How should I handle this? Ebay saw dilemma
- Thread starter dieseldave
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Maybe b/c they're either for parts or not working. As such they'd be properly listed. This wasn't such a case. Neither does saying "running saw for parts" add clarity. To the contrary, it muddies the waters unless yer trying to say it's "a bit rough," "on its last leg," etc., and in which case then why not just say as much? This hiding behind boilerplate or canned language doesn't serve anybody, it can only be a detriment to clear and honest communication, and there are still people even on eBay who manage to describe what they're selling w/o defaulting to (or hiding behind) prefabricated monikers that end up sounding like disclaimers. In fact, when I see such sterile speech I steer clear and look for sellers who give specific declarations.
Honestly, I worry about this trending toward Orwell's warnings about dumbed-down speech, and how people who are hearing less content think they're hearing more of a guarantee or assurance b/c it has some ring of "officialness" to it after they've heard it reduced and repeated a hundred times and start salivating like Pavlov's dogs. Next we'll be thinking in terms of Chomsky's "colorless green ideas sleep[ing] furiously."
Honestly, I worry about this trending toward Orwell's warnings about dumbed-down speech, and how people who are hearing less content think they're hearing more of a guarantee or assurance b/c it has some ring of "officialness" to it after they've heard it reduced and repeated a hundred times and start salivating like Pavlov's dogs. Next we'll be thinking in terms of Chomsky's "colorless green ideas sleep[ing] furiously."
I think some people sell for parts just to cover themselves from liability. I try to look closely at the pictures, and read the description carefully, and I don't hesitate to ask the seller any questions. But, I've bought 4 saws off eBay. Only one of them was as described, and one was total junk. I have come to the conclusion that most people are dishonest and bid accordingly.
And there's the rub...you've hit the nail on the head. There are words to describe the nature of the item, and words to describe the nature of the transaction, and where these are clear its very very seldom that any court would even look any further into the nature of the bargain. Just say what the saw is and what the terms are. Nothing more nor less will affect liability. It also saves you from thinking you have to sell yourself short just to complete a transaction...a good saw should be stated accordingly, and sold as-is when b/t private parties. And absent evidence of fraud or misrepresentation, there's not a damned thing eBay should have to say on the matter, especially when even the courts won't go there.
Last week I bought a 1956 radial arm saw--a classic--from my neighbor. He wanted $50, I said no, $75 is more fair. I've since seen two identical saws on eBay, one for $750 and one for $900, yet if you go to this saw's forum (it has its own), you'll see that typical askings are f/ $100 to $150 cuz there were so many made. Should eBay jump in here? Hell no, otherwise the folks selling Jesus on toast or Kim Kardashian's undies wouldn't be able to peddle their wares.
Last week I bought a 1956 radial arm saw--a classic--from my neighbor. He wanted $50, I said no, $75 is more fair. I've since seen two identical saws on eBay, one for $750 and one for $900, yet if you go to this saw's forum (it has its own), you'll see that typical askings are f/ $100 to $150 cuz there were so many made. Should eBay jump in here? Hell no, otherwise the folks selling Jesus on toast or Kim Kardashian's undies wouldn't be able to peddle their wares.
IDK, the more I read all the replies the more I think about how I would contact an eBay rep ASAP to ask what length of liability you have in the situation before you go any further. Explain everything to them in full detail and ask them if you have a responsibility in the matter. If they say no, "as always, have nice day". Your might get stuck with "making it right" if agree to accept the return of the saw to fix it. The seller might pull a fast one and try to get his money back once you get it back in your hands... that would suck.
One question for you... did the buyer already give you feedback on the sale? If so, I'd be tempted to blow him off but would wait to hear from the eBay rep. Although Im sure he could still take up a claim, feedback on the item to be means he's accepted the item and is now the responsible owner (probably not eBays definition though). Thats why I never leave feedback until I'm content with the items quality and that it was represented accurately and does what it should do...
