Homelite Chainsaws

[67L36Driver]

The gear drive deal.

I think you fellas are missing the point. With a gear reduction you don't need more clutch. The advantage of a gear drive is you can pull a much longer bar and/or a larger (cutter size) chain.

Load that pup with a 24" and .404 for example.


The seal deal:

Most every saw I've had apart/back together has used single lip (to the inside) with garter spring. Double lip is fine but not really necessary.

 

[watsonr]

I think you fellas are missing the point. With a gear reduction you don't need more clutch. The advantage of a gear drive is you can pull a much longer bar and/or a larger (cutter size) chain.

Load that pup with a 24" and .404 for example.


The seal deal:

Most every saw I've had apart/back together has used single lip (to the inside) with garter spring. Double lip is fine but not really necessary.

Was waiting for someone to say it wasn't normal, considering how many of these are around, I kind of knew it was meant to be just 3 shoes in the back of my head. Also, Aaron didn't mess with the clutch as he said he only did a fuel system service and cleaned the saw up. Also why I said it needed a bigger bar. It currently has .404 on it now with a 16" bar, its going to get a 24" bar and new .404..:msp_biggrin: and should pull that well. I have some semi-chisel chain that will look right at home on a nice roller nose bar!

 

[fossil]

need to see if i've got this right. you're saying that the skf 6119 (or skf 6120, or national 253747) fits both the pto and flywheel sides? even though there're two different OE part numbers?

I don't know on the IPL number but the way I understood it is some seals have one lip and some have two one for impulse side of pressure and the other for vacuum. The double lip seal is the better one to get from what I understand but I think ether one will work. Provided the part numbers listed cross to the ones needed.

Yes same both sides. The 6120 is a single lip, the other two are double. The outer lip is not a sealing lip but rather a dust seal to keep abrasive debris out. The Pioneer seal for the large P series is a single lip. I'm not sure that you would ever need it on a wood saw. Concrete saws may be another story.
Those seals are used in a number of Homelites and also Poulans. I used the National 253747 seals for no specific reason but they are a little more expensive than the others.

 

[jerrycmorrow]

Yes same both sides. The 6120 is a single lip, the other two are double. The outer lip is not a sealing lip but rather a dust seal to keep abrasive debris out. The Pioneer seal for the large P series is a single lip. I'm not sure that you would ever need it on a wood saw. Concrete saws may be another story.
Those seals are used in a number of Homelites and also Poulans. I used the National 253747 seals for no specific reason but they are a little more expensive than the others.

thanks. seems weird that someone, even homelite, would have different part numbers for the same exact seal. wonder what's the story behind that?
i bet the homelite crew used to have monday morning meetings where the prime topic of discussion was "how can we weird out the future restorer's of our saws"

 

[fossil]

thanks. seems weird that someone, even homelite, would have different part numbers for the same exact seal. wonder what's the story behind that?
i bet the homelite crew used to have monday morning meetings where the prime topic of discussion was "how can we weird out the future restorer's of our saws"

Without having one of each in your hand to measure, It's possible they may have had a different seal depth dimension.
It's also a heck of a lot easier these days with computer systems to keep track of common size and PN's these days.

 

[Eccentric]

thanks. seems weird that someone, even homelite, would have different part numbers for the same exact seal. wonder what's the story behind that?
i bet the homelite crew used to have monday morning meetings where the prime topic of discussion was "how can we weird out the future restorer's of our saws"

Jerry I poured through a dozen or more IPL's when figuring that seal question out. Homelite used different #'s for the seals in several different IPL's for the same model. IIRC there were three or four different Homelite #'s that were used in different applications (saw model, and L or R side of the saw) at various times. Seemed to be no rhyme or reason as to the 'musical seals' thing.

I also found a few SKF seal interchange charts and utilities that matched the 6119 and 6120 to all of the Homelite #'s in question. I think Tim and Shane may have hit it on the head. May have been a slight different in seal seating depth and/or a double lip/single lip thing...............where they'd originally intended one particular seal as the 'best fit' for a particular application...............................but for practical purposes the other ones would work just fine.

 

[Eccentric]

Was waiting for someone to say it wasn't normal, considering how many of these are around, I kind of knew it was meant to be just 3 shoes in the back of my head. Also, Aaron didn't mess with the clutch as he said he only did a fuel system service and cleaned the saw up. Also why I said it needed a bigger bar. It currently has .404 on it now with a 16" bar, its going to get a 24" bar and new .404..:msp_biggrin: and should pull that well. I have some semi-chisel chain that will look right at home on a nice roller nose bar!

It could well be that the XL-15 (3.3ci flat reed saw) used 3 shoes while the Super XL-15 (3.55ci pyramid reed saw with more power) used six shoes. Homelite did that very thing with some of the C-series saws. C-5's often had three shoes (on a six shoe clutch hub), and put six shoes on the larger C-7 and C-9 saws. It's mentioned in some of the IPL's...

 

[jerrycmorrow]

Without having one of each in your hand to measure, It's possible they may have had a different seal depth dimension.
It's also a heck of a lot easier these days with computer systems to keep track of common size and PN's these days.

Jerry I poured through a dozen or more IPL's when figuring that seal question out. Homelite used different #'s for the seals in several different IPL's for the same model. IIRC there were three or four different Homelite #'s that were used in different applications (saw model, and L or R side of the saw) at various times. Seemed to be no rhyme or reason as to the 'musical seals' thing.

I also found a few SKF seal interchange charts and utilities that matched the 6119 and 9120 to all of the Homelite #'s in question. I think Tim and Shane may have hit it on the head. May have been a slight different in seal seating depth and/or a double lip/single lip thing...............where they'd originally intended one particular seal as the 'best fit' for a particular application...............................but for practical purposes the other ones would work just fine.

aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! there i go trying to be logical again.
another wrinkle in the homelite puzzle. if their old saws weren't such good products i'd just give em up. but alas, no sense cutting my nose off to spite my face. just got to deal with it. okay. okay. i'm alright now.
until the next episode
thanks guys.

 

[sawnami]

February 1964 IPL for an XL-15

 

[67L36Driver]

When you are a chainsaw company and your are building tens of thousands of units of each model, you can have seals, bearings, fasteners etc. made any way you want.

The salesman with your account will not say no and lose an order. (a lot like 'hoes' they is)

 

[Eccentric]

February 1964 IPL for an XL-15

And there it is. Thanks for posting that Steve. Six clutch shoes. Wonder why three were gone from what looked like a saw not used enough to have had worn out (and therefore replaced) clutch shoes. Strange.

What really surprises me is that only a 3/8-8 sprocket and 3/8 pitch chain are mentioned in the XL-15 and Super XL-15 specs and IPLs...................and yet Randy's saw had a .404-.058G bar and his gear drive clutch cover (from yet another of these rare saws) has a .404 sprocket.

I just now checked my 1965 IPL for the XL-Automatic Direct Drive, XL-Automatic Gear Drive, and Super XL saws. That IPL specifies 3 clutch shoes for the XL-Automatic and Super XL (both direct drive), and 6 shoes for the XL-Automatic Gear Drive. Same shoe part # for all of 'em. Also...............my IPL lists the 3/8-8 sprocket as standard for the XL-Automatic Gear Drive, with the .404 sprocket (too blurry to read the tooth count on the IPL) being optional. Bingo! There's the answer. The .404 sprocket was available for these saws, but after they were 'replaced' by the 2nd generation versions of them (or at least some time after the brochures and IPL's were printed). Was only a year or so between printings....


Also interesting (at least to me) that the .404 sprocket isn't even mentioned in the XL-15 or Super XL-15 IPL's or brochures..................and yet both of the saws (which came from opposite ends of the country) that led to Randy's complete XL-15 gear drive were set up for .404. Also interesting that his saw has a .404-.058G bar while the XL-Automatic Gear Drive mentions .404-.063G chain.

 

[watsonr]

And there it is. Thanks for posting that Steve. Six clutch shoes. Wonder why three were gone from what looked like a saw not used enough to have had worn out (and therefore replaced) clutch shoes. Strange.

What really surprises me is that only a 3/8-8 sprocket and 3/8 pitch chain are mentioned in the XL-15 and Super XL-15 specs and IPLs...................and yet Randy's saw had a .404-.058G bar and his gear drive clutch cover (from yet another of these rare saws) has a .404 sprocket.

I just now checked my 1965 IPL for the XL-Automatic Direct Drive, XL-Automatic Gear Drive, and Super XL saws. That IPL specifies 3 clutch shoes for the XL-Automatic and Super XL (both direct drive), and 6 shoes for the XL-Automatic Gear Drive. Same shoe part # for all of 'em. Also...............my IPL lists the 3/8-8 sprocket as standard for the XL-Automatic Gear Drive, with the .404 sprocket (too blurry to read the tooth count on the IPL) being optional. Bingo! There's the answer. The .404 sprocket was available for these saws, but after they were 'replaced' by the 2nd generation versions of them (or at least some time after the brochures and IPL's were printed). Was only a year or so between printings....


Also interesting (at least to me) that the .404 sprocket isn't even mentioned in the XL-15 or Super XL-15 IPL's or brochures..................and yet both of the saws (which came from opposite ends of the country) that led to Randy's complete XL-15 gear drive were set up for .404. Also interesting that his saw has a .404-.058G bar while the XL-Automatic Gear Drive mentions .404-.063G chain.

Something else to add. I picked up a second sprocket for this saw some time ago as it popped up on feepay and i grabbed it. It's a 3/8 sprocket and I've got a nice, period correct hard nosed bar in 24". I've also got a General bar in hard nose with the stamp still on the bar in 30" and now perplexed as to what I want to mount.

24" with .404 semi-chisel chain or the 30" with 3/8? It should pull both those without issue.

Lastly, I've got a near perfect XL-12 from the first run with all black letters.......... in blue and white... now what? Matching paint for the saw and drive even thought it doesn't say XL-15 would still be something you could have seen in the day.

I ran the saw last night again, its a beast with a 16"! I've got a G-70 running 1/2" on a 30" with no issues..... the last gear drive made by McCulloch. Is this the last gear drive made by Homelite by chance?

 

[Eccentric]

Something else to add. I picked up a second sprocket for this saw some time ago as it popped up on feepay and i grabbed it. It's a 3/8 sprocket and I've got a nice, period correct hard nosed bar in 24". I've also got a General bar in hard nose with the stamp still on the bar in 30" and now perplexed as to what I want to mount.

24" with .404 semi-chisel chain or the 30" with 3/8? It should pull both those without issue.

Lastly, I've got a near perfect XL-12 from the first run with all black letters.......... in blue and white... now what? Matching paint for the saw and drive even thought it doesn't say XL-15 would still be something you could have seen in the day.

I ran the saw last night again, its a beast with a 16"! I've got a G-70 running 1/2" on a 30" with no issues..... the last gear drive made by McCulloch. Is this the last gear drive made by Homelite by chance?

I believe that the XL-Automatic Gear Drive is the last small gear drive made by Homelite (and it was made in 1965 and for a short time afterwards). They made the Wiz series gear drives, the mighty 3100G, and the XP-1100/XP-1130/1130G gear drives long after that. The 3100G was made until 1972 or so IIRC. The Super XP-1130G and Super Wiz 80 were made until 1986 or so, going by Homelite sales books.

 

[rarefish383]

I had a few minutes today, so I went out and pulled the plug on the Super Wiz 77, it had a CJ8 in it. Flipped the switch on and pulled it over, it had a good spark, put a shot of mix in the tube that goes from the carb to the air box, put one foot through the handle and the other one on top of the saw, and pulled. On the first pull it popped. I pulled it over ten or twelve more times and you could see mist coming out of the muffler, but it never popped again. May have flooded it. That was enough for me for one day. Are the proper plugs available, or can I use a CJ8? The muffler is missing, I have an old junker Zip and it looks like the same mount. I remember pulling the muffler off of the zip, but it is AWOL. When I find it, will it work on the WIZ? Thanks, Joe.

 

[homelitejim]

I had a few minutes today, so I went out and pulled the plug on the Super Wiz 77, it had a CJ8 in it. Flipped the switch on and pulled it over, it had a good spark, put a shot of mix in the tube that goes from the carb to the air box, put one foot through the handle and the other one on top of the saw, and pulled. On the first pull it popped. I pulled it over ten or twelve more times and you could see mist coming out of the muffler, but it never popped again. May have flooded it. That was enough for me for one day. Are the proper plugs available, or can I use a CJ8? The muffler is missing, I have an old junker Zip and it looks like the same mount. I remember pulling the muffler off of the zip, but it is AWOL. When I find it, will it work on the WIZ? Thanks, Joe.

No actual muffler on these saws, more of a deflector and spark screen. Spark plug might need changing as I have had them spark nice while it is sitting on the cylinder checking for spark but falter under compression.

 

[rarefish383]

No actual muffler on these saws, more of a deflector and spark screen. Spark plug might need changing as I have had them spark nice while it is sitting on the cylinder checking for spark but falter under compression.

Maybe that's why I couldn't find it, was looking for something bigger, thanks Joe.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

Since I've replaced the engine in this saw (everything but the carburetor) and it still does the same thing, I'm betting the problem is in the carb. One day this week I need to go see a friend of mine who has a bunch of Homelite parts and see if he'll sell me a carb to fit it.

I picked up another carb today, soaking it a little in carb cleaner then I'll slap it on the Super 2 tomorrow. If it still doesn't run like it should I won't have a clue, which is what a lot of people say about me anyway...

 

[jerrycmorrow]

I picked up another carb today, soaking it a little in carb cleaner then I'll slap it on the Super 2 tomorrow. If it still doesn't run like it should I won't have a clue, which is what a lot of people say about me anyway...

opcorn:

 

[leecopland]

10$ 35sl

Well I finally got my 35 going. Thanks to a kit of tuneup parts from a sponsor 'chainsawr'. Everything needed including the intake boot. After getting it all back together put some new fuel in and started to pull it over. Many pulls later ( long fuel line from tank to carb) it fired off, finally settled down to an idle. Still needs some tuning, in wood preferably. Not home at present will try to add some photos later. It feels pretty pokey for 57cc!

Regards,

Lee

 

[rocketnorton]

Well I finally got my 35 going. Thanks to a kit of tuneup parts from a sponsor 'chainsawr'. Everything needed including the intake boot. After getting it all back together put some new fuel in and started to pull it over. Many pulls later ( long fuel line from tank to carb) it fired off, finally settled down to an idle. Still needs some tuning, in wood preferably. Not home at present will try to add some photos later. It feels pretty pokey for 57cc!

Regards,

Lee

pretty happy w/ one I got....