BostonBull
Addicted to ArboristSite
Really? I hadnt heard about that. Well good luck to everyone! Hope everything is going well by now.
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Hurricane Clean-UP
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okietreedude1
ArboristSite Guru
Hey Panther,
Whats the deal w/ having spikes!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know its a tall tree and the first limb is way high, but unless its a removal, leave the spikes in the truck. Your all worried about the tree being hurt, the spikes arent exactly medication or count as an iron injection. Sorry for being harsh.
Whats the deal w/ having spikes!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know its a tall tree and the first limb is way high, but unless its a removal, leave the spikes in the truck. Your all worried about the tree being hurt, the spikes arent exactly medication or count as an iron injection. Sorry for being harsh.
pantheraba
ArboristSite Operative
okietreedude1 said:
No, I'm KINDA worried about the tree being hurt...more worried about Miss Joy, the lady who sleeps under the hanging tree limbs being hurt. For me, the spikes are the most efficient way to get it done. I try not to use them when possible. Down here, the most efficient way is what you have to do.
treebob
ArboristSite Lurker
I found a dump truck in Florida and went yesterday to get it. I need one more dump truck at 18 feet with 4 foot sides and under cdl. Can anyone help? I've looked at EBAY and truckpaper and trucks in the driving distance area are gone. Please contact me if you have any info.
843-816-1323 cell
843-726-9533 home
Thanks for your help,
TREEBOB
843-816-1323 cell
843-726-9533 home
Thanks for your help,
TREEBOB
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
You guys, I have to remind you, Pantheraba is down there as a VOLUNTEER. His contributions to this thread have been excessive, beyond that which we could hope for. If you look at the times on some of his recent posts he is resizing and posting pictures, and offering us information at two or three in the morning, from the zone, on someone else's computer, on a dial-up line. And if you've ever been around a two-hugger slash pine (Pinus elliottii) you would note that the bark can easily be 1-2" thick.
All things consitdered, I would hope you guys could just give it a rest this once.
All things consitdered, I would hope you guys could just give it a rest this once.
treebob
ArboristSite Lurker
What's up Tree Machine? How is the leg today? On your last comment, are you referring to the guy using the spikes and everyone giving him up the creek for it? If so, may I say that these guys may want to do all they can at home to prevent further injury, but I've been in the Zone and what Pantheraba is doing is what NEEDS to be done at this time. This is a situation where there so many trees ready to cause an accident and no one to stop it. Spikes are much, much, faster and safer. You keep going Pantheraba, and my God be with you, your crew, and your family.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thanks, Bob. I took the commentary much the same, as unnecessary commentary from the outside looking in.
I'd like to offer something constructive for those of us who are unfamiliar with Pinus elliottii. In earlier centuries, this tree was the base of an industry. It was used to extract the pitch, which would be refined down to produce turpentine. I have personally seen the trunks of some of these trees, whose trunks had been repeatedly scarred with v-shaped cuts by a machete (slash marks, hence the name slash pine). The trees recovered from this machete treatment, so we might assume that even if the spike made it all the way through the bark an pierced the cambium layer, we would know the response of this tree would be to readily produce pitch to fill the hole and prevent insect infestation (a natural response). Having seen removed limbs from these trees, they appear to be excellent compartmentalizers. They are fast growers and grow only in subtropical and tropical regions where their growth is year-around.
I don't condone spiking live trees, but if OkieTreedude were up high and needed to be rescued, I wouldn't hesitate to put on a set of spurs and fly up the trunk to assist him. Different situations DO call for different strategies.
Pantheraba is a highly experienced treeman who began his climbing career when we were still using manila ropes. He knows the deal about using spikes on trims and I ask him to look past this unnecessary de-rail and continue his valuable contributions which benefit the rest of us attempting to assist in the relief effort.
TreeBob, in answering KentuckySawyer's question of where you were working, you were in Mississippi, south of Hattisburg, north of Slidell, yes?
I'd like to offer something constructive for those of us who are unfamiliar with Pinus elliottii. In earlier centuries, this tree was the base of an industry. It was used to extract the pitch, which would be refined down to produce turpentine. I have personally seen the trunks of some of these trees, whose trunks had been repeatedly scarred with v-shaped cuts by a machete (slash marks, hence the name slash pine). The trees recovered from this machete treatment, so we might assume that even if the spike made it all the way through the bark an pierced the cambium layer, we would know the response of this tree would be to readily produce pitch to fill the hole and prevent insect infestation (a natural response). Having seen removed limbs from these trees, they appear to be excellent compartmentalizers. They are fast growers and grow only in subtropical and tropical regions where their growth is year-around.
