Home made log spliter

[cledoux]

Hey,

I had a old log splitter give to me, the engine was shot so I bought a 13Hp brigs and stratton, and it is running a 22gpm pump. and small and medium logs work just fine for spitting, but when it comes to bigger logs it won't split, it doesn't have enough power. The hydraulic cylinder is only 16 old crappy one but it is going to be replaced eventually to a bigger. An then i adjusted the pressure on the pump and now it just bogs the engine down to the point it shuts it off. What am I doing wrong. I can upload a video and pictures of my log splitter. Is the engine to small for the pump or what. Thanks

Chris

 

[Patrick62]

I ran a 22gpm pump for years with a 15hp kohler, and when I re powered another splitter (same pump) I went with a V twin, I think it is 17hp... Seems likely that your 13 is "close". if you adjust the pressure a bit lower, it will work. but there in is the problem of not having enough oomph when you need it.
a 2 stage pump is what I hope you have! and that 13 should be enough to kick it to the second stage.
There is a adjustment on the pump for when it will drop out high speed, about 500 psi, and run the low speed to the max pressure (2250, if stock).

I run a 5 inch ram on mine, gets me a honest 22 tons

 

[sean donato]

I ran a 22gpm pump for years with a 15hp kohler, and when I re powered another splitter (same pump) I went with a V twin, I think it is 17hp... Seems likely that your 13 is "close". if you adjust the pressure a bit lower, it will work. but there in is the problem of not having enough oomph when you need it.
a 2 stage pump is what I hope you have! and that 13 should be enough to kick it to the second stage.
There is a adjustment on the pump for when it will drop out high speed, about 500 psi, and run the low speed to the max pressure (2250, if stock).

I run a 5 inch ram on mine, gets me a honest 22 tonsView attachment 1213759

Some pumps have a high low adjustment, not all. most pumps haven't for years now. Kick down should be 700 psi, not 500. It sounds more like his relief is too high. 13hp should be fine for 22gpm 2 stage pump, if he has a 2 stage.
I'm running a 16 gpm, 9hp, 2800 psi relief and pump kick down is the factory 700 psi. (Non adjustable) Same size 5" cylinder on my current home built splitter. Been operating fine for the past 10 years.

 

[cledoux]

I ran a 22gpm pump for years with a 15hp kohler, and when I re powered another splitter (same pump) I went with a V twin, I think it is 17hp... Seems likely that your 13 is "close". if you adjust the pressure a bit lower, it will work. but there in is the problem of not having enough oomph when you need it.
a 2 stage pump is what I hope you have! and that 13 should be enough to kick it to the second stage.
There is a adjustment on the pump for when it will drop out high speed, about 500 psi, and run the low speed to the max pressure (2250, if stock).

I run a 5 inch ram on mine, gets me a honest 22 tonsView attachment 1213759

it is a 13.50 briggs and stratton and this is the pump that i got for it

RYFT Hydraulic Log Splitter Pump 22GPM 2-Stage Gear Pump, HI/LO Gear Pump, Wood Splitter Pump 3000 PSI, 3600RPM Aluminum Log Splitters Pump for Log Splitters ​

 

[cledoux]

I ran a 22gpm pump for years with a 15hp kohler, and when I re powered another splitter (same pump) I went with a V twin, I think it is 17hp... Seems likely that your 13 is "close". if you adjust the pressure a bit lower, it will work. but there in is the problem of not having enough oomph when you need it.
a 2 stage pump is what I hope you have! and that 13 should be enough to kick it to the second stage.
There is a adjustment on the pump for when it will drop out high speed, about 500 psi, and run the low speed to the max pressure (2250, if stock).

I run a 5 inch ram on mine, gets me a honest 22 tonsView attachment 1213759

 

[cledoux]

I ran a 22gpm pump for years with a 15hp kohler, and when I re powered another splitter (same pump) I went with a V twin, I think it is 17hp... Seems likely that your 13 is "close". if you adjust the pressure a bit lower, it will work. but there in is the problem of not having enough oomph when you need it.
a 2 stage pump is what I hope you have! and that 13 should be enough to kick it to the second stage.
There is a adjustment on the pump for when it will drop out high speed, about 500 psi, and run the low speed to the max pressure (2250, if stock).

