New wood stove lack of burn,water in iron walls?

[vincem77]

From the pictures it looks like you have far too many coals for the amount of wood. Overlap the split pieces some so air can flow underneath. This will cause the wood to fall apart as it burns. Laying them flat can cause a buildup of coals and prevent them from breaking apart as they burn.

How tight does your door close? If the gasket on the door does not make a complete seal it can cause the glass the smoke up. Also on my insert if the gasket isn't tight the airflow has trouble reaching the back of the firebox.

 

[Locust Cutter]

My T-6 has been worth every penny. The installation was horrible, (flu pipe looks like a drunken-hillbilly installed it while high on drugs) but it does have wonderful draft, burns cleanly and only eats about 1.5-2 cords/month heating my drafty 130yr old, 2700SQft 2 story farmhouse, when it's freezing or less. Warmer than 32F, and my burn rates are effectively cut in half,...

I'd say check your air inlet on the stove and then fix your flu. If you pay the full amount now, you'll avoid paying a smaller amount now plus the original amount later, plus the amount of money that you'll save in the meantime in firewood, it will definitely make it worth your while. Not to mention that it'll completely resolve you current Guillema. I realize that this may not be the answer that you'd like, but it may be the answer that you need.
-Bryan

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

The first installer of a new woodstove this fall broke inside ceramic collar and 4-chimney blocks, he then swore and cussed at my parents for trying to blame him. We went with the current installer who agreed to fix the busted chimney and collar and he also suggested this stove. But, now they are avoiding us by not calling us back, we know their names.

The inlet for room air supply has a cut out in ash drawer and yes that is open

No matter how we positioned the wood it did not burn in the rear of the stove until the front burned off first, thus 50% BTU and 50%heat output. Did not check the door gasket I guess I should have since my installer NEVER did on my stove at my house.
Can you believe our fireplace has a gap that allows 16+ sheets of paper to pass between gasket and door frame when only 1 is standard per manufacturer. I am still fighting him on this for more than a year. He says parts are on order.

 

[sunfish]

No matter how we positioned the wood it did not burn in the rear of the stove until the front burned off first, thus 50% BTU and 50%heat output.

My Jotul 118 burns wood end to end like yours. It burns from front to back, like a cigar. If it all burned at once, it would not have a long burn time. It's not supposed to burn the wood in back before it burns the wood in front. I've had to split smaller for this stove, 3-4" splits are the largest. 5.5" like your using for overnight will not work for me. Smaller slits may work better for your stove?

Long slow burn times over long periods is what these stoves are designed to do, but it does sound like you have a draft problem. A flue straight up through the ceiling/roof works best.

 

[alleyyooper]

"Next time ask the gals name. Then ask to speak to her supervisor because you obviously are getting nowhere speaking with her or waiting for calls that do not come in.

Ask and write down everyones name and extension# you speak with, and get the name and phone numbers of those that are supposed to call you in the future... be direct, but polite, and be tenacious about pressing the matter.

As soon as they figure out you are compiling day,date, time, whom, and statements as opposed to actions, they will start wondering about lawyers getting involved in the future, and put a bootheel into the installers ass for making them look like idiots.

Give the second installer some leeway though. He may not be getting paid his regular rate to deal with such matters, or even tired of cleaning up others messes. Ya never know, and he's likely a decent Joe."

I agree 100% with the above. Tine to stop fooling around and press the issue and if you can not get satifaction. ask them to send out one of their famous factory engineers to fix the problem. There is always the lawyer and getting your mmoney returned and the worthless non working stove gone.

Our Ashley burns the wood even across the the grates from bottom up. When we close it down for the long night burn it holds for 12 to 14 hours.
We also have it running 6" pipe into the 7"7" masonary chimely.

Al

 

[sunfish]

The company then said we need to cure the iron and bricks of the moisture that is inside of them. (I should of asked them if that is why cars rust but did not think of it in time). To do this we need to before each season constantly burn at HI wide open for 24 hours or more a full load of wood at all times.

Sounds like you were talking to a 'disgruntled postal employee'...

 

[cedarman]

I think you are wrong on a couple of points. I don't think we are seeing air restriction and the new stoves do not require a lot of air. At least you not suggesting an outdoor air supply....or a Magic Heat.

I'm pretty sure what we are seeing here is almost a textbook example of a chimney that can not stay warm due to the outside temperature....the fact that it is outside of the heated envelope......and the fact that it is an uninsulated chimney.

No doubt the OP is getting bad advice from his installer but neither the installer nor the manufacturer are the cause of the inadequate chimney.


This chimney has a lot of problems and is almost a textbook example of a chimney not suitable for an epa wood stove.

Man I wish I knew as much as you!!! I bet its not easy being as knowledgeable as you is it.

On the contrar to what this man said, my magicheat works great!!!!!!!! Not that thats the answer to your problem.

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

I think you are wrong on a couple of points. I don't think we are seeing air restriction and the new stoves do not require a lot of air. At least you not suggesting an outdoor air supply....or a Magic Heat.

I'm pretty sure what we are seeing here is almost a textbook example of a chimney that can not stay warm due to the outside temperature....the fact that it is outside of the heated envelope......and the fact that it is an uninsulated chimney.

