Ms400 vs Ms461 vs Ms462 vs 500i?

[ace4059]

No doubt a ported 400 would pull the chain with that bar. It would be easier on the back because it’s lighter.
But the porting costs $400-$500 plus shipping it off. Then factor in the HO oiler for $75-100 and you would be in the price range of the 462.
I was under the impression that the OP was wanting to save a little money because he was looking at used and also the 461.
If the OP has the money to spend, then go ported.

 

[guym3]

Thanks for posting the great video. Slightly surprised at how slow the 462 was. Still I guess if you watch Joe's dyno mods comparison of 460/461/462 on youtube channel you can see that the 461 would be much better suited for this task.

I'd suggest the OP takes a look at the 461. I love mine, with great torque and responds well to simple things like MM and base gasket delete.

 

[MustangMike]

Be careful with recommending a base gasket delete on a 461, it does not work out well on all of them, ditto on 460s (usually works well on 044/440s), but always check your squish and on the 461 other clearances. IIRC I believe some of them had a problem with either piston clearance or the saddle with a base gasket delete.

Also, many 461s have soft spark plug threads, and they tend to run hot unless you remove the carb limiters and do a muffler mod. (It was the result of emissions compliance). They are also a bit heavier than a 460 as a result of the longer case required for the transfer feed in the front of the cylinder.

While most 461s have more torque (in stock form) than 460s, properly ported there is not much (if any) difference, and while it is more difficult to achieve, a 440/460 hybrid can also have incredible torque if ported properly. (The porting has to offset the smaller case capacity that tends to generate high RPMs but less torque).

Cylinder squish and timing #s on 460s were all over the place, but a few of them ran very well. The original "Magnum" 046s (that came from the factory with a DP muffler and 046-D jug) were known for generally being strong runners.

 

[MustangMike]

I just watched Joes great video on these 3 saws ported, and they are all remarkably close. When you factor in that the 462 is smaller and has a short stroke, it did remarkably well. I have 2 ported 462s and I love them, but they perform better when you operate them with a softer touch that keeps the RPMS high.

Conversely, I have a 440/460 Hybrid ported by Doc Al that I can really lean on, even with 28" full comp in hardwood. I run 20 and 24" bars on the 462s. The 462s are fast cutting saws, don't need to be tuned, and have the clean air filter technology that I appreciate.

 

[ace4059]

I don’t know anything about the older saws of the 044, 460,or 461 so I can’t comment there
But,
I’ll second what MustangMike has to say.
The 462 will stall out easily, just like the 400. It has to be ran at high rpm and let it “self feed” by not putting pressure on the saw and forcing it through the cut. Let the chain do the work. It actually cuts faster this way and any pressure bogs the saw down and makes it cut slower. It’s a fast saw when cut like this. With a 20”-25” bar, the 462 can out cut a 500i.

 

[guym3]

Sensible reply from Mustangmike about porting. Checking squish is always a good idea!
I find the 10% more torque and at 2000 rpm less makes the 461 a very different saw when buried with a long bar in hardwood. I certainly love mine.

 

[Courage]

Hey guys, just want to thank all of you for contributing to my chainsaw knowledge base, and helping me decide on which orphaned saw I'd be best off adopting.
Sorry for not responding to all of your posts! This thread really took of when I wasn't paying attention, and I didn't realize that it was 4 pages long!
Anyway, just wanted to update y'all.
I realized I had some financial goals that I really wanted to prioritize over a new "toy", since my MS260 does do the job, so i started looking at slightly older saws, to save some money. Since i dont use it professionally, i figured I could get by with a few less features of the new saws. I really wanted an MS462, so when I saw an 044 listed for $400, I decided i should through the guy an offer, since that is the 462's predecessor...
I purchased a 10mm wrist pin 044 today for $300. The guy said he had his dealer rebuild it about 10 years ago, as it had some problems with the jug? Seemed odd, but it had good compression, and seemed pretty clean all things considered. The chain break is slightly cracked, and it's time for a new bar and chain, but the airfilter is very clean, so I decided to give it a go.
Any favorite bar and chain combos for 044s? Thinking maybe a 25 or 28" light bar of some flavor, but open for ideas...
Can someone also please explain to me the difference between semi chisel and full chisel? Pros and cons of each, too please! Kinda leaning towards full comp to make the saw less likely to kick back, and also smoother to run, but idk, most of the guys around here swear by skip tooth.
Also, how do TsuMura light bars compare to Stihl light bars? I like my buddy's Stihl light bar, but the TsuMura is almost half the weight...

 

[sean donato]

044 isn't the 462 predecessor in any way other then it's an older saw then the 462.
Tsumura bars are good quality. I run several of them.

 

[MustangMike]

10mm 044s are VG saws, but I like mine with either 20 or 24" bar in hardwood. Softwood it pulls a 28" just fine.

The KS jug saws were some of the best runners.

Also, the "red lever" period was good.

 

[MustangMike]

Can someone also please explain to me the difference between semi chisel and full chisel? Pros and cons of each, too please!

Full chisel will generally cut much faster in clean wood. I always use it. In dirty wood, semi chisel will hold up longer.

I (personally) would rather just keep my chains sharp and cut faster.

Full chisel will have a sharper tooth in the corner, semi chisel has a more rounded cutter profile. The corner is not as square.

Full chisel can be easily converted to square file, semi chisel cannot be square filed.

 

[Courage]

10mm 044s are VG saws, but I like mine with either 20 or 24" bar in hardwood. Softwood it pulls a 28" just fine.

The KS jug saws were some of the best runners.

Also, the "red lever" period was good.

Ok, right on! What does the KS jug mean?
This one isn't a red lever, unless the lever was replaced...

Full chisel will generally cut much faster in clean wood. I always use it. In dirty wood, semi chisel will hold up longer.

I (personally) would rather just keep my chains sharp and cut faster.

Full chisel will have a sharper tooth in the corner, semi chisel has a more rounded cutter profile. The corner is not as square.

Full chisel can be easily converted to square file, semi chisel cannot be square filed.

Gotcha, that makes sense about full chisel. Do any chains come square filed?

 

[Courage]

044 isn't the 462 predecessor in any way other then it's an older saw then the 462.
Tsumura bars are good quality. I run several of them.

I'm confused, didn't the line up go 044, MS440, MS441, and then MS462?

 

[guym3]

My ported red lever 12mm 044 is happiest with a 25inch bar in hardwood. It's well balanced and one of the saws I reach for the most frequently. The 461 is a much heavier more cumbersome beast but if I'm running 30inches then I reach for that.
Don't forget the 046 460 461 then 462 in the line up!