Need some wedge wisdom

[TheJollyLogger]

as stated above, the wedge is meant to keep the kerf open while you finish the cuts, it can then be used to lift the tree over the balance point, but only after the cuts are finished.

if you are stacking wedges, the you will for sure need a wedge in long before you finish cutting enough, the tree will sit back and then you are really hooped.

Should I mention that standard practice is to leave the saw in the cut, until the very last minute, or until the hold wood is sufficiently small enough the any more cutting would be unwise? Personally I cut plastic wedges all the damned time, and occasionally smash them into the saw (a real PITA btw) so if they were steel...

Furthermore, when cutting a hard back leaner, most folks leave more hold wood, so they can get the tree lifted some while they can be sure its not going to pop off the stump, once its stood up you can then nibble at the hold wood and more often then not the compressed wood around the wedges will return some and its enough to tip the tree the rest of the way over.

so if you advocate for using steel wedges, some jack ass is going to try it rip the cutting edges off every link of chain and be in a world of hurt and possibly blind.

Yeah a guy can use a steel wedge when the saw is not in the kerf, but who actually does this? (not any logger that plans on making a living at it) and who in their right mind is going to drag a 7# pound single purpose wedge with them through the woods? (if you say but the truck is only 10' away you can please **** right off).

and no, common sense isn't common, so we should all try and give the correct idea, not the fringe nutter ideas that only work in narrow minded situations.

So I guess there are more then a handful of reasons to leave a saw in the cut, where it could and likely will make contact with any wedge, so not having a steel wedge in the way at all is maybe a good decision?

You beat me to it, lol

 

[square1]

the wedge is meant to keep the kerf open

Because when you are cutting a back leaner you get a wedge in as soon as there is room, to keep the kerf open.

No 5hit? Good info, but useless to the OP in the scenario given.
It's like they asked where to get ORD and you guys advising where Rec Gas is sold


^couple wedges from my gear box^

If the OP were a "professional logger", do you really think they'd be here asking the question they did? Specific information was requested about a given situation. The steel wedge is a viable option, sorry it hurt your feelings. More than one way to skin a cat. Quit being so d*mn*d defensive.

 

[TheJollyLogger]

No 5hit? Good info, but useless to the OP in the scenario given.
It's like they asked where to get ORD and you guys advising where Rec Gas is sold

View attachment 944456
^couple wedges from my gear box^

If the OP were a "professional logger", do you really think they'd be here asking the question they did? Specific information was requested about a given situation. The steel wedge is a viable option, sorry it hurt your feelings. More than one way to skin a cat. Quit being so d*mn*d defensive.

Then give good advice. Suggesting a homeowner should switch to steel wedges is just bad advice.

 

[square1]

Then give good advice. Suggesting a homeowner should switch to steel wedges is just bad advice.

I have no problem using a steel splitting wedge for extra lift

 

[ZinTrees]

you specifically quote two separate parts to distract from the rest of what he's saying

I dont even like TheJollyLogger, im still going to side with him here

 

[square1]

now to specifically quote two separate parts to distract from the rest of what he's saying

I dont even like TheJollyLogger, im still going to side with him here

Guess I missed were thejollylogger specified using a steel wedge for extra lift was "not for homeowners" in his original acceptance of the practice. Sorry you kids got your panties in a bunch over an age old practice.
What was your former user name here? You remind me of someone that is no longer here (under their original name) due to being called out for being obstinate to end no matter how wrong they were.

 

[ZinTrees]

never changed my username

im the same person ive always been
LGBFJB

 

[TheJollyLogger]

Square, where you derailed this thread was when you said there was no chance of a chain contacting a steel wedge

 

[square1]

Square, where you derailed this thread was when you said there was no chance of a chain contacting a steel wedge

There is no possibility of a moving chain & steel wedge coming in contact if common sense prevails

 

[TheJollyLogger]

So read your post. It is obvious you have never been in the tree industry professionally, in any way shape or fashion.

