Ms400 vs Ms461 vs Ms462 vs 500i?

[MustangMike]

I agree it depends on the size wood you usually cut (bar length). A shorter bar is MUCH easier to handle and be safe with. Also, over cutting in a log pile is a PITA. Semi Chisel is a good option.

If the log is just occasionally slightly longer than your bar, reach over the top and cut the backside a bit, then just buck as normal.

Square file files are a lot more expensive and harder to find and you have to learn how to do it (you file from outside in, not inside out like w/round). But square file will cut a bit faster and is better for both ripping and milling (w/o changing the angles) so I square file all my chains. It is a learning process, but once you get used to it, it goes just as fast as round filing.

This, and other items on their site are very helpful. Always keep the corner of the file in the corner of the tooth, and for all around go 3 - 45 degree angles (tilt, down, back). This will provide a durable edge that cuts well. Faster angles will dull more quickly.

https://www.madsens1.com/how-to-sharpen-square-chisel-chain-with

I much prefer the 6-sided rectangular files to the triangle shaped ones. They also are better for taking down your rakers.

 

[MustangMike]

So where approximately where in the timeline would my new 044 fit? The first 3 digits in the serial number are 123

The first # (1) is the location of manufacture (1-Germany).

Your saw is "early". If it was registered, a dealer could tell you when it was sold. You likely have the smaller bolts holding the recoil.

The SN on my red-lever saw purchased new in Dec 92 is 126234303. I believe all 044s were manufactured in Germany.

IIRC correctly, SNs soon after mine were 12mm 044s.

Remember, these saws were made when we were still using leaded gasoline, (lead was a lubricant) so use good oil at a good ratio and you should be fine. I use Amsoil Saber at 40:1. It burns clean and gives good protection. Stihl oil has less viscosity and will often produce carbon if used at richer than 50:1.

 

[Courage]

Square file is going to cut faster, but I've never learned how to do it by hand. Plus, IF you choose to use some kind of jig to square file your chain, they are rather expensive IMHO. That's why I use a round file.

Bar length should be dictated by the size of the wood you're cutting. About 2" of your bar length can't reach the wood (more if you're using bigger felling dawgs) so I 28" bar can only reach about 26" into a log. My recommendation is that you want your bar to reach all the way through the cut about 75% of the time. If most of what you are cutting is under 23", then the 25" bar would be great. If most of what you're cutting is over 23", I'd go with the 28" bar.

IMHO, there's no reason to ever have a skip chain on a 25" bar. In your case, I don't think you should need one on a 28" bar either. If you do, then semi-skip should be sufficient. If you decide that a skip chain works better for you on a 28" bar, I'd recommend dropping down to the 25" bar. I'd rather give up the extra bar length (and weight) than reduce the number of cutters in the wood.

Gotcha makes sense about the square filing.
Most of what I cut a 20 would even be fine for, but, I've been running into some bigger would lately, so idk. I might go 25 to start with, and then get a 28 when I get a 60cc saw, and put the 25 on the 60cc. Guess I should figure out if the next saw will be bigger or smaller than my 044.

I agree it depends on the size wood you usually cut (bar length). A shorter bar is MUCH easier to handle and be safe with. Also, over cutting in a log pile is a PITA. Semi Chisel is a good option.

If the log is just occasionally slightly longer than your bar, reach over the top and cut the backside a bit, then just buck as normal.

Square file files are a lot more expensive and harder to find and you have to learn how to do it (you file from outside in, not inside out like w/round). But square file will cut a bit faster and is better for both ripping and milling (w/o changing the angles) so I square file all my chains. It is a learning process, but once you get used to it, it goes just as fast as round filing.

This, and other items on their site are very helpful. Always keep the corner of the file in the corner of the tooth, and for all around go 3 - 45 degree angles (tilt, down, back). This will provide a durable edge that cuts well. Faster angles will dull more quickly.

https://www.madsens1.com/how-to-sharpen-square-chisel-chain-with

I much prefer the 6-sided rectangular files to the triangle shaped ones. They also are better for taking down your rakers.

Thanks for explaining about the chain differences and filing! I really appreciate it! Not sure if I'll stick with round, or go to square. I've always filed round, but my dad's always filed square...

The first # (1) is the location of manufacture (1-Germany).

Your saw is "early". If it was registered, a dealer could tell you when it was sold. You likely have the smaller bolts holding the recoil.

The SN on my red-lever saw purchased new in Dec 92 is 126234303. I believe all 044s were manufactured in Germany.

IIRC correctly, SNs soon after mine were 12mm 044s.

Remember, these saws were made when we were still using leaded gasoline, (lead was a lubricant) so use good oil at a good ratio and you should be fine. I use Amsoil Saber at 40:1. It burns clean and gives good protection. Stihl oil has less viscosity and will often produce carbon if used at richer than 50:1.