I don't condone spiking live trees, but if OkieTreedude were up high and needed to be rescued, I wouldn't hesitate to put on a set of spurs and fly up the trunk to assist him. Different situations DO call for different strategies.
Pantheraba is a highly experienced treeman who began his climbing career when we were still using manila ropes. He knows the deal about using spikes on trims and I ask him to look past this unnecessary de-rail and continue his valuable contributions which benefit the rest of us attempting to assist in the relief effort.
TreeBob, in answering KentuckySawyer's question of where you were working, you were in Mississippi, south of Hattisburg, north of Slidell, yes?
okietreedude1
ArboristSite Guru
Tree Machine said:
rescue situations DO call for different strategies and I appreciate the idea you'd come up to save me.
Its another dead horse beating issue. Ill leave it alone.
My THANKS do go out to Panther for doing the work he is under these conditions, please dont get me wrong there.
logcutter429
ArboristSite Operative
My hats off at what pantheraba is doing, this the south, the southern pine beetle just looks for sap before they attack, and its just about cycle time again, about every 10 years they run amuck deadening hundreds of acres all across the south, the weakened state of the trees might cause it already, pray for a quick frost.
Yellowdog
ArboristSite Operative
KentuckySawyer said:
Sounds like price gouging? I don't care what was being done, I don't see how $30k for 3 days worth of skid steer work is fair and skid steer work is something I know about.
Yellowdog
ArboristSite Operative
Tree Machine said:
Listen to the good advice. You guys that are heading to auctions to pick up machines for making bucks are possibly going to find out the hard way that service/repair is non existent in a storm clean up zone. Extra hoses, parts, fuel, etc. take up space. Old, tired machines are headaches waiting to happen and new, untested machines can come with a host of problems. If you have little experience on a machine, you are not going to be efficient. Just as it takes years to become a proficient climber, it takes many hours in the seat to be able to safely and competently operate a heavy piece of machinery. I have loads of skid steer experience and operate newer machines and there are ALWAYS problems many of which are time consuming to sort through.. Just some honest thoughts..
notahacker
ArboristSite Operative
I think the spike issue is going to remain a issue between the "old school" and the "new school" perspectives. I personally think a expert climber does not need spikes.--Period. A climber, less cabable may need them. However, the debate ends at the sake of the tree's health.--Spikes are horrible for trees. :Monkey:
notahacker
ArboristSite Operative
For those of you that are down working in the Katrina aftermath, how are you getting paid? Check, Credit Card, or Cash?
Anyone getting paid by F.E.M.A.?
Are you going door to door for sales?
How are you getting business?
Anyone getting paid by F.E.M.A.?
Are you going door to door for sales?
How are you getting business?
pantheraba
ArboristSite Operative
Thanks for the support TreeMachine, tree bob, logcutter and Okietreedude...Okie and I are squared away...thanks for the PM and kind words Okie.
Today's work was house-top, ladder, some trunk straddling...no spikes today...not because I am overly concerned about spiking but because we found ways not to climb the tree we used for our winch belay.
Today we tackled a fair sized sweetgum that blew down, root ball turned loose and the tree was leaning on the rooftop. I was able to use my recently purchased throw bag (courtesy of New Tribe) to set a line thru a high crotch of a nearby pine…about 35 feet from the house and 6 feet to the rear and left of the rootball. The crotch was about 40 feet up.
We used the ¾” line to pull the Warn Winch block up to the crotch. We rigged a VERY large block at the “base” of the tree (just above a chainlink fence…too much debris to get lower). [This block has been borrowed from an oil rigging supply house. My brother-in-law, one of our team members, spent 6 hours a few days ago tracking it down when we were removing a large pine from a house. We needed to pull our wire rope thru that high crotch belay and rather than go angling down to the winch, we needed to redirect horizontally to the winch. Bill and the home owner, went to every H. Depot, hardware store, etc. in Picayune, MS, trying to find a suitable block. They finally tried a boatyard and the nearby oil-rig supply house. The first block offered to them was about 2 foot diameter, on a pallet of its own…Bill politely declined. The old timer then scrounged around and found a 10 inch diameter, 80 pound block he has loaned us while we are down here.]
Once we got the high belay set, we used the winch to lift the big bottom block into position. This home had been totally flooded. The owner, Tingy, a 71 year old, uninsured, pretty frail fellow (maybe 110 pounds) had started Katrina in a boat in his garage with his little dog. When the water got too high in the garage, they floated outside into the wind and got on the roof. When that wasn’t enough, they got back in the boat and found a higher roof. This is a very tough, scrappy Louisiana swamper…he quit school at 16 to trap muskrats and has had a very interesting life.