One question for you... did the buyer already give you feedback on the sale? If so, I'd be tempted to blow him off but would wait to hear from the eBay rep. Although Im sure he could still take up a claim, feedback on the item to be means he's accepted the item and is now the responsible owner (probably not eBays definition though). Thats why I never leave feedback until I'm content with the items quality and that it was represented accurately and does what it should do...
millbilly
ArboristSite Guru
I guess I've been luck or either I haven't sold enough saws on the Bay. I've only sold 5 saws and a power painter. That being said, I always send a video of the saw running and cutting, calling the person by name in the video such as; well John (what ever his name is) here is a video of your saw running and operating as stated, good luck and thank you.
I use C-list as much as possible.
I use C-list as much as possible.
I would want the saw back before I gave a refund. I advertise I only give refunds at my discretion to protect myself from fraudulent buyers. He could of robbed your top end and put on one that was toast or possibly you may come up with some reasoning he will agree to and negotiate some of the loss. Any way try not to p him off and if you treat him right and he still is, probably he is trying to take advantage of you. Thankfully I haven't had any problems with selling live saws yet, but haven't done many either.
when I buy a saw I always have in mind it will need work but the husky 55 isn't even worth 300 the buyer is a fruit loop just add milk and tell him have a "I have a potty mouth" day and I am agreeing with diesel the buyer is the one that messed the saw up and don't wanna see the blame put on him
Thank goodness I only sell on C'list.
Face to face over my test log or not at all.
Face to face over my test log or not at all.
About the only option you have is to tell him sorry that you had a problem and refund his money. It will end that way anyhow. If you sell a lot of saws eBay will still make you more money in the long run than trying to sell local. I have probably sold 50 saws on eBay and never had a problem. If I do it is just cost of doing business. If you are just selling a couple a year then Craigslist might be less hazardous.
lasmacgod
ArboristSite Operative
From the last saw I sold on eBay:
Due to the fact that I cannot control the carburetor adjustments, fuel quality, mix ratio, or mix oil used, in addition to several other factors once it leaves my hands, I do not offer any warranty. I also do not accept returns due to prior issues with parts swapping. I wish I could, but unfortunately, a few crooked individuals have ruined it for the rest of us. Please inspect the photos thoroughly, read my description carefully, and ask any questions you may have prior to bidding.
I haven't been put to test by an unsatisfied buyer or eBay . . . yet. Hope I never do, but it's simply a matter of numbers and time, really, before encountering somebody who buys a saw and has no business being anywhere near one.
Due to the fact that I cannot control the carburetor adjustments, fuel quality, mix ratio, or mix oil used, in addition to several other factors once it leaves my hands, I do not offer any warranty. I also do not accept returns due to prior issues with parts swapping. I wish I could, but unfortunately, a few crooked individuals have ruined it for the rest of us. Please inspect the photos thoroughly, read my description carefully, and ask any questions you may have prior to bidding.
I haven't been put to test by an unsatisfied buyer or eBay . . . yet. Hope I never do, but it's simply a matter of numbers and time, really, before encountering somebody who buys a saw and has no business being anywhere near one.
Matt B
ArboristSite Operative
Sometimes I buy saws at local auctions, most are ex government. Many have very little hours on them, are in excellent cond and are well maintained. Almost all are described as and labelled "Sold as Scrap". This is in addition to the repeated statements made buy the auctioneer that the auction house/vendor has no responsibility for the functionallity of the item and that it's the buyers responsibilty to assess it. Plus the fine print when you register to bid.
All pretty tight. Must have been some bad experiences for it to get so in your face.
Thanks for your input Stormy.
All pretty tight. Must have been some bad experiences for it to get so in your face.
Thanks for your input Stormy.
lasmacgod
ArboristSite Operative
I thought a bit more about this. You have it on record that that he was advised that the saw must be tuned prior to running it. You also have him on record stating that he never touched the screws. That may be your way out.
Better yet, is if you stated in the auction item description that the saw had to be tuned prior to use. If eBay tries to rule against you, you can always throw their own policy back in their face that an auction is a contract and that by not touching the screws, he is outright admitting that be breached the contract.
