Home made log spliter

[sean donato]

22 gpm is way too much for an 18 hp motor. As a rule of thumb, it takes about 1 & 1/4 hp to make 1 gpm of flow at 2000 psi. Mathematically you need 26 hp to flow 22 gpm at 2000 psi. Right now you have LOTS of flow, but not enough horse power to make 2000 psi. The pump must be sized in relation to the motor. Too big a pump = lots of flow, but not enough pressure. Too small a pump = lots of pressure capability, but not enough flow. Decide what psi you want for your system, then plug in the numbers and do the math.

For a wood splitter, the best of both worlds is a two-stage pump. A large gpm pump for fast travel speed under light load, with a smaller pump stacked onto it to generate the high pressure needed for that last stage hard push.
https://www.calcunation.com/calculator/hydraulic-pump-horsepower.php

View attachment 1214152

It's a 2 stage pump, around 700 psi it kicks down to like 1gpm.

 

[Doug]

Hey,

I had a old log splitter give to me, the engine was shot so I bought a 13Hp brigs and stratton, and it is running a 22gpm pump. and small and medium logs work just fine for spitting, but when it comes to bigger logs it won't split, it doesn't have enough power. The hydraulic cylinder is only 16 old crappy one but it is going to be replaced eventually to a bigger. An then i adjusted the pressure on the pump and now it just bogs the engine down to the point it shuts it off. What am I doing wrong. I can upload a video and pictures of my log splitter. Is the engine to small for the pump or what. Thanks

Chris

YES, the engine is too small for the pump. 22 gpm is way too much for an 13 hp motor. As a rule of thumb, it takes about 1 & 1/4 hp to make 1 gpm of flow at 2000 psi. Mathematically you need 26 hp to flow 22 gpm at 2000 psi. Right now you have LOTS of flow, but not enough horse power to make 2000 psi. The pump must be sized in relation to the motor. Too big a pump = lots of flow, but not enough pressure. Too small a pump = lots of pressure capability, but not enough flow. Decide what psi you want for your system, then plug in the numbers and do the math.

For a wood splitter, the best of both worlds is a two-stage pump. A large gpm pump for fast travel speed under light load, with a smaller pump stacked onto it to generate the high pressure needed for that last stage hard push.
https://www.calcunation.com/calculator/hydraulic-pump-horsepower.php

 

[buzz sawyer]

22 gpm is way too much for an 18 hp motor. As a rule of thumb, it takes about 1 & 1/4 hp to make 1 gpm of flow at 2000 psi. Mathematically you need 26 hp to flow 22 gpm at 2000 psi. Right now you have LOTS of flow, but not enough horse power to make 2000 psi. The pump must be sized in relation to the motor. Too big a pump = lots of flow, but not enough pressure. Too small a pump = lots of pressure capability, but not enough flow. Decide what psi you want for your system, then plug in the numbers and do the math.

For a wood splitter, the best of both worlds is a two-stage pump. A large gpm pump for fast travel speed under light load, with a smaller pump stacked onto it to generate the high pressure needed for that last stage hard push.
https://www.calcunation.com/calculator/hydraulic-pump-horsepower.php

View attachment 1214152

That's exactly what I ran into on my first splitter attempt. Motor was about 8hp and the pump was off a backhoe - spare parts someone gave me. I'm running two stacked 2.5" cylinders, but the motor wouldn't even run with the pump attached. I'm now running a 7hp motor with a smaller single stage pump. Had a gauge on it at one point and I think it showed about 2000 - 2500 psi. Not the fastest but I haven't found anything it won't split yet. btw, I built it about 40 years ago and it still runs fine. Motor was replaced about ten years ago.

 

[Patrick62]

with a little assumption, here. I forget that the real world has single stage pumps, and engines sized for them.
With a log splitter (and other industrial applications) a 2 stage pump is assumed to be...

One of the best features is less violence when a troublesome knot separates.
Change that to a single stage pump, there would be flying firewood, and damaged operators!

 

[Doug]

It's a 2 stage pump, around 700 psi it kicks down to like 1gpm.

That does solve a lot of problems

 

[pdqdl]

The low volume/high pressure side is exactly 1/5th the high volume displacement, so when the 2nd stage kicks in, he's pumping only 4.4 GPM at up to 3000 psi.

He's got lots of leftover power to run that pump.

Has anyone ever tried running a two-stage pump backwards? I imagine it would pump, but perhaps not kick-down as needed.
If it isn't dropping the volume and kicking up the pressure correctly, you should make sure the inflow & outflow on the pump are done correctly!

 

[Patrick62]

long journey of try this, try that. fix this, fix that.
I know what the attraction of free or cheap stuff is. Been there, done that. I ran a vertical 8 hp for awhile on this. smaller pump, it worked, but was problematical with the start on the motor being a pos. Then ran a china diesel for awhile with a larger pump. Ran cheap, but kept being under powered, and noisy. Eventually got to where it would not start. That generated the thought of I am NOT going to be under powered again on this. A 15 would do it, but why not a 18 ? Sure it uses a little more fuel, but the darn thing runs so smooth now! and that 22 pump isn't a problem for it. I can stall it out on some pieces. At that point the beam flexes about 1/4 inch. 22 tons.


The self propelled feature of this machine is a lot of fun once a year I drive it in the local 4th parade...

 

[cledoux]

If you're planning on beefing that splitter up I'd just start from scratch. Beam is too small for a 5" cylinder, attachment points are the same, valve is pushing the limits @22gpm. (I'm saying this from experience, and destroying several versions of my current splitter)
It's expensive to get into larger higher flow hydraulics. Been slowly collecting parts for a mini processor over the past year or so, had most the steel for years now, actually using mic channel instead of I beam, but that's another story for the reason (s).
Any who, this still brings us back to the issue at hand. Without a basic pressure gauge it's impossible to tell what's going on. A simple T and 3k psi gauge before the inlet of the valve will give us a pretty good story Of what's going on

The best I can tell from the picture of your valve is it's an internal, non adjustable relief model.

ok thanks, yes steel these days is way to expensive. Hopefully it comes down in our next election.

 

[sean donato]

The low volume/high pressure side is exactly 1/5th the high volume displacement, so when the 2nd stage kicks in, he's pumping only 4.4 GPM at up to 3000 psi.

He's got lots of leftover power to run that pump.

Has anyone ever tried running a two-stage pump backwards? I imagine it would pump, but perhaps not kick-down as needed.
If it isn't dropping the volume and kicking up the pressure correctly, you should make sure the inflow & outflow on the pump are done correctly!

1/5 ratio isn't a hard or fast rule for log splitter pumps. Not certain where you came up with that. I checked specs on several pumps and came out all over the place. No clear ratio. Rugged made shows the same 6.7gpm high pressure side on both the 22 and 28 gpm pump.
can't comment on the running one backwards. Never tried it.

 

[pdqdl]

1/5 ratio isn't a hard or fast rule for log splitter pumps. Not certain where you came up with that. I checked specs on several pumps and came out all over the place. No clear ratio. Rugged made shows the same 6.7gpm high pressure side on both the 22 and 28 gpm pump.
can't comment on the running one backwards. Never tried it.

The OP told us what pump he had. I looked up the high-flow and the low-flow displacement, then did the math.
It is assuredly 5:1 volume reduction, presuming equal internal leakage & bypass.

I don't think I've ever disassembled a two-stage pump. Many gear and piston pumps can run backward and they just reverse the flow, although the inlet and outflow lines are usually not built for that. It occurred to me that if a two-stage pump was running backward, it might pump fine, and generate flow and pressure, but never step down to low pressure.

It's just a thought... I've never been there, nor seen that.

 

[norbert77]

New engine, does it run at rated speed? Got a way to check? Also it might run lean and just not give enough power?

