I'm gettin' tired of this!!

[kevknep]

that was my point.

those are "homer" tools (homer=home owner)

by nature ,my friend , i come off as sarcastic potentially even arrogant.

look up the word buzzard in the dictionary. 3rd def.
that's me.
oldirty buzzard

lol

although with mr begley waxing poetic, he gets one thinking.

and i did mean it when i said good luck. honestly. i may be unpleasant or otherwise avaricious but i dont wish ill will upon no man.
beyond them days.




oldirty

I appreciate the post. I'm sure I went on the defensive fairly quickly. Best of luck with your business too.

 

[oldirty]

my business is to make my boss as much money as i can. the more money i make him the more money i earn.

so far business is good.

thanks knep.

be right.


odb

 

[Timberhauler]

I'm in a small midwest town of 30K people, not a city or big area. time off in the cold and snow imo is not a bad thing. anyone smart plans for the downtime and saves. makes for a nice vacation when you don't wanna be out in it anyway. I usually schedule work in winter around the weather, and feel sorry for the poor guys out in the -10 wind chill climbing some tree.
yeah, last /this winter was slower than usual, but I wasn't complaining!
and I keep my expenses low as possible too, so that helps.
if I had more work I'd need more equipment (and the expense that goes with it) and Id have to work in the real nasty weather to pay for it. I've worked hard to find a balance of work, expenses, good money and family time.
I'm at the point that I'm as big as I want to be. I usually take off a day or so a week in spring/summer to go fishing too. usually load up the boat and take the crew with. we act like we went to work all day. plus company camping trips where we shut down thrus evening and load out fri morning until sunday afternoon. usually hunt a day or 2 a week in the fall early winter. too much work burns a guy out. After a 12 year marriage that eventually ended due to me working too much and 2 kids I don't even know (to this day), I learned that there's more to life than living to work for a living. at one time I was a 30 year old fit and trim guy on high blood pressure meds. no longer.
they say youth is wasted on the young and lifes too short. I have decided (and learned) to enjoy it while I am young enough to do the things I want to do and I spend a lot of time with my kids. at one time I calculated I spent 12 hours a week with my family not counting sleep, but counting times when they should be home but were not and were doing their other activities. and for those 12 hours I was so wound up trying to slow down for the evening that no one could stand to be around me even if I was home.
so I changed my outlook, I work to make money to pay the bills and live my life. ask a person who they are and most times you get their job title. well, a treeman is no longer who I am. I am first and foremost a father and husband, who happens to cut trees to support his family and have money to do things with them.
I don't like cheese, so I go out of the rat race.
-Ralph

When I first started out,I was working from daylight til' dark everyday,sometimes seven days a week....Now we try to only work three or four so we have a little time to enjoy.I could probably easily add another crew and go into more debt to buy more equipment,but it would give me more to stress about...My wife recently took a leave of absence from her job so we could try and add one more child to our mix,so that's gonna be a little more weight to pull for a while.During deer season,I take at least two days a week and do nothing but hunt,during the rest of the year,my son and I fish.I'd like to be able to just hand this business down to my children when I get ready so they won't have the struggle I did getting into it.

 

[Ax-man]