Gotcha. Are the smaller recoil bolts a problem typically? Thanks for the oil recommendation! Sounds like a good idea!

 

[MustangMike]

The smaller bolts are not a problem, just recoils are not interchangeable as a result. I've heard of folks drilling and re-taping the holes.

I meant to say semi-skip, not semi chisel.

If your Dad does square file, I would learn it from him. I like to put the bar in a vice, have a shortened paint stirrer in one hand (that I press against the back of the tooth to keep it still) and the square file in my other hand. I do one side, then switch hands and reverse the direction of the bar in the vice and do the other side.

Once you get used to it, it will go just as fast as round file, and the file will fit into the tooth like a glove.

I like the versatility of square file chain, good for crosscut, ripping and milling.

 

[Courage]

The smaller bolts are not a problem, just recoils are not interchangeable as a result. I've heard of folks drilling and re-taping the holes.

I meant to say semi-skip, not semi chisel.

If your Dad does square file, I would learn it from him. I like to put the bar in a vice, have a shortened paint stirrer in one hand (that I press against the back of the tooth to keep it still) and the square file in my other hand. I do one side, then switch hands and reverse the direction of the bar in the vice and do the other side.

Once you get used to it, it will go just as fast as round file, and the file will fit into the tooth like a glove.

I like the versatility of square file chain, good for crosscut, ripping and milling.

Gotcha that all makes sense. Thanks so much for your help! Really appreciate it!
I got to buck up about a half cord of 15" black pine this evening. I switched the b&c from my MS260 which is currently under the weather onto it for until I get it its own b&c. That 044 rips and snorts in comparison to my 260! Makes wood cutting feel like a joke with how fast it is! With how natural and light it felt with the 20 from my 260, I'm thinking I'll go 25". It's not like I run into HUGE wood all that often, and from running my dad's 046 with a 28" recently, I don't think the longer bar benefits of not being bent over as much, alleviates the added strain of the extra weight hanging off the saw, but idk.

 

[MustangMike]

I purchased my 044 new in December 1992. The place (an equipment rental) did not want to sell it to me, as I was not a pro. I was heating my house with wood at the time and had just purchased another load of logs. (aprox 6-7 cord). The 044 was on sale (which never happens with Stihl pro saws) because the place was discontinuing handling Stihl saws. I was running a Homelite 330 at the time.

The guy responded to me that he did not want to sell me the saw "because it cut too fast". I exclaimed "That is exactly what I need". He reluctantly sold it to me. The saw was not cheap, even marked down, but my brother and I were so impressed with it that we have only purchased Stihl saws since then. It was also a lot more trouble free than the Homelite, which had persistent starter recoil problems.

My 044 runs like it is ported, but no port work has been done to the cylinder. I did a base gasket delete, dual port muffler, timing advance and low restriction "winter" filter. It was my only saw for 18 years and still impresses me when I use it. I've rebuilt the carb once and had to replace the springs under both the Hi and Low screws (they don't come with the tune up kits) in order to get the saw to "keep" its tune.

It took decades for anyone to come out with a saw as light and strong as a 044, but Stihl finally did it with the 462. I have two of them, both ported, one with 20", one with 24". They usually get the call as you don't have to worry about changing the tune if you change elevations, and air filter cleaning is infrequent. That said, I will keep my 044 till I can't pull the trigger anymore.

 

[Wyoming_Outback]

So I can't speak to the 461, but would't consider it, given the availability of new 400's, 462's, and 500's out there. Personally, I own a 400 and 500, and run my dad's 462, as well. Both the carbed saws are M-Tronic. I would say if you want a saw with a 28" bar that can run full comp, and you're getting into wood over 24" often enough, the 500 is worth it. Slightly heavier than a 462, but worth it. Runs a lot faster and more power. I do about 10-30 cords of wood a year, depending on how much people want to buy, plus the 7 cords/year for my parents. Have 1 full season on the 500, and the fall on my 400 (so maybe another 10-15 cords). 400 is great for what it is, which is smaller than the 462, and larger than the 362, but I am not personally picking it up to go fell, limb, and buck a tree, unless it's pretty small. If you have the funds, a 462/500 is an amazing two saw plan, if not, your 260 and a 500 would be my take on the situation. While I love the 462, I love my dad's and my own 044's more for some reason. Maybe nostalgia, maybe I'm a couple screws loose of a basket case.

 

[Lionsfan]

This would be my choice if I had to settle on one bar and chain combo for that 044. You can find a Tsumara lightweight 25" for $100. Make sure you buy a .050 gauge, not a .063.
You can buy a 3 pack of C83, 84 dl, full chisel 3/8 Husqvarna chains for $62.14 from Amazon. Get yourself a dozen good 7/32 files, I like Husqvarna's intensive cut.
Get a yourself a progressive raker gauge and a couple good raker files. Leave the skip-tooth chains and square filing for guys who like to tinker with things.