I run a 5 inch ram on mine, gets me a honest 22 tonsView attachment 1213759

Or can it also be my hydraulic tank, isn’t big enough I read on a website for the pump you need at least a 12 gallon tank.

Thanks

 

[sean donato]

Unless you're running the tank dry, your tank isn't the issue. This wouldnt cause the engine to stall. It would cause the pump to suck air and cavitate. The tank requirement is to keep the fluid from getting too hot. Your issues sounds like either an engine problem or a relief problem.

 

[cledoux]

Unless you're running the tank dry, your tank isn't the issue. This wouldnt cause the engine to stall. It would cause the pump to suck air and cavitate. The tank requirement is to keep the fluid from getting too hot. Your issues sounds like either an engine problem or a relief problem.

The engine is practically brand new, cause the problem is i can split really big round logs with it doesn't have enough power. Even if have the log on the one side and split it multiple times. maybe tonight i will attach a video on what is happening. but i will check the tank with a flash light to see how much fluid is in it. Its an old control valve, So i don't think has a relief valve on it, I maybe be wrong. i got it the log splitter for about 50 bucks and all i did was put a new engine on it and a pump. nothing else, but i am going to put a longer hydraulic cylinder

 

[sean donato]

Power is directly proportionate to cylinder size and relief setting. Most splitter valves have the relief built in. You didn't post a good enough picture of it to point out where it is. Irregardless, you're limited to the pressure the weakest component can take. Seeing it's an older unit, I would guess it's going to be a ~2000 psi system, possibly 2250 psi. Another note, the street 90s arnt really rated for high pressure either, another reason why I think it's a lower pressure system. Larger pumps have zero effect on the power, they just flow more oil. Making the cylinder retract and extend faster.
Longer cylinder will require more oil, you're already running a pretty little tank, one you may run out of oil with a longer cylinder, and 2 you're going to get the oil hot fast.
Anyway, here's a good calculator to figure out the force of the cylinder.
https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/cyl_calc.htm
You should have a pressure gauge teed in before the valve so you know what pressure the relief kicks in at. It's a baseline means to see how the system is operating. You'll also be able to tell when the pump kicks out into high pressure mode (what psi)
Without these basic things, and not being there in person, we're just guessing what your problem could be. If everything ends up checking out, you'll need a larger cylinder to generate more splitting force.

 

[cledoux]

Power is directly proportionate to cylinder size and relief setting. Most splitter valves have the relief built in. You didn't post a good enough picture of it to point out where it is. Irregardless, you're limited to the pressure the weakest component can take. Seeing it's an older unit, I would guess it's going to be a ~2000 psi system, possibly 2250 psi. Another note, the street 90s arnt really rated for high pressure either, another reason why I think it's a lower pressure system. Larger pumps have zero effect on the power, they just flow more oil. Making the cylinder retract and extend faster.
Longer cylinder will require more oil, you're already running a pretty little tank, one you may run out of oil with a longer cylinder, and 2 you're going to get the oil hot fast.
Anyway, here's a good calculator to figure out the force of the cylinder.
https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/cyl_calc.htm
You should have a pressure gauge teed in before the valve so you know what pressure the relief kicks in at. It's a baseline means to see how the system is operating. You'll also be able to tell when the pump kicks out into high pressure mode (what psi)
Without these basic things, and not being there in person, we're just guessing what your problem could be. If everything ends up checking out, you'll need a larger cylinder to generate more splitting force.

Here is the hydraulic valve that I have on it. I’m probably just going to start pre building one for base and just start buy a new cylinder, tank and valve. For now it works for the time being. But I would like to build a bad a$$ one in the future that would take on bigger longs. Cause that’s what basically what I have in my back yard that the tornado came and up rooted everything in the woods.