I'm in a small midwest town of 30K people, not a city or big area. time off in the cold and snow imo is not a bad thing. anyone smart plans for the downtime and saves. makes for a nice vacation when you don't wanna be out in it anyway. I usually schedule work in winter around the weather, and feel sorry for the poor guys out in the -10 wind chill climbing some tree.
yeah, last /this winter was slower than usual, but I wasn't complaining!
and I keep my expenses low as possible too, so that helps.
if I had more work I'd need more equipment (and the expense that goes with it) and Id have to work in the real nasty weather to pay for it. I've worked hard to find a balance of work, expenses, good money and family time.
I'm at the point that I'm as big as I want to be. I usually take off a day or so a week in spring/summer to go fishing too. usually load up the boat and take the crew with. we act like we went to work all day. plus company camping trips where we shut down thrus evening and load out fri morning until sunday afternoon. usually hunt a day or 2 a week in the fall early winter. too much work burns a guy out. After a 12 year marriage that eventually ended due to me working too much and 2 kids I don't even know (to this day), I learned that there's more to life than living to work for a living. at one time I was a 30 year old fit and trim guy on high blood pressure meds. no longer.
they say youth is wasted on the young and lifes too short. I have decided (and learned) to enjoy it while I am young enough to do the things I want to do and I spend a lot of time with my kids. at one time I calculated I spent 12 hours a week with my family not counting sleep, but counting times when they should be home but were not and were doing their other activities. and for those 12 hours I was so wound up trying to slow down for the evening that no one could stand to be around me even if I was home.
so I changed my outlook, I work to make money to pay the bills and live my life. ask a person who they are and most times you get their job title. well, a treeman is no longer who I am. I am first and foremost a father and husband, who happens to cut trees to support his family and have money to do things with them.
I don't like cheese, so I go out of the rat race.
-Ralph

Most excellent post, enjoyed reading it.

Larry

 

[arborworks1]

so very true about working so hard to make a name and get established. now you learn to readjust to everyday life again.


And yes Columbia is lacking in high quality Tree guys, We worked for 3 weeks straight in one neighborhood. We are also about 60 miles away from columbia.

 

[beowulf343]

I work to make money to pay the bills and live my life. ask a person who they are and most times you get their job title. well, a treeman is no longer who I am. I am first and foremost a father and husband, who happens to cut trees to support his family and have money to do things with them.
I don't like cheese, so I go out of the rat race.
-Ralph

I got to say ralph, i'm impressed. Not many guys i know seem to have their priorities straight in life.


Btw, just noticed-you never struck me as a douglas adams fan. Been reading him since i was a teenager. Thought provoking stuff presented in a humorous manner. love it!

 

[begleytree]

LMAO
I love reading douglas adams! and Pat McManus, if it wasn't for him I'd have dropped my Outdoor life subscription long ago!
You're the first to notice that in the sig line.
-Ralph

 

[SRT-Tech]

This is what this thread is conveying so far:

- if a guy has a chainsaw other than a Stihl or a Husky, he is a jackleg.

- if a guy has a pickup truck and any chainsaw other than Stihl & Husky, he is a jackleg

- if a guy does'nt have massive overhead in the form of $200,000+ chippers, fancy trucks, boom lifts, he is a jackleg

- a guy can be experienced in climbing, own a Blaze2 or Versital Saddle, nice ropes, and because all he owns is some climbing gear and a, gasp, tiny stump grinder, he is still a jackleg

- only those with a gazzillibillion $$$ worth of equipment are allowed to work, everyone else is a jackleg that should not be working.

- even though this is America, and people can charge whatever they want, those that charge less than the guy with all the fancy equipment, are jacklegs.

- if a guy cannot remove all the tree trimmings and firewood in one day, he is a jackleg.


wow

 

[treevet]

Is a jackleg a goodthing or a bad thing?

 

[Booshcat]

Dont forget that if you are also one of the biggies with all of the $$$$$
you can get together with the other biggies and fix prices in your area

 

[Streyken]

I think it's already been mentioned in various forms throughout this thread that price fixing for tree work is a practical impossibility unless everyone agreed to work only on an hourly rate, which given that there are over 50 tree companies in my immediate area is unlikely, plus most customers want a fixed price.

Compared to the big guys my prices are much less, but I still put between 100 and 150 an hour in my pocket and that's working alone with a pickup truck. I'm just now thinking of getting a chipper. There are many jobs I pass on to friends with larger crews and equipment. Work hard, work fast, work safe.