No doubt the OP is getting bad advice from his installer but neither the installer nor the manufacturer are the cause of the inadequate chimney.

This chimney has a lot of problems and is almost a textbook example of a chimney not suitable for an epa wood stove.

The chimney may be the problem, but then neither installer noticed it on pre inspection from the get go.

It was cracked (3 ft crack up blocks & house joint cracked) by first installer and second guy had to fix it and seal it. So he charges us to fix the chimney that may now be wrong for the stove, and then turns right around and has to sell us a new chimney that will work, REAL SMART and we thought he was a good guy in agreeing to fix the chimney! If this is the case my parents are paying 3x the cost of the install:bang::bang: Talk about being taken for a ride!

It may not be quite the same fireplace but we have at our house 2-45 degree elbows and 15' of double wall pipe going vertically through an uninsulated attic an uninsulated chase and out the top of chase and use the same wood as cabin and we have no problems with our stove but we have adequate air with an additional cold air supply for startups.

When we first noticed the poor performance on stove at cabin it was 45 degrees outside. It was a bit warm outside but cabin was still cold from being shut down.

The installer people told us that in mild weather the stove has problems drawing air in the chimney so I guess we were just had to freeze in 40 degree weather, STUPID.

When I touch the outer surface of the cinder blocks on chimney as far as I can reach up 8' they are warm to my fingers compared to outside temps so heat is getting up into the chimney.

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

My Jotul 118 burns wood end to end like yours. It burns from front to back, like a cigar. If it all burned at once, it would not have a long burn time. It's not supposed to burn the wood in back before it burns the wood in front. I've had to split smaller for this stove, 3-4" splits are the largest. 5.5" like your using for overnight will not work for me. Smaller slits may work better for your stove?

Long slow burn times over long periods is what these stoves are designed to do, but it does sound like you have a draft problem. A flue straight up through the ceiling/roof works best.

But does your stove leave 4-5 inch cinders of unburned wood under the embers? Or does the embers keep piling up until you can not put wood into the stove except small 1-2 diameter pieces. Do you have to rake the coals from under the embers and have sparks fly out the door?

 

[sunfish]

But does your stove leave 4-5 inch cinders of unburned wood under the embers? Or does the embers keep piling up until you can not put wood into the stove except small 1-2 diameter pieces. Do you have to rake the coals from under the embers and have sparks fly out the door?

My stove burns the embers down pretty small, but does not leave large unburnt cinders. When it's real cold and we're feeding it heavily, it will build up a lot of embers that sometimes need to be removed, but can usually rake them forward and open the air to burn them down. We always rake the embers to the front before adding more wood, to burn from the front, like a cigar. Sparks do fly sometimes...

I am not familiar with your stove, so it's hard to trouble shoot from this end.

 

[Highbeam]

"3 Damper is located in front so air supply comes in just under the door I guess. I question where does the cold air supply come in? The opening is in the back under the ash tray so would it feed the rear of the fire box. Manufacturer did NOT answer this when asked. Opening a window would not help if a supply intake vent is not available to fireplace.

4. Chimney requirement is 15', we have 16'9" and the size is increased from the 6" to an insert within the cinder blocks measuring 7"x7"."

This stove is made to be hooked up to an outside air supply tube. Aobve, you seem to not be able to find this inlet but then in another post you mention that it is clear. Verify it is clear. The single air inlet supplies both primary and secondary air systems on most stoves. From the inlet there are channels in the stove to route the air near the fire for a preheat and then dump the air at optimal places for clean combustion. Your stove's single control level controls both primary and secondary air rates, this is unique to the T5 firebox. Air comes in at the top of the glass, at the bottom of the glass, and through the holes in the SS baffle. Thats it.

4. Your chimney is too short. 16.75-6 for the bends is only a 10.75 foot chimney. You need to extend it 4.25' to meet minimum spec. Also, it is a cold evil outside chimney. The very fact that it feels warm on the outside is evidence to the problem, the masonry wicks heat from the flue gasses out to the outside air robbing draft from your chimney.

Extending a chimney isn't that hard, you just add length to the top and reuse the bottom.

 

[sunfish]

After more thought, it sounds like you are not raking the coals (cinders/embers) forward each time you load the stove, is this right? Just throwing more wood on top of the pile may not work in your stove. This could be the problem with the unburnt wood.

I've only had one stove that didn't require coals raked forward, a Vermont Casting Acclaim, great stove, but it liked to have drove my crazy (another story), probably how you feel about right now. The 3 stoves I'm running now, coals have to be raked to the front, each time wood it added, for best results.

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

After more thought, it sounds like you are not raking the coals (cinders/embers) forward each time you load the stove, is this right? Just throwing more wood on top of the pile may not work in your stove. This could be the problem with the unburnt wood.

I've only had one stove that didn't require coals raked forward, a Vermont Casting Acclaim, great stove, but it liked to have drove my crazy (another story), probably how you feel about right now. The 3 stoves I'm running now, coals have to be raked to the front, each time wood it added, for best results.

