read up on using this gasket material and if there's anything I need to do with the rings before the cylinder goes over them (any mix or lube on them?).

Maybe I'll be able to fire this thing up this weekend.

 

[USMC0802]

I'm about as far as I can go before one last blast with the air compressor and getting the Permatex on. Wiring is back in, new plastics around the clutch that cover the chain brake are on. Found out my FIL has a pair of hemostats and I'm going to pick those up this evening for the fuel line.

Anyone have a write up for using a liquid gasket?

 

[pioneerguy600]

I'm about as far as I can go before one last blast with the air compressor and getting the Permatex on. Wiring is back in, new plastics around the clutch that cover the chain brake are on. Found out my FIL has a pair of hemostats and I'm going to pick those up this evening for the fuel line.

Anyone have a write up for using a liquid gasket?

Not sure about anyone having a write up for installing liquid gaskets but here is how I do it. I clean the base,where the cylinder bolts to the crankcase and the base of the cylinder with acetone or brake cleaner to get rid of all oil/grease etc. Once both surfaces are dry, I apply a thin coat to each and spread it out with my finger. Slide the cylinder down over the piston and rings, held in with a ring compressor and the piston supported on a split block. Once the cylinder covers the rings the compressor gets removed, push the cylinder down until it contacts the split block, remove the split block and snuggle the cylinder down to the base. Install the base bolts and torque them down, the gasket maker will be squeezed out until it is just a filler for the space between the cylinder and the case, probably less than a couple of thou. No need to let the Permatex to set up, by the time it takes me to install the rest or the running gear I usually just start them up and tune them. PS, don`t plug off the impulse port if it runs through the cylinder base.
Pioneerguy600

 

[USMC0802]

Not sure about anyone having a write up for installing liquid gaskets but here is how I do it. I clean the base,where the cylinder bolts to the crankcase and the base of the cylinder with acetone or brake cleaner to get rid of all oil/grease etc. Once both surfaces are dry, I apply a thin coat to each and spread it out with my finger. Slide the cylinder down over the piston and rings, held in with a ring compressor and the piston supported on a split block. Once the cylinder covers the rings the compressor gets removed, push the cylinder down until it contacts the split block, remove the split block and snuggle the cylinder down to the base. Install the base bolts and torque them down, the gasket maker will be squeezed out until it is just a filler for the space between the cylinder and the case, probably less than a couple of thou. No need to let the Permatex to set up, by the time it takes me to install the rest or the running gear I usually just start them up and tune them. PS, don`t plug off the impulse port if it runs through the cylinder base.
Pioneerguy600

Sounds good. I'm going to give the ring compressor a shot before putting Permatex on it to see how this goes. I have the ring compressor kit from Bailey's.

I want to give this thing one more blast with the air compressor before sealing it up.


EDIT: I'm not doing something right. I'm struggling getting the piston into the cylinder. I'm using the compressor and trying to get the cylinder over the piston and then slide the compressor down the piston to allow the cylinder to cover the rings...not working.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Sounds good. I'm going to give the ring compressor a shot before putting Permatex on it to see how this goes. I have the ring compressor kit from Bailey's.

I want to give this thing one more blast with the air compressor before sealing it up.


EDIT: I'm not doing something right. I'm struggling getting the piston into the cylinder. I'm using the compressor and trying to get the cylinder over the piston and then slide the compressor down the piston to allow the cylinder to cover the rings...not working.

If you know for sure your piston will fit up inside your cylinder then all you have to do is setup your piston ring compressor over the rings,but first make sure your rings are properly positioned in relationship to the ring stop pins. Make sure the compressor band is down a little from the top of the piston crown to allow the piston to start up inside the cylinder, keep the band squeezed tightly and gently push the cylinder down. The bottom of the cylinder is chamfered on the bore side so it should slide down easily, you can rock the cylinder slightly to help get it started on over the rings but go gently, not a big side to side rock! The piston skirt should be supported by a split block to keep it steady.

Pioneerguy600

 

[USMC0802]

Took another look and the top ring was on upside down. :censored:

Fixed that and it went right on. Now that I have it all together, intake boot in and everything, I wish I would have just hit it with the compressor and done this the first time and put the Permatex on. Oh well...

It's looking like a saw again.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Took another look and the top ring was on upside down. :censored:

Fixed that and it went right on. Now that I have it all together, intake boot in and everything, I wish I would have just hit it with the compressor and done this the first time and put the Permatex on. Oh well...

It's looking like a saw again.

Sounds good, keep us posted.
Pioneerguy600

 

[USMC0802]

Sounds good, keep us posted.
Pioneerguy600

How long after applying the Permatex do I need to wait to do a pressure/vacuum test?

I did the test tonight after tightening everything down and there is just the tiniest, hardly noticeable, but that's without a gasket on the jug and I'll probably put a piece of rubber between the aluminum and the intake boot to ensure that's actually sealed as well.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

I did the test tonight after tightening everything down and there is just the tiniest, hardly noticeable, but that's without a gasket on the jug and I'll probably put a piece of rubber between the aluminum and the intake boot to ensure that's actually sealed as well.

You should definitely have rubber between your aluminum piece and the ports and/or intake boot assembly for an appropriate seal when doing a leakdown test.

Sound like you're damned near there and ready to rock the bad boy.

Huge props for a great thread and what appears to be a killer job well done.

But....

Video, or it didn't happen!

Poge

 

[pioneerguy600]

How long after applying the Permatex do I need to wait to do a pressure/vacuum test?

I did the test tonight after tightening everything down and there is just the tiniest, hardly noticeable, but that's without a gasket on the jug and I'll probably put a piece of rubber between the aluminum and the intake boot to ensure that's actually sealed as well.

