How much oil to add to racing fuel

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Chris,
As long as the saw has an original head, you should be able to run the saw at Webster Springs. I'll double check with my father and Bill Cogar to make sure, but I think the olny requirements are that the saw has to be a production style saw with an original head.

Bow saw will never happen. We've only got one show in the entire state that has a bowsaw event and it's one cut on a 6x6. I hate bow sawing. It really hurts the my elbows. Wahhhhh.

Dan,
I went to Bath, is that the show you're referring to as Mackeyville? I also went to Boonville. Just curious. I look forward to doing some more of the NYSLA shows next year as my misses enjoys the women's events.


All the best,
Jamie

 

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Ed et. al,
The pictures of my carb I'm talking about can be seen at www.axemensnews.com . The website is a work in progress, so please bear with me, I'll have it completed sometime during the fall. To see more pictures of the carb, simply click on the picture.

I've ordered the smaller needle and seat and after taking it apart last night, I think I can successfully change the part. I jokingly liken this to asking a janitor to perform heart surgery as I'm wayyyyy under qualified to be working on such a sophisticated piece of machinery.

All the best,
Jamie

 

[ehp]

Jamie i have seen your pictures , pretty easy job for you , as long as you beat Bolstad , i am going to call you cause it is easier for me over the phone than trying to tell you over the computer

 

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Tis scary for the those that have never really messed with these types of machinery. I look forward to the call. I hope the pictures explained a lot.

All the best,
Jamie

 

[bwalker]

Jamie, What are the rules regarding fuel in the competitions you run in?

 

[ehp]

zero, no pressuered tanks , so nitrous is out,
1 cyl. 1 carb.
gas , alcohol , any fuel is ok

 

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Ed knows all in regards to hotsaws and how they work. I just spent the past hour putting my new needle and seat in my saw. It wasn't as complicated as I thought. Now I just need to get it dialed in. Yahooo.... if I can get it to make three cuts in an average time I'll be stoked. I can figure it out over the winter.

All the best,
Jamie

 

[ccicora]

Jamie,
There plenty of saws this past year with cut off heads. Two that come to mind were 046's. One was a Marcel the other Paul P. had. I also remeber a 181 and 281 that had head work. Boy they cut preaty good for mufflers. So please let me know the rules on this. I'd hate to place and then half to give it up.

Later,
Chris

 

[husky394]

If I remember correctly, the printed out rules that came with my entrys have stated: "we will accept a split head, but the bottom must be origional." or something to that effect. I don't remember if that was just in open or if was in stock appearing too.

Chuck

 

[rmihalek]

To quote EHP "zero, no pressuered tanks , so nitrous is out,
1 cyl. 1 carb.
gas , alcohol , any fuel is ok"

So, I guess my original contribution to this thread is still valid! Anyone ever add propylene oxide to race saw fuel?

Arden, your Axemen.com site is cool. Great pictures of the hotsaw. I like that see-through float bowl: wish I had one of those when I was racing dirt bikes. Can you post some pictures of the starter? I always wondered what type of machining needed to be done to get the starter cord set-up?

What's the pin count on that sprocket?! Looks like a 30 pin or something!

 

[ehp]

Chris most places want you to use a chainsaw jug on top so that is why they say oem parts cause that way no Go kart or other type of parts make it into the saws, 99 % of the saws have split head,


Jamie do you have time to try it before Saturday, cause there is still time to dail it in better

 

[ehp]

As far as P Oxide, yes alot have tried it , it works but what we have found with it is once you open the bottle of it , and the air fits it , P Oxide starts lossing it power so unless you use all of it right then it lesses its power and changes the jetting on the motor so hard to keep up with it, Nitro methane is alot easier to keep jetted and makes more power

putting the pull cord on a saw like that is alot easier than it may look , just some metal and a lathe

the gear is only 12 tooth cause i asked him , but 1/2 pitch chain so the gear is close to 3 1/2 inches in daimeter

 

[Arden Cogar Jr.]

Got everything to run last night. Made three cuts and it screamed at the end. So much so that it wouldn't shut off. I called Ed and he thought it might be the switch or one of the cutoffs, he then sent me a message that it might be lean, so I richened it and it came up perfectly. Sweeetttttt. I now have confidence that I can make three cuts in less than my customary 39 seconds.

Chris, the rules at Webster have never really been written. It's in my Dad's, my cousin Bill's, my cousin Paul's, and my head. We have very little formal written rules. I'll double check, but maybe there's been a lax on the split head requirement. I remember it being an issue when they first came out, but once everyone realized there was little difference between the two (except for one saw that happened to win - yep, that's when you get noticed).

Bob, I'll see if I can get some pictures of the coil and stater. I bought an extra coil and stater just to be extra safe.

Thanks for answering Ed. I'm on a 12 tooth with the hopes of someday moving up to 13 tooth. I want to master the saw before I become a master sawyer. I've been told that you can't press as much with a 13 or 14 tooth; however, i doubt my chains are good enough to justify the extra chain speed and my, for lack of better term, crappy operator-ship. But thank the lords above, I'm getting better.

I'm going to make some cuts again tonight and play with the high need and the lectron to see if I can make it a bit more responsive. I still feel like a janitor performing heart surgery. Scary.........:alien:

All the best,
Jamie

 

[Al Smith]

Hey,axe man

Sorry.I didn't recognize the name,before I saw a picture.You did a fine job in Lima,Last Saturday,With that downpour of rain we got,I don't think there is a frog left in Allen county,that didn't drown{areas reported up to 4" in 20 minutes]Who was the chopper that had the block come apart?Are you going to Nelsonville ,in oct?Last but not least,welcome to AS.

 

[ehp]

good to here Jamie, what kind of threw me off base was you made 3 cuts and it didnot die , normally if it is to lean it just dies in the cut, so that is why i was looking for a switch problem,
and the only time that i have had a rotax scream and not come back down to idle was when i got a air stopage in the carb, boy if you run one of those BN style carbs out of fuel be ready for it when you fire it back up , and you are now running a float bowl type carb so that would not be a problem.
but it does not matter as long as it works right

 

[jimbo1490]

Oil and fuel

My first post. Great forum BTW! As most of you probably know, nitromethane will not mix with gasoline. But a very similar substance, nitropropane, will mix perfectly. Circle track had an article a few years back on using NP in cheater fuels. Like it's brother, NM, it works but is tricky to use. A little too much and detonation occurs. And to be clear we are not talking about annoying ping or even burned piston kind of detonation but exploding engine catastrophe type of detonation. Still, if you experiment cautiously you can come up with a dilution ratio that works. The power gains are said to be awesome!
I have raced many two stroke motorcycles using Bel Ray MC-1 synthetic oil at 64:1. I have used it in every two stroke I have owned from Merc outboards to Husky CR250, various Maicos and Jap bikes and Jonsereds saws, and a giant scale RC with 64cc Zenoa motor. It works great and makes more power than other oils I have used such as Klotz, Spectro and others. Never seen an oil related failure with this product.

Jimbo

 

[bwalker]

How do you know mc1 makes more power?

 

[jimbo1490]

With my race day bikes it was obvious; you could feel the difference. With the Giant scale RC it was easily measured by the different prop pitch/RPM. I should note that I am comparing to other 'race' oils, none of which recommended ratios as lean as I ran, namely 64:1. Klotz and Golden Spectro recommend between 32 and 40:1 IIRC. Those other oils are based at least partially on castor oil, which lubricates by a different mechanism than mineral or synthetic based oils, thus the richer ratios. Now everyone seems to have a 50:1 oil for sale. But MC-1 was available back in the 70's and offered as a race oil from the get go. The reason leaner ratios make more power is pretty simple, I think; oil don't burn too good 8^]

Jimbo

 

[bwalker]

FWIW Mac authored a sae paper which conluded that more oil in the mix made more power. I have found mc-1 to be very dirty burning. Especially with power valve engines.

 

[ehp]

I mix nitro methane in gas , never had a problem , all the fuel numbered 113- 5 or 113-10 ,113-15 and 113-20 are all mixes to use in high test gas, the 113 number is the oil type and the last number is the amount of nitro, alot of people say nitro will not mix with gas , it is not the gas that is the problem it is the oil
as far as oil ratio everyone that runs 11026 or 12026 saw race fuel is at 6% of the gallon is oil, so roughly 16.5 to 1