We were told to flip the colas from bottom to top and also back to front being careful to not cover the front vents just under the door frame where the air enters the firebox. When the damper is open only the first few inches of embers glow red of the 18" length firebox, the back of firebox stays Black

 

[sunfish]

We were told to flip the colas from bottom to top and also back to front being careful to not cover the front vents just under the door frame where the air enters the firebox. When the damper is open only the first few inches of embers glow red of the 18" length firebox, the back of firebox stays Black

Well, either not enough air going into the stove, or not enough draw in the flue to pull air into the stove.

How does it burn with the door open? Does smoke come out when you first open the door?

Looking like a flue problem, like said before. That 7" sq flue ain't drawing well.

Cheapest fix; Have the 7" square flue replaced with 6" round, double wall if possible.

 

[greengiant]

I have an EPA, Phase II approved, flush, wood insert. I do not have experience with any other kind of stove. You may need to use smaller splits and methodically place wood in the stove like I do.

If I just chuck wood in the stove in a pile, all pieces facing the same direction, it doesn't burn well. I methodically place something small in a left to right direction near the back 1/3, and then place 3-4 pieces front to back on top of that, with the front ends sitting on the frame of the stove behind the door. I then leave the door cracked, the baffle open and air control fully open until it gets going good (anywhere from 30 seconds to 5 minutes depending on the temp of the coal base). I then close the door, close the baffle and turn on the fan. I very rarely use the air control at all, and if I do, I can't have the blower on very high or the unit cools off, and my end result are unburnd chuncks of wood like you mention, and build up on the glass.

Also, as was just mentioned by an earlier post, when its really cold out, and I'm trying to heat my ranch house with poorly insulated walls and windows, the coal base builds up to the point where I can't fit much in the stove. Even though the coals are hot, I can't get much heat off the stove, so I remove them and start over again. On the coldest days, I end up taking out ashes 2x a day while they are still hot. I think the buildup of ashes prevents the heat from the coals from getting into the firebrick, thus not letting the blower pump out heat.

Good luck

 

[pook]

coal & or coals burn best when the air is coming from below as on a grate= pile the coals on the hole to the ashpan & let air in thru the ashpan to burn/ashify the coals.
load the stove to the max after u move the coals to the front [good luck with the mess] & refire the stove with primary , 2ndary, & ashpan open until the system gets hot & chimni is heated. Then close the ashpan & then the primary. AT this point the secondaries should be firing but monitor their burn to assure they dont die. If they die ,open the primary & or ashpan to reestablish the burn.............eventually, u'll figure the thing out.........good lux

 

[Wife'nHubby]

coal & or coals burn best when the air is coming from below as on a grate= pile the coals on the hole to the ashpan & let air in thru the ashpan to burn/ashify the coals.
load the stove to the max after u move the coals to the front [good luck with the mess] & refire the stove with primary , 2ndary, & ashpan open until the system gets hot & chimni is heated. Then close the ashpan & then the primary. AT this point the secondaries should be firing but monitor their burn to assure they dont die. If they die ,open the primary & or ashpan to reestablish the burn.............eventually, u'll figure the thing out.........good lux

Oh Un-Wise One: Bad advice. My Oslo instruction manual specifically states burning with ash pan door open will void the warranty. Many, many, many other manufacturers state the same.

To the OP: Check your manufacturers suggested burning practices regarding the ash pan door.

Shari

 

[CTYank]

Hopefully the "fire in your eyes" is now under control. (Rant mode not good for reception.)

You need to find out, for certain, what the flow paths are, for all: primary, secondary, tertiary (a/r) air.
Until then, a reasonable suspicion:
primary, throttleable, somewhere above window glass, flowing downward, then curving toward the rear (this partly from your description of burning);
secondary, always fully open, through preheaters to discharge above firebox.

Find out how to operate air control for a normal burn cycle, including maybe cracking the door initially.

With such a stove, I've found that, with the door closed, there is essentially NO air flow up through the grate. If I stuff the firebox before lighting, or toss in a batch of wood before the previous is down to coals, chances are very high that I'll find unburnt wood at the bottom rear.

I learned long back to not stuff it. And to keep a good layer of coals below- since they are key to the gasification that makes this sort of stove work.

 

[Locust Cutter]

Oh Un-Wise One: Bad advice. My Oslo instruction manual specifically states burning with ash pan door open will void the warranty. Many, many, many other manufacturers state the same.

To the OP: Check your manufacturers suggested burning practices regarding the ash pan door.

Shari

My T-6 manual says the same thing. I still occasionally use it to help start a fire, but thats a bout it. I saw on an earlier post, as reference to a bit of smoke coming out when you open the stove door,... Is that indicative of a draft problem?

 

[dingeryote]

Oh Un-Wise One: Bad advice. My Oslo instruction manual specifically states burning with ash pan door open will void the warranty. Many, many, many other manufacturers state the same.

To the OP: Check your manufacturers suggested burning practices regarding the ash pan door.

Shari

YEP!!!

It will easily over fire the stove if left burning with the door open.
Good for getting a balky fire started or checking draft though.

Primary air intake volume is of specific size for a reason.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote