andrethegiant70
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yup, you seem to have boiled it down to two pretty good saws. I don't own either of them, but I hear good things. Now for chain sharpening.....
I want to buy a *REALLY* good chain saw. Suggestions?
- Thread starter Mr_Super-hunky
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Sprig
Addicted to ArboristSite
But, if you did use them regularly (i'm thinking spanners comment here and such) you'd be damned happy to have lifetime guarantees, believe me. Just because you are happy with a cheap tool that does the job du-jour, sure doesn't measure up to having to use that same tool day after day and have it fail on ya. If you were to invest in 1 decent kit of Snap-ons, Craftmans (now debatababble), Greys, what-ever, then you wouldn't be wasting your time going down to (name box store here) every time ya needed one tool.
As an example, though a cheap one, I bought a Crappy Tyre tool kit for 27.00 in '95, 76 piece I think good quality, stil used every day, wish it was a better set, only ever broke my 10mm socket, BUT, I'm sure not hunting around for the tools I need when-ever. Said many times here and all over, 'Ya gets what ya pays for.' Though this is not always true by any means there are companies out there that do still have quality as their prime objectives, just wait till some of the up and coming nations catch their stride, I see some big competition and some major changes coming, but then, I'm weird and see bad monkeys messin' with my Dremels.......If I'd had a choice now to do the same thing I'd have bought a really good ratchet and my fav ten sockets and gone from there.....:monkey: Nah, it were me........
Make any sense, GAH, just slap me :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:
Serge
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SawTroll
Information Collector
The post this quote is taken from was a good one!
It sounds to me that the MS361 could be "overkill", but at your altitude that could come in handy (power loss).
The 361 has a really good power to weight ratio, and is the lightest of the "60cc" options.
If you step down the ladder for weight and power, the Dolmar PS5100S, and then the Husky 346xp, are the ones to take a really close look at.......
Mr_Super-hunky
ArboristSite Member
Sawtroll:
I think you are right. The forrest I cut in has an elevation of nearly 8000ft. Our home is at 7600ft. I remember a two stroke dirt bike I had ran like a monster in Phoenix (around 1,200 feet) but lost approx 20%-25% of its power when brought up and ridden at our northern location.
The high altitude can make an enormous difference in power on 2 stroke engines (and I am referring to properly re-jetted ones).
I may have to get the most appropriate saw (power-wise) and then go one notch up to compensate for the altitude. This is why the ms 361 may be a better choice than the ms260, or the 357xp over the 346xp.
I can't say exactly how much power loss is experienced (percentage wise) at this high altitude but I also just replaced a carburated Polaris Ranger for the new fuel injected one and again, the difference was huge!!
I think you are right. The forrest I cut in has an elevation of nearly 8000ft. Our home is at 7600ft. I remember a two stroke dirt bike I had ran like a monster in Phoenix (around 1,200 feet) but lost approx 20%-25% of its power when brought up and ridden at our northern location.
The high altitude can make an enormous difference in power on 2 stroke engines (and I am referring to properly re-jetted ones).
I may have to get the most appropriate saw (power-wise) and then go one notch up to compensate for the altitude. This is why the ms 361 may be a better choice than the ms260, or the 357xp over the 346xp.
I can't say exactly how much power loss is experienced (percentage wise) at this high altitude but I also just replaced a carburated Polaris Ranger for the new fuel injected one and again, the difference was huge!!
SawTroll
Information Collector
Whatever saw you pick, don't use a bar that is longer than you really need, a 16" one sound like the lenght you need......
andrethegiant70
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hello, Mr SH. I guessing, although you do not volunteer the information, that you live around the San Francisco Mountains or the White Mountains, as those are the only places I'm aware of that have an appreciable amount of elevation at or above 8,000 ft. It seems also that you are new in the area. I would not necessarily limit yourself to cutting what is immediately in your backyard, especially if you're going to heat a 4,000sq ft house. I live in the San Francisco Mountains at 7,300 ft and I burn nothing but oak and Juniper, far and away the better choices for firewood. The oak is prime, although you have to hunt some for it and the Juniper is plentiful and burns hot and clean. I don't even LOOK at pine and aspen when I go cutting (ok, I mill a lot of pine, its great framing lumber). The pine will burn pitchy and will require a lot of chimney sweeping and aspen, though it is good as a starter wood, burns like paper and leaves a lot of ash. Having said all that, some folks around here do burn pine but only because its dirt cheap to buy (why buy a chainsaw then, right?) or they haven't bothered to look for better.
If you're going firewood hunting, you're going to have to poke around. You have numerous choices of National Forest. All are replete with firewood choices far superior to aspen and pine. Most of my oak is small diameter (8 inches or so, but I have also cut lots all the way up to 20 inches or so. I make the wife split that stuff! I'm only kidding but she does seem to enjoy helping (see the pic). That big pile behind her has plenty of 10 - 16 inch oak although it is the minority. I cut the whole pile with a Husqvarna 41 with an 18 inch bar. If you look below at my saws you'll see that I have lots of choices and I'm not limited to the 41. I actually choose the 41 alot because it is small, light, and fairly capable. If I were going to pick ONE saw, I would not bother with a 41, I would use something more in the 55cc range (the 034, for instance). Since you have an 021 already for the small stuff, I'd bump it up a little more into the 60cc range. I think the gents who are talking about the 357 and the 361 are right on. Also, my guess is that you'll end up bucking some larger pine (I buck and split firewood for an infirm neighbor who has unlimited pine resources). You, as the owner of "the right equipment," may be called on for similar duty. The 2 saws mentioned would also be apporpriate for that.
If you live around the SF Mountains, you might want to PM me (personal message), as I doubt these guys want to wade through a session on local wood resources. Oh, and congrats on getting out of Phoenix. IMHO, that place is a nightmare. A couple of million people packed into a desert. Genius, pure genius.
If you're going firewood hunting, you're going to have to poke around. You have numerous choices of National Forest. All are replete with firewood choices far superior to aspen and pine. Most of my oak is small diameter (8 inches or so, but I have also cut lots all the way up to 20 inches or so. I make the wife split that stuff! I'm only kidding but she does seem to enjoy helping (see the pic). That big pile behind her has plenty of 10 - 16 inch oak although it is the minority. I cut the whole pile with a Husqvarna 41 with an 18 inch bar. If you look below at my saws you'll see that I have lots of choices and I'm not limited to the 41. I actually choose the 41 alot because it is small, light, and fairly capable. If I were going to pick ONE saw, I would not bother with a 41, I would use something more in the 55cc range (the 034, for instance). Since you have an 021 already for the small stuff, I'd bump it up a little more into the 60cc range. I think the gents who are talking about the 357 and the 361 are right on. Also, my guess is that you'll end up bucking some larger pine (I buck and split firewood for an infirm neighbor who has unlimited pine resources). You, as the owner of "the right equipment," may be called on for similar duty. The 2 saws mentioned would also be apporpriate for that.
If you live around the SF Mountains, you might want to PM me (personal message), as I doubt these guys want to wade through a session on local wood resources. Oh, and congrats on getting out of Phoenix. IMHO, that place is a nightmare. A couple of million people packed into a desert. Genius, pure genius.
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Hey Super, just get the Husky 357xp. You will not be disappointed. Great anti-vib system and excellent filtration.
sawinredneck
Addicted to ArboristSite
Getting better info now MSH? I think andre had a great post, and you and troll make good pointds about the altitude and power loss. I usually try and "upsell", meaning I like people buying one saw, to buy a little bigger than they really need for that "just in case moment". Then you aren't wishing you had more saw (as I learned the hard way).
As for you choices, I don't have a bad word to say about either, but I also have run neither. BUT, I don't care about brand, and I am an oddity (or at least my saw might be?) I have not been impressed with the 346xp, and will run a 350 anyday. As for the difference, here is the only thing that comes to mind. The Husky is a small bar mount I believe, (I WILL be corrected if wrong) and the Stihl will run a 28" in softwood, it ain't pretty, but it works. Other than that, filtration is close to the same, the clutch thing, well it ain't IMO. Which one feels better to you? Remeber, you have to run it, not us, not a thing wrong with either, and I'd be happy with either (be a LOT happier with a NOS 262xp, but thats another story:help: )
As for you choices, I don't have a bad word to say about either, but I also have run neither. BUT, I don't care about brand, and I am an oddity (or at least my saw might be?) I have not been impressed with the 346xp, and will run a 350 anyday. As for the difference, here is the only thing that comes to mind. The Husky is a small bar mount I believe, (I WILL be corrected if wrong) and the Stihl will run a 28" in softwood, it ain't pretty, but it works. Other than that, filtration is close to the same, the clutch thing, well it ain't IMO. Which one feels better to you? Remeber, you have to run it, not us, not a thing wrong with either, and I'd be happy with either (be a LOT happier with a NOS 262xp, but thats another story:help: )
357 361
With 16" b+c's the balance and feel the same. I own both and the weight shown are with both filled up with gas and bar oil and 16" b+c's.