 

[Patrick62]

I see a whole laundry list of "not the best idea" on this machine.
Yeah, the tank really isn't big enough for continuous use
Galvanized elbos are a no-no. Not rated for the pressure.
22 gpm thru the speeco valve is pushing it, and it sure looks like small ports on the cylinder!

I lied, my splitter has a 18hp V twin on it, plenty for the 22 gpm pump.
My cylinder has 1/2 npt ports on it, and at the speed I am running it, shoving 20 gpm thru them warms the oil a bunch.
My tank holds 20+ gallons of oil, and after a couple hours it get a bit warm.
'
That sure looks like a 3 or maybe 3 1/2 inch cylinder on it. Kind of small for the size of rounds you are doing.
I will bet it extends and retracts fast tho.

 

[cledoux]

Power is directly proportionate to cylinder size and relief setting. Most splitter valves have the relief built in. You didn't post a good enough picture of it to point out where it is. Irregardless, you're limited to the pressure the weakest component can take. Seeing it's an older unit, I would guess it's going to be a ~2000 psi system, possibly 2250 psi. Another note, the street 90s arnt really rated for high pressure either, another reason why I think it's a lower pressure system. Larger pumps have zero effect on the power, they just flow more oil. Making the cylinder retract and extend faster.
Longer cylinder will require more oil, you're already running a pretty little tank, one you may run out of oil with a longer cylinder, and 2 you're going to get the oil hot fast.
Anyway, here's a good calculator to figure out the force of the cylinder.
https://www.baumhydraulics.com/images/calculators/cyl_calc.htm
You should have a pressure gauge teed in before the valve so you know what pressure the relief kicks in at. It's a baseline means to see how the system is operating. You'll also be able to tell when the pump kicks out into high pressure mode (what psi)
Without these basic things, and not being there in person, we're just guessing what your problem could be. If everything ends up checking out, you'll need a larger cylinder to generate more splitting force.

Here is the hydraulic valve that I have on it. I’m probably just going to start pre building one for base and just start buy a new cylinder, tank and valve. For now it works for the time being. But I would like to build a bad a$$ one in the future that would take on bigger longs. Cause that’s what basically what I have in my back yard that the tornado came and up rooted everything in the woods.

I see a whole laundry list of "not the best idea" on this machine.
Yeah, the tank really isn't big enough for continuous use
Galvanized elbos are a no-no. Not rated for the pressure.
22 gpm thru the speeco valve is pushing it, and it sure looks like small ports on the cylinder!

I lied, my splitter has a 18hp V twin on it, plenty for the 22 gpm pump.
My cylinder has 1/2 npt ports on it, and at the speed I am running it, shoving 20 gpm thru them warms the oil a bunch.
My tank holds 20+ gallons of oil, and after a couple hours it get a bit warm.
'
That sure looks like a 3 or maybe 3 1/2 inch cylinder on it. Kind of small for the size of rounds you are doing.
I will bet it extends and retracts fast tho.

I paid hardly nothing, got the engine for 100 bucks and I just want to get it going for now until I build a different one and plus I’m getting a different cylinder and plus a
Tank and hydraulic valve later on, but
Metal and other stuff isn’t cheap right now. I just by one thing at a time not all at once.

Any ideas on how I should plumb it and the hoses I think are 1/2inch ends

Thanks

 

[Patrick62]

to be perfectly honest and straight forward, if the pump is a 22pgm, then 3/4 hoses all the way would be ideal. Hard to find many cylinders with 3/4 inch or there abouts ports on them. Maybe have to stay at 1/2 inch there...
according to the experts, the tank should match the GPM of the pump. Experts...
For now, run what you have, and turn the pressure down on the pump make it easier for it to drop into the low speed stage.

when changing everything around, get rid of the galv elbos. And with that high volume, 90's are to be avoided anyway.
Think about it. the thing is moving a bathtub of hydraulic oil every minute. that is a substantial flow!
a 4 inch bore cylinder would be a nice hotrod splitter, and if your beam could take it (and your bank account)
a 5 inch bore cylinder would be very nice. that is what I run. ok speed, and plenty of tonnage.