Since we are talking about disclosure, legal issues, etc., I disclose that I am not a lawyer and you should seek legal advice from a licensed attorney in your state. If after taking the blue pill, you have an erection lasting more than 4 hours, seek medical attention immediately. Muffler mods may result in hearing loss. Ported saws may replace the need for the blue pill, will give you wood in one form or another, but should not be used in the bedroom as the carbon monoxide is deadly if the significant other doesn't kill you first. CAD may result in marital discord.
Better yet, is if you stated in the auction item description that the saw had to be tuned prior to use. If eBay tries to rule against you, you can always throw their own policy back in their face that an auction is a contract and that by not touching the screws, he is outright admitting that be breached the contract.
Since we are talking about disclosure, legal issues, etc., I disclose that I am not a lawyer and you should seek legal advice from a licensed attorney in your state. If after taking the blue pill, you have an erection lasting more than 4 hours, seek medical attention immediately. Muffler mods may result in hearing loss. Ported saws may replace the need for the blue pill, will give you wood in one form or another, but should not be used in the bedroom as the carbon monoxide is deadly if the significant other doesn't kill you first. CAD may result in marital discord.
If you think some wording is going to save you prepare to be disappointed. If you think the legal system is going to get in to PayPal/ eBay decisions prepare to be disappointed. If a saw you sell pukes for whatever reason prepare to take it back or have your PayPal payment refunded whether you take it back or not. You can say no returns until you are blue in the face and it does not matter.
dieseldave
ArboristSite Operative
Lots of food for thought here. Cedarshark's post gives me some hope, as does what I've been researching on Ebay. In their resolution section there is a section devoted to this problem which states that if I can show that the item was properly described the case would be decided in my favor. I have plenty of proof that the saw was "as described" when it left here.
LOL that is epic.
You have lots of input and several options you can try to play, its up to you how hands off you want to be but, it might make the most sense to open a case with eBay immediately to make them aware of it and seek advice on the choice/action you plan to take... expect recource from the buyer. Also, contact the 3rd party saw shop he took it too and get the estimate faxed or emailed to you... to me that proves the buyer assumed ownership of the item by seeking the repair from the 3rd party then crapped his pants when he found out it was going to be costly. Then decided he would try to screw you for his mistake..?
dieseldave
ArboristSite Operative
Update: The guy did ship the saw back, should be here in a week or so. He also opened a case with Ebay, which is fine with me because I know I'm right and I can prove it. Nothing like this has never happened to me in my 12+ years on Ebay and I wasn't quite sure what to do, so I decided to give them a call. I was surprised to find that after a short wait I was connected to a pleasant young man who seemed to actually understand the situation. He told me how to respond, some things to do and some things not to do (the plane is out lol) and said that with the documentation I had it very likely turn out ok for me. We'll see. I've had good luck with Ebay so far- in 732 transactions I've had one non-paying bidder (on this same saw, maybe it's jinxed) and I once bought a "rebuildable" 55 that ended up having a broken case. The guy admitted that it was no good and said he'd send another one, but he never did. I was going to try to get a refund through Ebay on it but upon closer examination I found out it had a closed transfer engine in perfect shape, so I was more than happy to hang onto it!
dieseldave
ArboristSite Operative
Marshy, I'm going to have trouble coming up with the cash to pay for all the legal fees I'm incurring with you, but in about a week I'm going to have a nice 55 Husky if you want to stop by and pick it up on your way to the beach lol
You meant Stormy, right? Hmmm...that'd give us 45/55/65cc spread, and mite lead to 75 or 85. Great, now I gotta avoid the beach just to deal with this CAD rash. Glad it's gonna work out, especially when there's absolutely no reason that it shouldn't absent events completely beyond yer control. But even more, I'm glad you didn't just roll over to this.
On second thought...thanks for the heads up MattB. It's off to the auctions we go. D'oh!