So it is a toss up on price your wants and dealer support IMO.
I dislike the 357 chain tensioner. I dislike the 361 filter system, both have good and bads, Its your choice both good saws IMO. The inboard outboard clutch has never come into play for me, I dont cut noodles to clog up clutches, I like cookies.
With 16" b+c's the balance and feel the same. I own both and the weight shown are with both filled up with gas and bar oil and 16" b+c's.
So it is a toss up on price your wants and dealer support IMO.
I dislike the 357 chain tensioner. I dislike the 361 filter system, both have good and bads, Its your choice both good saws IMO. The inboard outboard clutch has never come into play for me, I dont cut noodles to clog up clutches, I like cookies.
rreidnauer
ArboristSite Operative
With 16" b+c's the balance and feel the same. I own both and the weight shown are with both filled up with gas and bar oil and 16" b+c's.
So it is a toss up on price your wants and dealer support IMO.
I dislike the 357 chain tensioner. I dislike the 361 filter system, both have good and bads, Its your choice both good saws IMO. The inboard outboard clutch has never come into play for me, I dont cut noodles to clog up clutches, I like cookies.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/357361weightsinrealworlduse.jpg[/IMG]
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/CopyofPartnerproject015.jpg[/IMG]
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g289/doemaster789/CopyofPartnerproject012.jpg[/IMG]
Excellent side by side comparison. I'd rep ya, but I'm out.
Mr_Super-hunky
ArboristSite Member
Okay, here are some updates. Today I spent several hours going to two different Stihl dealers and one husky dealer. Both surprised me with info I was'nt expecting.
First, I must say that both Stihl dealers did not have the ms361 in stock..(sold out!). Both dealers tried to sell me a different saw as they felt a different saw would be better for my needs.
The first dealer suggested I go for the ms280 as he thought that would be plenty of saw with an 18'' bar, even left all stock. They were sold out of the ms361 and aid it would be two weeks to get more. I'm suspect that they may have just tried to sell me whatever they had!.
The next dealer listened to my criteria, and said the saw your describing to me is the ms361, but suggested that the 390 would be a far wiser choice for me.
He said that the ms361 and the ms390 are the exact same saw in every respect other than the body on the ms361 is magnesium and the body of the ms390 is plastic..(strong plastic).
Other than that iteam, the saws are built and perform to the exact same specs. Is this true? or a stretch??. Ther was about a $150 difference between the two. He also said that the ms390 was the best "bang for the buck" saw out there. i.e, the best power and performance at the lowest affordable price.
He further went on to say that for a non-production cutter, spending the extra money for the mag body is a total waste. Other than impressing the trees with the more expensive mag body, the plastic one will *realistically* perform just as well/long for a non production cutter.
The prices I received were around $400 for the ms390 and $521 for the ms361. (the other dealer wanted $585 for the ms361.)
After that, I went to the Husky dealer in town and asked about the 357xp. Once again to my surprise, he suggested a different saw from what I described to him. He suggested the 359 instead of the 357xp as they had the exact same weight and *sililar* power.
He said the 357xp is a stronger motor, but not that much stronger to justify a $150 difference. Once again, he said the 359 would meet all my needs.
The prices I was given seemed a bit high. $650 for the 357xp; and $509 for the 359.
My first thought was that I could get the Stihl ms361 for $130 less than the 357xp and the Stihl ms 390 for $250 less. I do realize that I could probably find better prices on the Huskies however.
So, thats my story. I now have two more saw suggestions to consider. The Stihl ms390, and the Husky 359. Anyone have any experience or info on these two?
First, I must say that both Stihl dealers did not have the ms361 in stock..(sold out!). Both dealers tried to sell me a different saw as they felt a different saw would be better for my needs.
The first dealer suggested I go for the ms280 as he thought that would be plenty of saw with an 18'' bar, even left all stock. They were sold out of the ms361 and aid it would be two weeks to get more. I'm suspect that they may have just tried to sell me whatever they had!.