COMMON SENSE NEVER PREVAILS!

That why we work so hard to idiotproof this industry, because it is filled with idiots. So to say there is no possibility of a moving chain coming in contact with a steel wedge unless common sense prevails tells me you have never done this commercially, because if it is in the truck, some dumbass newbie will do it.

 

[square1]

So read your post. It is obvious you have never been in the tree industry professionally, in any way shape or fashion.

Absolutely, 100%, unequivocally, consistent with your drivel, and wrong again.
This thread isn't about professional logging. It's about a everyday user not worrying about production, not concerned with being unable to carry every needed tool through the woods, having one question. That being how to get additional lift when felling against the lean.

to say there is no possibility of a moving chain coming in contact with a steel wedge unless common sense prevails

Huh? I'll type this real slow for you for the final time. If the moving chain (you understand this is used to make cuts) and steel wedge (you understand this is being used to lift the tree after the cuts have been made, not hold the backcut open, are not in the same tree at the same time they cannot come in contact. It's physics.

I have no problem using a steel splitting wedge for extra lift once the backcut is finished

^The subject being discussed°

but you will still need a plastic wedge initially.

^Your attempt to save face^

Since you're so concerned about keeping things open with a plastic wedge I suggest you place a plastic wedge between your ears to open your mind.
<square1 stomps the dust from his boots, shakes head & walks away>

 

[rwoods]

... Does anybody make a double tall wedge?

In a weak moment three years ago I bought one of these to qualify for free shipping. I have used it only once for falling; just a couple of weeks ago. I could barely drive the thing with a 5# axe. Others may have different experiences. I would not buy one again.




Ron

 

[Ted Jenkins]

I have used a steel wedge(s) a few times and I think that I nicked the wedges a couple of times. At the time I was thinking that there was too much pressure to use any thing else but was wrong. Since I have cut maybe five out of some good limbs then drove them in. Once they are in I grab the ones that start out at 3/4" or so and drive them in. This will often allow the first wedges to be pushed out and by that time the tree is often headed the correct direction. I have been surprised at how tough wood wedges can be. I have used as many as eight maybe more. Thanks

 

[northmanlogging]

there's a big yellow wedge, local loggers call it the banana, its 14" or 16" long and about 1.75" thick it drives well enough, but you will need enough girth to make it worth while. I keep a couple around for falling BIGGGG timber, stuff well over 36"

Can't for the life of me think of who makes it, and its dark and raining hard at the mo, otherwise I'd run out and grab one

 

[jamesmcsparron]

Cutting a back leaner yesterday and needed more lift than what one wedge could lift. When I doubled up with 2 wedges after about 3 hits with a hammer, the double stacked wedges would pop out. Never got it jacked up on the double stack wedge. Sure wouldn’t want to get it jacked up on 2 then have them pop out. Give me some words of wisdom what do you do when 1 wedge isn’t enough. Does anybody make a double tall wedge?

Here's a YT video on using a bottle jack to fell a tree. No need for wedges.

I used this method on an eighty foot back leaning spruce and it worked well.
You need to make sure your cuts are accurate and leave a good parallel four to five inch hinge.
I used a 4ton bottle jack with a flat 3"x3" steel plate attached to the top to give more surface area otherwise the head of the jack will imbed itself into the tree.

 

[VW Splitter]