I don't want to have to go to work. I like my job three days a week, if I feel like taking the day off and doing something with the family I do. I spend 2-3 months a year in Mexico and I don't have to worry about employees or equipment overhead. I've been doing this a fair while and I'm constantly having to draw boundaries to stay small, the upside to me personally is worth it; it all depends on your circumstance, desire and priorities.

 

[Soul Assassin]

I started with a pickup. I also had a BS in Forestry and prior training in climbing.

At the time, I didn't have a bunch of cash to dump into equipment. I always carried insurance, bought a saw here and there, new saddle, ropes when the jobs were coming in.

I busted my ass with a "pickup" for two years, and made loyal customers who told all thier friends and relatives etc. I learned every new technique I could find.......dove into the art of arborculture. I wanted it, I was gonna make it happen. I played by the rules.

Four years later, I have more work than I can complete...hundreds of loyal customers, and a thriving tree care company. Not too shabby for a dude starting with a pickup.

 

[hermit63]

Timber hauler I hear you. I sympathize. My thoughts are this:

If I could set the price for treework I would and it would be high!
Let all the politics aside and consider, I risk my life for money. Bottom line, I don't do this for fun. That is a side benefit for me because I have to work to pay the bills. I can say for all tree guys that this is real work. Not sitting at some lame desk and punching buttons all day.

I would set the price so high people would respect us even more because right now they don't. Some do, but most don't, even though they can't or wouldn't do it. There is always someone cheaper. I say that to about 90% of the clients I bid because that's what they always tell me. It is frustrating as hell. Wish we could just throw down a price like $12.00 for a steak and people would pay because they want it. Or lets say $3.50 for a beer at some joints and they think we can afford this by working for the wood!

I had some guy ask me last week on a bid if I would do it for the wood!
I about fell out of my chair. We were sitting at his kitchen table. I had to get out of there quick, cause I felt insulted, to be honest, and a little pissed. Oh well, I can tell from his yard that he doesn't want to spend a dime on his trees.

I work with guys that have portable mills,
If anyone asks if you will do it for the wood tell'em its not worth it...but that they can pay you extra for leaving it.

 

[hermit63]

yah hoo

I should also say that I can remember 20+ years back when I first placed a sling w/a biner on a limb above me, I was walking out on to rederect, and was yelled at by my supervisor to take it out because, I would have to climb back to it to get it out, and that if myTIP was in the correct place I would'nt need it. This was the best climber and tree company in the state at the time.
I have worked w/ the best and have been doing side work for a long time now on a shoe string. I hope anyone with a ladder, Mcullah, and a pickup gose out there to trim (raise) a tree, just makes me look that much better. Also a tree around me is not "trimmed" til its toped, so go fly your bucket wat chance do I have?

 

[Timberhauler]

This is what this thread is conveying so far:

- if a guy has a chainsaw other than a Stihl or a Husky, he is a jackleg.

- if a guy has a pickup truck and any chainsaw other than Stihl & Husky, he is a jackleg

- if a guy does'nt have massive overhead in the form of $200,000+ chippers, fancy trucks, boom lifts, he is a jackleg

- a guy can be experienced in climbing, own a Blaze2 or Versital Saddle, nice ropes, and because all he owns is some climbing gear and a, gasp, tiny stump grinder, he is still a jackleg

- only those with a gazzillibillion $$$ worth of equipment are allowed to work, everyone else is a jackleg that should not be working.

- even though this is America, and people can charge whatever they want, those that charge less than the guy with all the fancy equipment, are jacklegs.

- if a guy cannot remove all the tree trimmings and firewood in one day, he is a jackleg.


wow

In my opinion a jackleg is someone in this business who is out there with little or no experience at what they are doing,purposely underbidding jobs,carrying no insurance,and doing poor quality work.There are several of them around here that will go to a homeowner and tell them to get a couple of quotes,then they will come back with a far cheaper bid...Or they they will even advertise something like "Gauranteed cheaper than the rest"...I personally could careless what kind of equipment they have.Everyone has to start somewhere,and I never said I had a problem with the ones working out of a pick-up truck,and I could care less what kind of saws they are using..I have several friends who have just recently left a large outfit they were working for and trying to make it on their own,I'm not putting anyone down for trying to better themselves.But there is a difference in trying to better yourself and purposely trying to take jobs away from other people.Having all the equipment that I now need,I didn't get it by being overly expensive,I got it by building a large enough customer base to where I could afford it...For me,my equipment is not about charging more,it's for production and getting jobs done more safely and effeciently.

 

[treevet]

In my opinion a jackleg is someone in this business who is out there with little or no experience at what they are doing,purposely underbidding jobs,carrying no insurance,and doing poor quality work.There are several of them around here that will go to a homeowner and tell them to get a couple of quotes,then they will come back with a far cheaper bid...Or they they will even advertise something like "Gauranteed cheaper than the rest"...I personally could careless what kind of equipment they have.Everyone has to start somewhere,and I never said I had a problem with the ones working out of a pick-up truck,and I could care less what kind of saws they are using..I have several friends who have just recently left a large outfit they were working for and trying to make it on their own,I'm not putting anyone down for trying to better themselves.But there is a difference in trying to better yourself and purposely trying to take jobs away from other people.Having all the equipment that I now need,I didn't get it by being overly expensive,I got it by building a large enough customer base to where I could afford it...For me,my equipment is not about charging more,it's for production and getting jobs done more safely and effeciently.

Timberhauler, I agree not "putting anyone down for trying to better themselves" as long as they "just do the right thing". Missleading customers re ins coverage or need for removal or any other treatment while trying to better themselves financially is what gets us. A company drove 60 miles to my town 2 weeks and told an oldlady she should take 5 trees down bcs of EAB. We don t have EAB in the area yet and 2 of the trees weren t ashes.

 

[Treeman587]

In my opinion a jackleg is someone in this business who is out there with little or no experience at what they are doing,purposely underbidding jobs,carrying no insurance,and doing poor quality work.There are several of them around here that will go to a homeowner and tell them to get a couple of quotes,then they will come back with a far cheaper bid...Or they they will even advertise something like "Gauranteed cheaper than the rest"...I personally could careless what kind of equipment they have.Everyone has to start somewhere,and I never said I had a problem with the ones working out of a pick-up truck,and I could care less what kind of saws they are using..I have several friends who have just recently left a large outfit they were working for and trying to make it on their own,I'm not putting anyone down for trying to better themselves.But there is a difference in trying to better yourself and purposely trying to take jobs away from other people.Having all the equipment that I now need,I didn't get it by being overly expensive,I got it by building a large enough customer base to where I could afford it...For me,my equipment is not about charging more,it's for production and getting jobs done more safely and effeciently.

 

[SRT-Tech]

In my opinion a jackleg is someone in this business who is out there with little or no experience at what they are doing,purposely underbidding jobs,carrying no insurance,and doing poor quality work.There are several of them around here that will go to a homeowner and tell them to get a couple of quotes,then they will come back with a far cheaper bid...Or they they will even advertise something like "Gauranteed cheaper than the rest"...I personally could careless what kind of equipment they have.Everyone has to start somewhere,and I never said I had a problem with the ones working out of a pick-up truck,and I could care less what kind of saws they are using..I have several friends who have just recently left a large outfit they were working for and trying to make it on their own,I'm not putting anyone down for trying to better themselves.But there is a difference in trying to better yourself and purposely trying to take jobs away from other people.Having all the equipment that I now need,I didn't get it by being overly expensive,I got it by building a large enough customer base to where I could afford it...For me,my equipment is not about charging more,it's for production and getting jobs done more safely and effeciently.

i know TH, i was just being my usual caustic, sarcastic self. Humor is all, jest humour.

 

[ropensaddle]

frustraited

hey I understand where you are coming from I have been slow this year since mid dec. It stinks and I have even thought of and applied to work a job!
The thing is the pickup guys may even be working without a privilege license which has a hefty fine. I can't wish bad on no one but honest hard working businesses are the ones that suffer the most! And even though I know change is inevitable I work to prosper not to get by! The way things are structured in our country; at present, all anyone can do is get by. I started part time with a pickup, climb gear and necessities, but was a foreman on power line trimming over twenty years and quit this year due to nepotism.
I had been operating part time successfully because I only done customers that would pay my price. Now that I have a bucket, grapple, stumper,tractor and am full time its so hard to make profit that I almost wish I stayed pickup guy! I had a dream at first that may become a nightmare soon!
I have been getting rude to the salesmen that seem to have radar and call in times they shouldn't, but if something doesn't break soon I will have to go back to work for someone else. I am in debt because of the cutthroats and they are stealing work but can't be making money cause I have had to lower prices to get any work and I get work done faster and better than they do with no equipment but I hate to lower price when everyone that I pay are raising them especially insurance!! funny thing never had a claim why does it go up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if this doesn't help and for the way this is broken up having trouble with computer:welcome:
]

 

[Soul Assassin]

hey I understand where you are coming from I have been slow this year since mid dec. It stinks and I have even thought of and applied to work a job!
The thing is the pickup guys may even be working without a privilege license which has a hefty fine. I can't wish bad on no one but honest hard working businesses are the ones that suffer the most! And even though I know change is inevitable I work to prosper not to get by! The way things are structured in our country; at present, all anyone can do is get by. I started part time with a pickup, climb gear and necessities, but was a foreman on power line trimming over twenty years and quit this year due to nepotism.
I had been operating part time successfully because I only done customers that would pay my price. Now that I have a bucket, grapple, stumper,tractor and am full time its so hard to make profit that I almost wish I stayed pickup guy! I had a dream at first that may become a nightmare soon!
I have been getting rude to the salesmen that seem to have radar and call in times they shouldn't, but if something doesn't break soon I will have to go back to work for someone else. I am in debt because of the cutthroats and they are stealing work but can't be making money cause I have had to lower prices to get any work and I get work done faster and better than they do with no equipment but I hate to lower price when everyone that I pay are raising them especially insurance!! funny thing never had a claim why does it go up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry if this doesn't help and for the way this is broken up having trouble with computer:welcome:
]

When I first asked a small sucessfull businesman what the key to making it in any business..the most important thing I asked, he replied "Grow as your business grows". This is not directed at the above poster, but I have seen so many times guys get into the biz, buy all this expensive equipment, max out credit cards...and then it gets slow.....and then they sweat...the bank comes a knockin'. To blame it on hacks underbidding in my humble opinion is a lame excuse (again, not directed at anyone in particular).

If you make smart choices, keep your feet on the ground, work hard and ethically, you'll be fine. If all your equipment is paid for, and you have low overhead, you have the advantage of keeping your sanity when things get slow or you're in a slump. If you stick with it, it will turn around.

When I was The "pickup" guy, many times I would see competition walking up as soon as I left, to give a second, third bid.......these guys always had the new trucks...etc. I could give a lower bid, make money and laugh at these guys...while they sat there wondering "Why can't I get the jobs ?" The only difference between me and them was I had low overhead, an almost obsessive desire to make my biz a winner, and I owed no one.

In my view "cut-throats, who steal work" is called capitalism, if they are playing by the rules and are qualified and knowledgable. Let's face it, swim with the sharks.......change in an instant, turn on a dime. Blaming your business failure to "hacks" who under bid you (again, not meant for a specific poster) is an attitude sure to help you go belly up. I prefer to look at what I can do to beat my competition, and it's not that hard when I see these guys riding around in new pickup trucks, leased....with quizzical looks on thier faces.....lol, while a half a million dollars in equipment sits in the yard ready to go......back to the bank. Lol. Just my 3 cents.