The next dealer listened to my criteria, and said the saw your describing to me is the ms361, but suggested that the 390 would be a far wiser choice for me.
He said that the ms361 and the ms390 are the exact same saw in every respect other than the body on the ms361 is magnesium and the body of the ms390 is plastic..(strong plastic).
Other than that iteam, the saws are built and perform to the exact same specs. Is this true? or a stretch??. Ther was about a $150 difference between the two. He also said that the ms390 was the best "bang for the buck" saw out there. i.e, the best power and performance at the lowest affordable price.
He further went on to say that for a non-production cutter, spending the extra money for the mag body is a total waste. Other than impressing the trees with the more expensive mag body, the plastic one will *realistically* perform just as well/long for a non production cutter.
The prices I received were around $400 for the ms390 and $521 for the ms361. (the other dealer wanted $585 for the ms361.)
After that, I went to the Husky dealer in town and asked about the 357xp. Once again to my surprise, he suggested a different saw from what I described to him. He suggested the 359 instead of the 357xp as they had the exact same weight and *sililar* power.
He said the 357xp is a stronger motor, but not that much stronger to justify a $150 difference. Once again, he said the 359 would meet all my needs.
The prices I was given seemed a bit high. $650 for the 357xp; and $509 for the 359.
My first thought was that I could get the Stihl ms361 for $130 less than the 357xp and the Stihl ms 390 for $250 less. I do realize that I could probably find better prices on the Huskies however.
So, thats my story. I now have two more saw suggestions to consider. The Stihl ms390, and the Husky 359. Anyone have any experience or info on these two?
sperho
ArboristSite Operative
SuperH said:
Not the saws that they are pushing on you. They are good saws, mind you, but if you want the best-made and most power per pound, those are likely not the ones (for Stihl, at least). The 359 gets good marks according to some on this board, but I'll let others weigh in on the details.
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Your original title says you want a really good chainsaw get a pro model.
spacemule
The Peanut Gallery
Isn't the 390 considerably heavier than the 361?
Dont bother with the 390! Ask the dealer that recomended it to show you how to get in and brush the dirt away from the cylinder fins! That is one of the reasons to stay away from that frame.
From your posts I would say get the 361(Stihl), 357(Husky) or the 5100S(Dolmar) maybe even go up to the 6400 Dolmar with a 24" bar.
For the money I'd go with the 361 or the 5100S!
From your posts I would say get the 361(Stihl), 357(Husky) or the 5100S(Dolmar) maybe even go up to the 6400 Dolmar with a 24" bar.
For the money I'd go with the 361 or the 5100S!
$521 Is a good price for a 361, I say go for it.
I bucked up this cherry tree in no more than 10 or 15 minutes with my 361.
I bucked up this cherry tree in no more than 10 or 15 minutes with my 361.
Mr_Super-hunky
ArboristSite Member
Wow,nice rounds andy!.
There is one more iteam that I left out; that being *feel*.
Although I thought the Huskies looked like something produced back in the 70's, I must say that some of the models felt very very comfortable. The more roundish body seemed to roll and turn more easily to me than the Stihls in general. This coming from a Stihl owner!.
The Stihls looked very sleek and almost classy and had very a much more square-ish feel to it as opposed to the more blunt and rounded Husky.
I have not run either yet so I don't know about the type of power they deliver.
Besides feel and aesthetics, the other BIG factor for me is weight. Having a chronic joint disease, all of my large joints can and do get very sore quickly. This has nothing to do with strength, as I can handle the biggest saws easily, but rather, duration. Even though I can lift the heavier saws, I get sore and fatigued very quickly so the lighter saws are very appealing to me.
For this reason, I looked at both stihl and Husky spec sheets, and on paper, the best power to weight ratio saw around 10-ish 11 lbs weight range is actually the Husky 346xp.
While this may not be as manly a saw as I had hoped to comfortably handle (such as in the 12 lb ms361 and 357xp), the 346xp may be just the ticket to balance out power and weight I can comfortably handle. I just don't know if it will be powerful and big enough to meet future needs or be too close in size to my little 021.
Then again, big trees here are not the norm so why carry around the extra couple of pounds for a ms361 or 357xp if I'm never really in that power/size requirement range?. Just thinking out loud!.
There is one more iteam that I left out; that being *feel*.
Although I thought the Huskies looked like something produced back in the 70's, I must say that some of the models felt very very comfortable. The more roundish body seemed to roll and turn more easily to me than the Stihls in general. This coming from a Stihl owner!.
The Stihls looked very sleek and almost classy and had very a much more square-ish feel to it as opposed to the more blunt and rounded Husky.
I have not run either yet so I don't know about the type of power they deliver.
Besides feel and aesthetics, the other BIG factor for me is weight. Having a chronic joint disease, all of my large joints can and do get very sore quickly. This has nothing to do with strength, as I can handle the biggest saws easily, but rather, duration. Even though I can lift the heavier saws, I get sore and fatigued very quickly so the lighter saws are very appealing to me.
For this reason, I looked at both stihl and Husky spec sheets, and on paper, the best power to weight ratio saw around 10-ish 11 lbs weight range is actually the Husky 346xp.
While this may not be as manly a saw as I had hoped to comfortably handle (such as in the 12 lb ms361 and 357xp), the 346xp may be just the ticket to balance out power and weight I can comfortably handle. I just don't know if it will be powerful and big enough to meet future needs or be too close in size to my little 021.
Then again, big trees here are not the norm so why carry around the extra couple of pounds for a ms361 or 357xp if I'm never really in that power/size requirement range?. Just thinking out loud!.
SmokinDodge
Powered by Cummins
You need an 041 pure and simple.
Joking of course. I can't speak for a Husky saw, never ran one but you wanted a really *good* chainsaw and that in my opion would eliminate the 390. They don't have bad power but they are heavier than others of the same rating.
I would rather have the 11.7* pound MS 280. *You need to be cautious of believeing the saw manf. weights and ratings, not all are as acurate as others*. Go to the dealer(s) get them to fill up a saw and run it. Only way to tell, period.
joesawer
Addicted to ArboristSite
The dealer was feeding you a line about the 390 being the same as a 361. Many people, myself included, consider the 361 a very good saw and the 390 to be a peice of junk.
A few years ago, a disaster relief company that I was working for bought 10 brand new 390s. They where all hard to start, weak, and tempermental. I saw 2 of them get thrown out of the tree by irate climbers. Not one of the ten was what I would call a good saw.
The 357 is also a good saw. A couple of weeks ago there was one on a job I was on that the owner had just ported. It out cut a stock 372 in small wood (at about 7000' elevation). Nice little saw.
A few years ago, a disaster relief company that I was working for bought 10 brand new 390s. They where all hard to start, weak, and tempermental. I saw 2 of them get thrown out of the tree by irate climbers. Not one of the ten was what I would call a good saw.
The 357 is also a good saw. A couple of weeks ago there was one on a job I was on that the owner had just ported. It out cut a stock 372 in small wood (at about 7000' elevation). Nice little saw.
andrethegiant70
Addicted to ArboristSite
Wow, that is some very interesting news about the dealers. Disappointing, too. I would urge you NOT to get what they were pushing. I think these fellows are onto it.. 357, 361. Avoid the 390 if you are looking for a professional saw, it is not at all the same as the 361 (jeeze, that was a big ol' fib that guy told you). The MS 290, 310, and 390 are all the same homeowner saw with different displacements. They are pretty much larger versions of your 021/210, not bad, just not what you're looking for. Stick to your guns.
Oh, do not forget that cutting in the National Forest requires a permit.. its cheap ($20 or so) but they'll fine you if you don't have it. Also, fire danger is VERY high right now, bring water and a fire extinguisher.
Get some ear and eye protection at the very least... I also wear a full face screen. It is probably not absolutely necessary, but I have taken some real shots to the face (flying bark and wood) that I think might have otherwise cut me. Some of these fellows use chaps.. I don't but I am considering it.
Take your time picking/finding the saw, you'll appreciate it later.
Oh, do not forget that cutting in the National Forest requires a permit.. its cheap ($20 or so) but they'll fine you if you don't have it. Also, fire danger is VERY high right now, bring water and a fire extinguisher.
Get some ear and eye protection at the very least... I also wear a full face screen. It is probably not absolutely necessary, but I have taken some real shots to the face (flying bark and wood) that I think might have otherwise cut me. Some of these fellows use chaps.. I don't but I am considering it.
Take your time picking/finding the saw, you'll appreciate it later.
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