Husqvarna 450 or Dolmar 421?

[Idahonative]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who see's a problem with the auto tune technology. I won't ever own one. And my advise to others is buy these "old school", reliable, strong running, quality built, machines now while you can. They are reasonably priced and a guy can afford to salt one (or two or three...) away for use years down the road.

Five years from now, when there is no other choice but to run auto tune of some sort, I will be happily cutting away with my low tech Echo's. And Chris will still be trying to convince people that auto tune is worth the inconvenience and cost to save the earth. Even though the average firewood cutter probably burns far less than 5 gallons of two stroke annually.

From all indications, the Dolmar 421 would be an excellent saw to add to the stable.

 

[Michigan Escapee]

Serious question: what is actually needed for accessing the new saws' data?

From the device I saw this weekend, it looked like a basic 3 wire serial interface going into a black box, probably with some voltage converters, buffer chips, and this box was hooked up to a USB interface. Plug it into the "magic" piece of software that uses all the usual visual basic interface bling(but not too expertly applied), and then organize the data read off the chip.

http://cdn.power.husqvarnagroup.com...als/Manual_Engine_Diagnostic_Tool_English.pdf


And a sort of universal serial programmer looks something like this, you just hook up whatever kind of cable interface you want to the pin header.
https://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/usb-avr-programmer.html

If you want I2C, JTAG, or other different serial interfaces, you get a different gizmo for $20.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Blackcat-US...ON-MXIC-Winbond-Microchip-ATMEL-/290505181360

Most of the variations all look like that.

I mention the last two, because generally, manufactures don't reinvent the wheel when it comes to interface standards. You might have to squirt the right data into the chip to get the responses you need, and then a way to organize the data returned.

 

[Chris-PA]

And Chris will still be trying to convince people that auto tune is worth the inconvenience and cost to save the earth.

Totally ignoring the fact that the correct mixture makes more power. Only slow guys think more fuel = more power.

 

[Idahonative]

Totally ignoring the fact that the correct mixture makes more power. Only slow guys think more fuel = more power.

Only slow guys can't figure out how to adjust a carb with a screw driver. I don't know, maybe a guy like you needs AT...no shame in that Chris.

 

[LittleLebowski]

Come on gents, no need to get personal. Also, I'm one of those slow ones that has trouble adjusting carbs

 

[Idahonative]

 

[Chris-PA]

Only slow guys can't figure out how to adjust a carb with a screw driver. I don't know, maybe a guy like you needs AT...no shame in that Chris.

LOL - you're one of those who haven't figured out how these carbs work, and still think you can adjust them to give a correct mixture. Your "properly adjusted" carb goes from a perfectly correct mixture at some point under load to so rich it's misfiring with maybe a 20% increase in air flow. Now instead of lifting push a little harder - do you know what happens? It gets leaner.

AT can keep a correct mixture as the load varies, which the carbs you think you're adjusting correctly cannot do.

 

[Idahonative]

LOL - you're one of those who haven't figured out how these carbs work, and still think you can adjust them to give a correct mixture. Your "properly adjusted" carb goes from a perfectly correct mixture at some point under load to so rich it's misfiring with maybe a 20% increase in air flow. Now instead of lifting push a little harder - do you know what happens? It gets leaner.

AT can keep a correct mixture as the load varies, which the carbs you think you're adjusting correctly cannot do.

Thanks for the lesson professor. Hey Chris, how did we ever get along without AT? Never mind, I already know your answer.

 

[Chris-PA]

Thanks for the lesson professor. Hey Chris, how did we ever get along without AT? Never mind, I already know your answer.

We let them run rich.

BTW, it was not necessary to go to electronic feedback to make an all position carb that could hold a correct mixture, but doing so would have been a bit larger, more complex and cost a few cents more.

 

[Michigan Escapee]

Yes, but why? Why all this worry about heat? Ceramic coatings have been around since the 80s. And it doesn't exactly look super hard to do.
http://honda-tech.com/tech-misc-15/diy-internal-engine-coatings-first-attempt-check-out-1971333/

Was the world so entranced by slick 50 snake oil, ron popeil gadgets, and new duct tape formulations that they weren't ceramic coating their engine parts?

I mean, look at this, if a crazed nascar hillbilly could do it, why not others? http://www.legendarycollectorcars.c...s-see-and-hear-it-run-in-our-exclusive-video/

Why did the world seemingly snooze for three decades on this technology? It was porn on VHS tapes wasn't it? Once that came out, and the internet, progress stopped cold, people were too distracted to develop new things!

 

[MountainHigh]

my advise to others is buy these "old school", reliable, strong running, quality built, machines now while you can. They are reasonably priced and a guy can afford to salt one (or two or three...) away for use years down the road.
From all indications, the Dolmar 421 would be an excellent saw to add to the stable.

My sentiment exactly. We should be getting a commission on these things

 

[CoreyB]

I have had a few problematic carbs that an auto tune would be appealing.
However I truly enjoy a good solid simplistic machine.
I guess I am kind of nostalgic as well.

 

[Chris-PA]

I like simple as well - it's one of the reasons I like both strato and AT, as both make major improvements with very low complexity. In the case of strato it greatly reduces scavenging losses by virtue of the shapes of a couple of parts and requires no additional parts at all, moving or otherwise. In the case of AT it gives a fuel system that can not only hold a constant fuel/air mixture for the first time ever in a chainsaw, it self adjusts - and it requires almost no sensors at all and one fuel control actuator.

 

[LittleLebowski]

I like simple as well - it's one of the reasons I like both strato and AT, as both make major improvements with very low complexity. In the case of strato it greatly reduces scavenging losses by virtue of the shapes of a couple of parts and requires no additional parts at all, moving or otherwise. In the case of AT it gives a fuel system that can not only hold a constant fuel/air mixture for the first time ever in a chainsaw, it self adjusts - and it requires almost no sensors at all and one fuel control actuator.

Which saws have both?

 

[CoreyB]

Which saws have both?

I think the stihl 362, 262, husky 555,562,545,550 but don't quote me on it.

 

[Idahonative]

I like simple as well - it's one of the reasons I like both strato and AT, as both make major improvements with very low complexity. In the case of strato it greatly reduces scavenging losses by virtue of the shapes of a couple of parts and requires no additional parts at all, moving or otherwise. In the case of AT it gives a fuel system that can not only hold a constant fuel/air mixture for the first time ever in a chainsaw, it self adjusts - and it requires almost no sensors at all and one fuel control actuator.

Sounds good but in the real world, if you have a problem with your AT, you have almost ZERO chance of fixing it yourself. Then you take it to the dealer and have about a 50% chance that they can/will fix it. If that's "major improvements with very low complexity", count me out.

 

[Chris-PA]

if you have a problem with your AT, you have almost ZERO chance of fixing it yourself.

Lol, maybe you don't.

 

[Idahonative]

Lol, maybe you don't.

I'll never know because I refuse to own an AT saw. Probably easy for you to fix one...with your chainsaw phone app...LOL

 

[Chris-PA]

I'll never know because I refuse to own an AT saw. Probably easy for you to fix one.

There are plenty of others here who are not afraid of them and have already diagnosed and fixed problems with AT carbs. On the thread about the 550 bog there was a guy (who clearly understands carbs) that simply modified the metering lever spring, which would be a decent approach for any carb that had such an issue. I'm sure you understand about metering levers and springs in tuning traditional carbs, right?

with your chainsaw phone app...LOL

Another simple and effective solution that you don't understand and so laugh at. It's neither a chainsaw nor a phone app, rather a widely used audio spectrum analyzer. Nor is it mine, I just showed how to use it for this purpose. As usual, you're wrong on most every count.

I think it's a hoot that your buddies on the other site where you hang out were lamenting not knowing what rpm their ported saws ran in the cut, while making similar snide comments. Yet I already know what they don't, or could at any time - and so could they since I showed how to use it for exactly that purpose! Guess who's laughing hardest?

 

[LittleLebowski]

I can't say I'm enjoying the vitriol but serious question:
Saw parts can and are usually cheap. Has anyone here replaced AT parts?