You can do that immediately, no need to wait, your leak is not likely under the cylinder, the seals, decomp, the sparkplug threads, exhaust & manifold blockers or impulse line are more likely areas for the leak. Soapy water time.
Pioneerguy600

 

[USMC0802]

You should definitely have rubber between your aluminum piece and the ports and/or intake boot assembly for an appropriate seal when doing a leakdown test.

Sound like you're damned near there and ready to rock the bad boy.

Huge props for a great thread and what appears to be a killer job well done.

But....

Video, or it didn't happen!

Poge

I'll get a video when it's done for the first time it fires up. It's almost there. Gasket tomorrow, if my 7 month old daughter will cooperate, then leak down test. If all is well there, I'll try to finish up the assembly before heading out to a picnic and then fire it up on Sunday.

You can do that immediately, no need to wait, your leak is not likely under the cylinder, the seals, decomp, the sparkplug threads, exhaust & manifold blockers or impulse line are more likely areas for the leak. Soapy water time.
Pioneerguy600

I'll get the rubber pieces under the aluminum on the intake boot and retry. There is rubber under the piece on the exhaust side.

24 hours long enough to wait after applying the gasket to run it?


I'm not all that impressed with the Meguiar's Plastx. The plastics are a bit improved, but it's nothing special and still sun bleached. I'm going to give it a couple more rubs with the Meguiar's and then I guess I'll start thinking about a light sanding and clear coat if I'm not making the desired progress.

 

[USMC0802]

Soapy water time. I put rubber under the aluminum and tightened everything down. Put a bit of grease on the threads of the spark plug and the plug for the decomp opening. Tiny leak on pressure and vacuum. Impulse hose is new, seals are new...the only place there isn't anything to seal is between the jug and case.

What's the next most likely place to have a leak after the oil seals?

Just doesn't seem right to worry about a leak when there isn't a seal between the cylinder and the jug...but I'm certainly not an expert at this.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Soapy water time. I put rubber under the aluminum and tightened everything down. Put a bit of grease on the threads of the spark plug and the plug for the decomp opening. Tiny leak on pressure and vacuum. Impulse hose is new, seals are new...the only place there isn't anything to seal is between the jug and case.

What's the next most likely place to have a leak after the oil seals?

Just doesn't seem right to worry about a leak when there isn't a seal between the cylinder and the jug...but I'm certainly not an expert at this.

Apply low air pressure to the engine instead of vacuum, then spray soapy water around all the leak prone areas, you will find your leak. If you have Permatex between the cylinder and base you have your seal right there, that is what the Permatex is for. I have done so many saws with Permatex for a sealer/gasket I couldn`t count them all and never had a leak in that area.

Pioneerguy600

 

[USMC0802]

Apply low air pressure to the engine instead of vacuum, then spray soapy water around all the leak prone areas, you will find your leak. If you have Permatex between the cylinder and base you have your seal right there, that is what the Permatex is for. I have done so many saws with Permatex for a sealer/gasket I couldn`t count them all and never had a leak in that area.

Pioneerguy600

I understand. I haven't applied the Permatex yet. I was just messing with the saw last night to see how easily the piston (with rings) went into the cylinder. I still need to put the gasket on the jug/case.

 

[oscar4883]

Don't worry about testing until you have the top end together. I use a permatex product as well and even though I have only about 25 or so saws under my belt, I have not seen it leak from the base because of the silicone. Pay attention to the seals and other dumb things like de-comp area and spark plug. You are doing the right thing by checking your work. Saves a lot of headaches later.

 

[USMC0802]

Don't worry about testing until you have the top end together. I use a permatex product as well and even though I have only about 25 or so saws under my belt, I have not seen it leak from the base because of the silicone. Pay attention to the seals and other dumb things like de-comp area and spark plug. You are doing the right thing by checking your work. Saves a lot of headaches later.

Air compressor just stopped running to fill up. As soon as my daughter is ready for a nap and I can hang out in the garage for a bit, I'll get this thing blown out one last time and then get the gasket on it. Should be ready to finish putting everything back together then.

Is 24 hours long enough wait time after applying the Permatex to start the saw?

 

[USMC0802]

Before and after pics for the Meguiar's Plastx:
Before:

After:

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Don't worry about testing until you have the top end together. Pay attention to the seals and other dumb things like de-comp area and spark plug....

.....and the MityVac connections themselves -- especially if you're using a coupler between the MityVac hose and the impulse line.

You should hold vac for 10+ minutes. To be completely thorough, turn the flywheel to reposition the crank in the seals and test again for another 10+ minutes. Do it again once more. Then do your pressure test.

And thanks for the review on the Plastx. Looks like some very fine sanding and some clearcoat may indeed yield more desirable results there.

Poge

 

[USMC0802]

.....and the MityVac connections themselves -- especially if you're using a coupler between the MityVac hose and the impulse line.

You should hold vac for 10+ minutes. To be completely thorough, turn the flywheel to reposition the crank in the seals and test again for another 10+ minutes. Do it again once more. Then do your pressure test.

And thanks for the review on the Plastx. Looks like some very fine sanding and some clearcoat may indeed yield more desirable results there.

Poge

I think the seals are good. I'm almost done with the first 10 minutes of vacuum and it's not moving at all. I just turned the flywheel and watched the needle move but return to it's original 8 lbs of vacuum.

I'll give the pressure test a check next. Apparently, having a gasket between the jug and case makes a difference.

If the press/vac test is good, probably safe to assume my gasket I made with the Permatex is good to go and I can start this thing up tomorrow or how long does the gaseket need to sit?

EDIT: Pressure test lost about .75 lbs over 10 minutes...good enough?