Several good ideas here. Thanks for all the replies. Here is a little more info on what I actually had going on. It was a double trunked oak tree that came together about 6 foot above the ground. It was 34 inches in diameter at the bottom. Each of the two trunks were about 20 inches in diameter. One trunk was about 5° leaning back and the other trunk was about 15° leading back. I put 3 heavy ratchet straps on the 6 foot truck. And one heavy ratchet strap about 15 foot above where the trunks came together. I tied a 7/8” bull rope about 25 feet up on one of the trunks. That rope went down into the woods through a snatch block which was tied to a very large tree. Then back up through the woods to my 4 x 4, 2500 ram pick up with worn out tires. I pretension the rope enough to see the top of the tree move a little bit, thinking I could pull it over when the time came. I made a wide open face cut, about 1/4 of the way into the trunk, real close to the ground. And then started the back cut. I got some plastic wedges set in as soon as I was deep enough to get them in. I continued with the back cut setting more wedges in as I went. Ended up with about 5 wedges in the back cut. I hammered the wedges and as far as they would go, lifting the tree till the wedges were up flush with the tree. All the wedges were on the backside of the back cut and not on the sides. I tried to pull the tree on over with my truck but I was just spinning my wheels on the lightly graveled road. That’s when I started trying the double wedges. And they would start a little bit then pop out. I did notice that hitting them one at a time would get them in a little deeper before they popped out but I never got the weight up off the single wedges. I did have a 20 ton bottle jack with me, and was about to cut a hole in the back of the tree to get the jack inserted in, but before I got that going on, we hooked a small 4 x 4 tractor to the front of my truck and the truck and tractor were able to pull the tree on over. In hindsight, some better treads on my truck could’ve made a difference. And my hinge was a little thick. The hinge should have been about 3 1/2” thick and I’m guessing it was closer to 5” thick. I erred on safety I guess, which made harder to break over. I guess better too thick of a hinge than too thin of a hinge. Thanks for all the ideas. I may try some saw dust or dirt in between the wedges next time. I like the idea of some flat spacers in the back cut also. 99% of the time I always have my truck there handy so carrying lots of extra goods in my bag of tricks is not a problem.
Wish I had taken some pictures. Hindsight is 20/20.
thanks again for all the replies.
Gary

 

[rwoods]

Gary,

Unless you had a Dutchman, I think you identified the main problem - the thick hinge. I have found if the lift resistance is too great, wedges tend to split back, especially stacked ones. You can gauge the resistance by both the wedge movement and the sound. Not sure how to describe the sound (same as the sound a bottomed out wedge makes), but after you hear it you are usually just beating up your wedge and yourself for no gain.

Glad you got it down safely.

Ron

 

[Wow]

Then give good advice. Suggesting a homeowner should switch to steel wedges is just bad advice.

I'm an old guy 75. Almost retired but still piddle. Im teaching my 24 year old Grandson and trying to keep him healthy and alive. For what it's worth I seldom use plastic wedges. I build my own wooden wedges. When you build your own using a table saw and a jig you can build a few about 1 inch thick and a few 1.5 inches thick. We just dropped a big back leaner. A dangerous tree. I loaded my tool belt with about 6 cured elm wedges. We took our time and discussed in detail before the saw was cranked. As soon as there was room We put 2 wedges behind the cut. Then I stacked 2 longer wedges crossed a few degrees. Tap one then the other to make sure they didn't jump out and allow the tree to come back on us. I think of proper wedging as a learned skill. We use wedges to buck at times. A man could write a book about wedges. Steel wedges, since I've seen so many wooden wedges get Chained over time totally unexpected, steel wedges scare me silly. BUT, I have two of them painted orange so I can find them AND on RARE occasions have used them in conjunction with wood wedges. One time I had a bad situation. A big almost dead ( bark had not slipped yet or I'd have passed) hickory tree. Due to buildings there was only 1 place to fall. At some point the saw was REMOVED from the back cut and all that held the tree up was those wood wedges. I put 2 steel wedges in the open back cut and used a sledge hammer to work them in. When the wood wedges got loose I stacked them as back up. The tree finally swung past 90% and slowly started to fall. The fall was picture perfect. Looking at that stump I saw how much load those Steel wedges had on them. Somewhere there's a photo. Two black marks with compression lines. BUT that's a rarity. Normally I'll use a bull rope IF there's some anchor point to secure the line in the fall. You danged sure don't want to take a chance of a chainsaw coming in contact with steel. IMHO, I think most accidents are caused by Rabbits and Bull frogs. We've all seen em. Jumping running croaking and cranking Chainsaws. Fire me for being slow and I'll enjoy another day of good health. Getting in a hurry is a REAL danger. In fact Nervous men make me nervous. It's contagious. Ill run like a wolf in the opposite direction. So my opinion is this. There are times some folks can use Steel wedges but it's as dangerous as Kissing a Rattlesnake. Done with caution you get bragging rights. Otherwise your new name might be, One Eyed one armed Jack. Good day, a Papaw

