Low ball bidders.Its getting crazy

[howel07264]

Things are getting crazy out here. Here is my dilemma,I have been grinding stumps for a local tree company for several years at a price that reflects the productivity of my machines,$200 run hr. for a carlton7015trx60hp.and $150 run http://economystumpremoval.com/hour for a carlton 4400 wheeled 44hp. I always bill him in tenths of an hour and let him pay me every month. Yesterday the owner calls me and says he is going with a newbie who will work for half as much. then he asked me if i will match the offer. Told him thanks but no thanks.I guess i will just wait for the newbie to go bust and see what happens.http://economystumpremoval.com/

 

[capetrees]

You charge per hour? I would think that has a lot of variables in other words, when does the hour start and when does it end, an hour meter on the machine? I've always charged by the inch, that way, regardless of how long it takes, the owner knows his stumps will be ground down and he can actually see what it is that I will do for the money.

But you're right, price chopping is getting crazy.

 

[howel07264]

You charge per hour? I would think that has a lot of variables in other words, when does the hour start and when does it begin, an hour meter on the machine? I've always charged by the inch, that way, regardless of how long it takes, the owner knows his stumps will be ground down and he can actually see what it is that I will do for the money.

But you're right, price chopping is getting crazy.

I don't bid each job like you would a home owner job. The tree contractor knew my rate beforehand. i used the meter on the machine from the time it cranked up to the time i turned it off plus $1 per mile to and from jobsite on any jobs out of a 10 mile radius. on all other work I charge by the inch.(see my pricing page on my website)http://economystumpremoval.com/

 

[kkottemann]

I hate that!!

 

[chip's-tree]

low ballers all go broke and quit but they cause hell before they do...we have 3 or 4 here in this small town. they start out doing it on the side then they go full time and that is when they learn that they are not making any money ....hang in there man.

 

[mckeetree]

low ballers all go broke and quit but they cause hell before they do...we have 3 or 4 here in this small town. they start out doing it on the side then they go full time and that is when they learn that they are not making any money ....hang in there man.

It's a classic.

 

[Sunrise Guy]

low ballers all go broke and quit but they cause hell before they do...we have 3 or 4 here in this small town. they start out doing it on the side then they go full time and that is when they learn that they are not making any money ....hang in there man.

Trouble is, in a town of larger size, for each low-baller who calls it quits after his own bids put him out of busines, there are two more new outfits ready to step up to the plate pulling the same crap. There is no hanging in there, as in riding the storm out. Our growing population and certain enforcement issues gaurantee that you have to change with the times or you, too, will be packing it in.

 

[defensiblespace]

Low bidding hacks!

Funny, I came to the site to complain about the same thing and found this post. I bid on felling and cleaning and hauling the limbs of 9, 150'+ white firs recently. 3 of them require a crane removal and there is a high element of risk to the structure and the crew here. 7 of the trees are on a steep slope above the house and the other 2 are rite above the house and garage. I bid a certain amount on this property and another bidder comes in and says he has 25 years of logging experience and he's going to drop the trees from the base for 1/4 of the price. Then another bidder is going to come in and clean up the limbs for 1/3 of the price as myself. First of all, this property is located in a forest. Therefore, dropping these trees from the base is going to leave a path of destruction to the other trees on the way down. Next thing, I don't care if you've been logging 25 years. I highly doubt there is any logger out there that can honestly say they've been 100% accurate with their drops throughout their career. Next another guy calls me that I have a verbal agreement with and claims someone came in with a cheaper bid after me. Can I match it? I'm bidding against unlicensed "contractors" with no insurance, paying people under the table. I'm bidding against guys pruning with spikes and topping trees. I'm bidding against general contractors that don't have enough houses to build, so they are cutting trees and I'm even competing against some @#$& in the area cutting trees down with a sawzall and charging next to nothing. What happened to this business? I'm licensed, have workers comp, liability and am a cert arborist. I think I'm just going to let all my insurance and licenses lapse and go under the table until I get caught. Then I'll just change the name of my business and start all over again.

 

[treesquirrel]

What happened to this business? I'm licensed, have workers comp, liability and am a cert arborist. I think I'm just going to let all my insurance and licenses lapse and go under the table until I get caught. Then I'll just change the name of my business and start all over again.

I hear you brother. I see a lot of low balling here in Atlanta. Most of my biz is referrals and folks like it when their friends highly recommend you.

I have had to adjust my rates to price match on some jobs but there are a good many I cannot match and tell the homeowners to be careful and to verify insurance. Sometimes they call you back when they find the nutcase that quoted a hunnerd bucks for a 36 inch oak is uninsured.

One thing I see more often now are rental chippers and loaders on tree jobs. It used to be rare to see tree operations with rented equipment around here. Everyone I am familiar with has their own equipment.

Hang in there. this spring and summer I found myself doing as much bobcat and general tractor work as tree work. as a matter of fact I have probably had more cash flow just from my bobcat as tree work the past two months. I have been called to do some site prep, drainage work, and grade work for some homeowners and even demolished a driveway for a concrete finisher.

Try to diversify some with the equipment you have. If I can get a minimum of 400 clams to go do a half day of bobcat work I load up and go. 650 for a full day and with my experience to do the job right most folks that I know are willing to pay. It is surprising how many folks who own a skid or track loader don't know how to run them for anything besides loading logs on a trailer.

Get what you can, hold on, the profitable tree work should bounce back eventually. Keep in mind that in a bad economy its easy for people to ignore trees when struggling to pay the regular bills. Hacks capitalize on this.

 

[computeruser]

Sad truth is that a lot of folks simply don't care about skill, the equipment used, or even insurance. And many who do care simply cannot afford to pay for it these days.

When a guy is making $600/week, and your tree bid comes in at $1500 and a hack can do it for $500, well, that is the difference between two and a half weeks of work and less than one week of work. I can't begrudge the customer for taking a gamble on the cheaper work, because his budget simply cannot accommodate the professional price. The hack will probably get the tree down without damaging anything too important, so from the customer's perspective, this is a fair gamble to take.

 

[chip's-tree]

yes this business can get nerve racking at times---I am working my butt off lately and not making any money but it will get better again, it always does. I bid a job the other day and the HO told me that i might want to sub out one of the trees to a few guys from another community (uninsured hacks )because they said they could drop it whole--through the neighbors trees and yard---I told him that this was not logging...
one low baller awhile back dropped a large pine across his trailer and blowed out all the tires, he did miss the house by 11 feet and the home owner was not a happy camper.....I got the next job from them
I have rode out some bad times in this business and the older I get the more I think about hanging it up too....but heck after 30yrs of cutting trees.

 

[mckeetree]

Trouble is, in a town of larger size, for each low-baller who calls it quits after his own bids put him out of busines, there are two more new outfits ready to step up to the plate pulling the same crap.

We finally got rid of a fly in the ointment this past Jan. when he finally lost all his equipment to his "backers" because he wouldn't pay them. I bought one idiot out last Feb. and basically junked all his junk. Got word yesterday another local jackass has grande problems with the bank and should belly up within days. But there are always more to take their place.