 

[George G]

1. I don't see a relief valve adjustment on the directional control valve. If it dose not have one, that could be a problem. 2. You said you adjusted the pressure on the pump. There is no pressure adjustment on the pump. The only adjustment on the pump, would be the adjustment for the unloading valve. The unloading valve just controls the output of the high volume side of the pump. If you adjusted the unloading valve to high, it will stall the engine. There is no adjustment for the high pressure side of the pump on the pump. The high pressure should be adjusted on the directional control valve.

 

[sean donato]

1. I don't see a relief valve adjustment on the directional control valve. If it dose not have one, that could be a problem. View attachment 1216465 2. You said you adjusted the pressure on the pump. There is no pressure adjustment on the pump. The only adjustment on the pump, would be the adjustment for the unloading valve. The unloading valve just controls the output of the high volume side of the pump. If you adjusted the unloading valve to high, it will stall the engine. There is no adjustment for the high pressure side of the pump on the pump. The high pressure should be adjusted on the directional control valve.

90% of log splitter valves have an integral non adjustable relief valve. Usually built in right above the return port. With the pictures provided, it's hard to tell what style of valve it is for sure. the 2 faces of the valve we can see show a pretty generic splitter valve that would have this style of relief.

 

[Old-Feller]

Power is directly proportionate to cylinder size and relief setting. Most splitter valves have the relief built in. You didn't post a good enough picture of it to point out where it is. Irregardless, you're limited to the pressure the weakest component can take. Seeing it's an older unit, I would guess it's going to be a ~2000 psi system, possibly 2250 psi. Another note, the street 90s arnt really rated for high pressure either, another reason why I think it's a lower pressure system. Larger pumps have zero effect on the power, they just flow more oil. Making the cylinder retract and extend faster.
Longer cylinder will require more oil, you're already running a pretty little tank, one you may run out of oil with a longer cylinder, and 2 you're going to get the oil hot fast.
Anyway, here's a good calculator to figure out the force of the cylinder.
https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/cyl_calc.htm
You should have a pressure gauge teed in before the valve so you know what pressure the relief kicks in at. It's a baseline means to see how the system is operating. You'll also be able to tell when the pump kicks out into high pressure mode (what psi)
Without these basic things, and not being there in person, we're just guessing what your problem could be. If everything ends up checking out, you'll need a larger cylinder to generate more splitting force.

Sean is right, If the ram size is too small, That is what is limiting your power to split logs, That size motor and pump should have a 5 inch ram minimum. My splitter I built, Which is in my avatar has a 13 hp motor and a 22gpm 2 stage pump with 5 inch ram, I have never ran above half throttle and have not ran into a wet stringy burly log it couldn't split yet.

The Indian pump in pic lasted 2 seasons, It now has a Haldex 22gpm pump.

 

[Doug]

Sean is right, If the ram size is too small, That is what is limiting your power to split logs, That size motor and pump should have a 5 inch ram minimum. My splitter I built, Which is in my avatar has a 13 hp motor and a 22gpm 2 stage pump with 5 inch ram, I have never ran above half throttle and have not ran into a wet stringy burly log it couldn't split yet.

The Indian pump in pic lasted 2 seasons, It now has a Haldex 22gpm pump.

Very nice set up. I'm curious what your relief pressure is.

 

[Old-Feller]

Very nice set up. I'm curious what your relief pressure is.

Whatever the valve was set for at the factory, I do not have a pressure gauge, I may put one on someday, But it's got over 50 cords on the splitter and haven't needed one yet.

 

[sean donato]

With a 5" cylinder you don't have to run a high relief pressure 99% of the time. I have mine set to pop @2800 psi. Some splitter valves are set down as low 2250 psi, some even lower from the factory. Seen relief settings on real old splitters down at 1800 psi and a few newer high end splitters/ processors pushing 4k psi. No way of knowing without a gauge for sure.