We rigged a choker on the trunk about 8 feet away from the house…that left about 15-20 feet of tree on and over the house.
I got on a ladder and blocked off the limbs…we made a pile of brush and limbs on the roof and I let the limbs and small trunk parts slowly hinge down onto the brush to protect the roof.
Once we cleared all we could of the easy stuff, we tightened the winch and found that we could lift the tree off the house. We then suspended it a few inches over the roof and cut the trunk where it had been resting on the roof. Another cut about 2 feet out from the roof left the trunk suspended at about a 45 degree angle beside the house and pointed at the house.
We put our ladder up against the trunk (no good nearby trees to rig off of for me and the trunk was behaving nicely) and chunked a few 3 foot pieces off until we were sure that dropping the spar would not hit the house.
Bill chapped and helmeted up and cut the spar into the marsh mud that now covers everything in the yard (and the house…inside the house it is pretty vile).
Everything went pretty well today with one exception. I was using my new Tenex sling and block from Sherrill…it has been doing great work. Billy told me on my last block cut that the saw was close to the sling…I knew that but did not realize that when the piece started hinging it was going to move the sling closer to the saw…yep, I nicked the the sling…just a few strands but still made me cuss myself. I was just winding off the throttle to finish the cut with a Silky and it nipped it. I will probably contact Nick to see if he can eye splice the other end for me and I’ll just switch the block to it.
Here are some pictures from today…first is a house that floated off its fundation and came to a rest 100 feet away, astride the road. It turned 180 degrees as it floated….roof support crew and me; cutting chunks, Tingy entertaining us and our entire volunteer crew with Tingy once the job was finished.
Today's work was house-top, ladder, some trunk straddling...no spikes today...not because I am overly concerned about spiking but because we found ways not to climb the tree we used for our winch belay.
Today we tackled a fair sized sweetgum that blew down, root ball turned loose and the tree was leaning on the rooftop. I was able to use my recently purchased throw bag (courtesy of New Tribe) to set a line thru a high crotch of a nearby pine…about 35 feet from the house and 6 feet to the rear and left of the rootball. The crotch was about 40 feet up.
We used the ¾” line to pull the Warn Winch block up to the crotch. We rigged a VERY large block at the “base” of the tree (just above a chainlink fence…too much debris to get lower). [This block has been borrowed from an oil rigging supply house. My brother-in-law, one of our team members, spent 6 hours a few days ago tracking it down when we were removing a large pine from a house. We needed to pull our wire rope thru that high crotch belay and rather than go angling down to the winch, we needed to redirect horizontally to the winch. Bill and the home owner, went to every H. Depot, hardware store, etc. in Picayune, MS, trying to find a suitable block. They finally tried a boatyard and the nearby oil-rig supply house. The first block offered to them was about 2 foot diameter, on a pallet of its own…Bill politely declined. The old timer then scrounged around and found a 10 inch diameter, 80 pound block he has loaned us while we are down here.]
Once we got the high belay set, we used the winch to lift the big bottom block into position. This home had been totally flooded. The owner, Tingy, a 71 year old, uninsured, pretty frail fellow (maybe 110 pounds) had started Katrina in a boat in his garage with his little dog. When the water got too high in the garage, they floated outside into the wind and got on the roof. When that wasn’t enough, they got back in the boat and found a higher roof. This is a very tough, scrappy Louisiana swamper…he quit school at 16 to trap muskrats and has had a very interesting life.
We rigged a choker on the trunk about 8 feet away from the house…that left about 15-20 feet of tree on and over the house.
I got on a ladder and blocked off the limbs…we made a pile of brush and limbs on the roof and I let the limbs and small trunk parts slowly hinge down onto the brush to protect the roof.
Once we cleared all we could of the easy stuff, we tightened the winch and found that we could lift the tree off the house. We then suspended it a few inches over the roof and cut the trunk where it had been resting on the roof. Another cut about 2 feet out from the roof left the trunk suspended at about a 45 degree angle beside the house and pointed at the house.
We put our ladder up against the trunk (no good nearby trees to rig off of for me and the trunk was behaving nicely) and chunked a few 3 foot pieces off until we were sure that dropping the spar would not hit the house.
Bill chapped and helmeted up and cut the spar into the marsh mud that now covers everything in the yard (and the house…inside the house it is pretty vile).
Everything went pretty well today with one exception. I was using my new Tenex sling and block from Sherrill…it has been doing great work. Billy told me on my last block cut that the saw was close to the sling…I knew that but did not realize that when the piece started hinging it was going to move the sling closer to the saw…yep, I nicked the the sling…just a few strands but still made me cuss myself. I was just winding off the throttle to finish the cut with a Silky and it nipped it. I will probably contact Nick to see if he can eye splice the other end for me and I’ll just switch the block to it.
Here are some pictures from today…first is a house that floated off its fundation and came to a rest 100 feet away, astride the road. It turned 180 degrees as it floated….roof support crew and me; cutting chunks, Tingy entertaining us and our entire volunteer crew with Tingy once the job was finished.
pantheraba
ArboristSite Operative
More pictures
pantheraba
ArboristSite Operative
TreeCo said:
Plenty of trees down here for you to not spike...come on down.
I am dragging chains, shackles, blocks up into the tree (yes, I am using a pulley to let ground folks help but I still get to hoss it around). My Danner's just don't grab smooth, stubless spars very well when setting rigging. Someday I would love to have some showing/teaching by you expert guys. In the meantime try not to get too stressed by the spikes.
End of topic for me.
Tree Machine
Addicted to ArboristSite
Tremendous, Pantheraba. And thanks for the intro on Tingy, bringing us a real person's drama along with the aftermath and the final tree work. I think about Tingy's night in the boat, and the moments leading up to when he and his dog had to decide whether to stay in the garage and risk getting pinned to the ceiling, unable to leave except to jump in the water, or to launch out into the storm and hope for the best. Two really bad choices, and no clue as to which was better, and really no other options. I personally can't imagine being in that spot, it just seems almost surreal, something you would see in a movie, but this was real life, not only for Tingy but for thousands of others.
It's doubtful this guy has ever hired a tree crew in his life. After surviving one of the most terrrifying times of his life, he's then faced with the seemingly overwhelming task of reclaiming his home; where to start? How to deal with the tree on his house? Then you cats pull up one day, complete strangers, and you're looking for folks like him. You're there to do what it takes to deal with his tree problems, and you're there to do it at no charge, out of kindness, out of love for our fellow human. You're ARE the definition of a Treemanitarian.
It's doubtful this guy has ever hired a tree crew in his life. After surviving one of the most terrrifying times of his life, he's then faced with the seemingly overwhelming task of reclaiming his home; where to start? How to deal with the tree on his house? Then you cats pull up one day, complete strangers, and you're looking for folks like him. You're there to do what it takes to deal with his tree problems, and you're there to do it at no charge, out of kindness, out of love for our fellow human. You're ARE the definition of a Treemanitarian.
Dadatwins
Addicted to ArboristSite
Amazing work Pantheraba, in I am sure horrible conditions, having worked both ice storms and summer hurricanes I can't think what is worse bone chilling cold or energy draining humidity, my best wishes to you and your crew. Be careful.
pantheraba
ArboristSite Operative
Dadatwins said:
Thanks for the support Dadatwins...the humidity IS amazing...I watched my son wring a bucket of sweat out of his shirt when we stopped today. We drink a bottle of water every 15 minutes or so. No problems with heat prostration yet, everybody is handling it OK.
Today we took out some snags for the people we are staying with in the AM...after lunch we went to a widow lady's house and did general clean up of downed pines and oaks. Our host bought a Bobcat 2 days ago and it is amazing with brush and trunks...he was moving logs 20-25 feet long and at least 18 inch diameter...he picked it completely up, horizontal and moved it around.
I took out 2 broken hangers over the driveway, limbwalked out approx 25 feet from trunk...lots of fun, went real well. More later...headed out to supper.
treebob
ArboristSite Lurker
Pantheraba,
I'm looking at a bobcat here in South Carolina to bring with me. What type did your host get? I would like to get a T250 (Tracked skid steer ,2500 lbs lifting cap)with a 4 in 1 grapple bucket. Is this possible down there? I also need a place to park my camper since there no rooms available anywhere within 100-150 miles. Let me know what you can on these issues.
Go get them Panther? What does that sand for anyway?
Thanks
TREEBOB
I'm looking at a bobcat here in South Carolina to bring with me. What type did your host get? I would like to get a T250 (Tracked skid steer ,2500 lbs lifting cap)with a 4 in 1 grapple bucket. Is this possible down there? I also need a place to park my camper since there no rooms available anywhere within 100-150 miles. Let me know what you can on these issues.
Go get them Panther? What does that sand for anyway?
Thanks
TREEBOB
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