I like cheap splitters too, and have had to modify things a bit, or call them parts for other creations.

 

[cledoux]

to be perfectly honest and straight forward, if the pump is a 22pgm, then 3/4 hoses all the way would be ideal. Hard to find many cylinders with 3/4 inch or there abouts ports on them. Maybe have to stay at 1/2 inch there...
according to the experts, the tank should match the GPM of the pump. Experts...
For now, run what you have, and turn the pressure down on the pump make it easier for it to drop into the low speed stage.

when changing everything around, get rid of the galv elbos. And with that high volume, 90's are to be avoided anyway.
Think about it. the thing is moving a bathtub of hydraulic oil every minute. that is a substantial flow!
a 4 inch bore cylinder would be a nice hotrod splitter, and if your beam could take it (and your bank account)
a 5 inch bore cylinder would be very nice. that is what I run. ok speed, and plenty of tonnage.

I like cheap splitters too, and have had to modify things a bit, or call them parts for other creations.

This is what I found on the internet. Yikes, well I guess I'm going to need a bigger platform on wheels, This gets me by for now it was working good last, but i think that tree was still slighting green, cause the other wood i was splitting (oak) had no problem) lol


A 5 inch bore cylinder is recommended for a 22 GPM pump. Larger cylinder bores can provide more force, while smaller bores can cycle faster.




When choosing a hydraulic cylinder for a 22 GPM pump, you can also consider the following:

• Fluid reservoir: The reservoir should have a capacity of at least 12 gallons to allow for sufficient cooling. The reservoir should also not be below the pump to ensure a sufficient flow of fluid.
• Suction-side filtration: The filtration should be no finer than 150 microns

 

[cledoux]

and thanks for the help, much appreciated

 

[sean donato]

If you're planning on beefing that splitter up I'd just start from scratch. Beam is too small for a 5" cylinder, attachment points are the same, valve is pushing the limits @22gpm. (I'm saying this from experience, and destroying several versions of my current splitter)
It's expensive to get into larger higher flow hydraulics. Been slowly collecting parts for a mini processor over the past year or so, had most the steel for years now, actually using mic channel instead of I beam, but that's another story for the reason (s).
Any who, this still brings us back to the issue at hand. Without a basic pressure gauge it's impossible to tell what's going on. A simple T and 3k psi gauge before the inlet of the valve will give us a pretty good story Of what's going on

The best I can tell from the picture of your valve is it's an internal, non adjustable relief model.

 

[Patrick62]

It looks like someone took an old didlier splitter, and re-configured it to a taller frame.
it that is the case, then a 5 or 6 hp engine, and a 11 or 13 gpm pump and it would be just happy!

Building a splitter the way YOU like it, is fun!

 

[sean donato]

Thinking about it, before I built my splitter I borrowed a friend's old Montgomery Ward splitter, just as you described, 5hp Briggs engine, was a pretty little cylinder on it. Always had issues splitting larger/long rounds with it. At the time I could raid a local scrap yard for pennies on the dollar for steel, made perfect sense to build a splitter back then. It's been revamped since these pictures, the table is bigger/ longer now, and at the same height as the beam. Which will bow pretty bad if I get into something real nasty. But, we're on year 11, processing 20+ cord a year between my house, dad and my younger brothers place.

 

[pdqdl]

Unless you're running the tank dry, your tank isn't the issue. This wouldnt cause the engine to stall. It would cause the pump to suck air and cavitate. The tank requirement is to keep the fluid from getting too hot. Your issues sounds like either an engine problem or a relief problem.

There is a third or 4th possibility, too.

Some (rarely) log splitters develop a bind when under a heavy load. The extra pressure on the wedge/pusher cocks sideways and resists further travel. Grease on the slides might help.

Similar things can happen inside the cylinder, but that would be quite unusual. When cylinders fail internally, they usually bypass at a certain amount of pressure. That will usually mimic a system relief valve that is set too low. What you will see is an engine and pump loading down some, but not enough to split the wood.