 

[Ted Jenkins]

I'm an old guy 75. Almost retired but still piddle. Im teaching my 24 year old Grandson and trying to keep him healthy and alive. For what it's worth I seldom use plastic wedges. I build my own wooden wedges. When you build your own using a table saw and a jig you can build a few about 1 inch thick and a few 1.5 inches thick. We just dropped a big back leaner. A dangerous tree. I loaded my tool belt with about 6 cured elm wedges. We took our time and discussed in detail before the saw was cranked. As soon as there was room We put 2 wedges behind the cut. Then I stacked 2 longer wedges crossed a few degrees. Tap one then the other to make sure they didn't jump out and allow the tree to come back on us. I think of proper wedging as a learned skill. We use wedges to buck at times. A man could write a book about wedges. Steel wedges, since I've seen so many wooden wedges get Chained over time totally unexpected, steel wedges scare me silly. BUT, I have two of them painted orange so I can find them AND on RARE occasions have used them in conjunction with wood wedges. One time I had a bad situation. A big almost dead ( bark had not slipped yet or I'd have passed) hickory tree. Due to buildings there was only 1 place to fall. At some point the saw was REMOVED from the back cut and all that held the tree up was those wood wedges. I put 2 steel wedges in the open back cut and used a sledge hammer to work them in. When the wood wedges got loose I stacked them as back up. The tree finally swung past 90% and slowly started to fall. The fall was picture perfect. Looking at that stump I saw how much load those Steel wedges had on them. Somewhere there's a photo. Two black marks with compression lines. BUT that's a rarity. Normally I'll use a bull rope IF there's some anchor point to secure the line in the fall. You danged sure don't want to take a chance of a chainsaw coming in contact with steel. IMHO, I think most accidents are caused by Rabbits and Bull frogs. We've all seen em. Jumping running croaking and cranking Chainsaws. Fire me for being slow and I'll enjoy another day of good health. Getting in a hurry is a REAL danger. In fact Nervous men make me nervous. It's contagious. Ill run like a wolf in the opposite direction. So my opinion is this. There are times some folks can use Steel wedges but it's as dangerous as Kissing a Rattlesnake. Done with caution you get bragging rights. Otherwise your new name might be, One Eyed one armed Jack. Good day, a Papaw

Here in Commiefornia we always have nice Pine or Oak to work with so using plastic wedges seems utterly stupid. However if good wood to make wedges is not available then plastic is it. I have found that by far limbs make the best wedges. I do not use a table saw but a chain saw. When I do make them I make many times more than I need at the moment. The reason plastic wedges pop out is because the taper is wrong. Wood does not have a tendency to pop out for a few reasons. The taper can be made very gradual and wood has just the right amount of friction so popping out is less. A 20'' tree that is leaning should allow at least 5 wedges to be used. Once the back cut starts to open a little the next set of wedges can be used with out needing to stack wedges which does not work well. Wedges can be cut with a starting point at 1/2'' or 3/4'' or what ever is needed thus elliminating any need for stacking. Possible the most important issue is wood is tough not nearly as flimsy as plastic. You can drive on a wood wedge until you think it can not take any more but it does. When using plastic often they start to mushroom after just a few punches. Thanks

 

[VW Splitter]

I like the idea of making my own wooden wedges. I always have the truck close by so caring a large variety pack is not a problem. You could have several in your arsenal, 2" thick with a 1" thick starting point. Would green wood hold together better, or is something cured out better? Would oak make a good wedge, we have plenty of it around.