New wood stove lack of burn,water in iron walls?

[alleyyooper]

Before I spent a dime on a new chimney I would make every effort to get rid of that new stove either the company take it back or sell it on CL's. The chimney worked fine and drew fine with the orginal stove so why would it be bad for the new one.

Just get a couple (for a double barrel stove.) 55 gallon barrels and a barrel stove kit and never look back.

I really believe it is a defective stove your dealing with and the company should make ever effort to fix the problem or take the stove back and not keep giving you the run around.

If it is such a great stove why the run around any way? Does the company not believe in customwer service?

Sounds like some thing to keep throwing dollars at till a point in time you just throw in the towel and get rid of the thing after many dollars latter.

Al

 

[chowdozer]

Before I spent a dime on a new chimney I would make every effort to get rid of that new stove either the company take it back or sell it on CL's. The chimney worked fine and drew fine with the orginal stove so why would it be bad for the new one.

Just get a couple (for a double barrel stove.) 55 gallon barrels and a barrel stove kit and never look back.

I really believe it is a defective stove your dealing with and the company should make ever effort to fix the problem or take the stove back and not keep giving you the run around.

If it is such a great stove why the run around any way? Does the company not believe in customwer service?

Sounds like some thing to keep throwing dollars at till a point in time you just throw in the towel and get rid of the thing after many dollars latter.

Al

It's all about air flow. Keep the air flow up with something like an old stove or a barrel that is not air tight, the stack stays warm and draws good draft and the fire zips right along. You burn lots of wood with poor efficiency. Put a new stove in that's air tight where you can keep good control over the air and get good efficiency, the exhaust cools off so much that the exhaust leaving the stack does not draw sufficient air in through the intake to support combustion and the fire dies out. I really doubt it's the stove. All stoves will behave as his does with poor draft.

 

[pook]

It's all about air flow. Keep the air flow up with something like an old stove or a barrel that is not air tight, the stack stays warm and draws good draft and the fire zips right along. You burn lots of wood with poor efficiency. Put a new stove in that's air tight where you can keep good control over the air and get good efficiency, the exhaust cools off so much that the exhaust leaving the stack does not draw sufficient air in through the intake to support combustion and the fire dies out. I really doubt it's the stove. All stoves will behave as his does with poor draft.

how are 2ndary air burner tubes which have an uncontrollable air intake airtight?, for an EPA stove?

 

[hunterbuild]

Again I don't think it is the stove. One cheap and quick way to find out. If the chimney is safe, lined and cleaned. Take 2" dense foam and using a proper adhesive cover your block on the outside. Leave it down from the top a bit or cover the top edge with some tin. Have the chimney warm and do it. This will only that an hour or two,and you will know if it works or not in minutes. If this works there are a number of cement products you can paint or trowel on to cover the foam.
The best idea I have would cost more but give you more room. Do a bump out for the stove, run a new SS chimney up the outside wall above the bump out and in case that to the roof. That way you avoid that old roof with does look like a nightmare. plus you gain some living space.

 

[chowdozer]

how are 2ndary air burner tubes which have an uncontrollable air intake airtight?, for an EPA stove?

Are secondary air tubes a predetermined size? Calculated by the manufacturer? Therefore they are controlled.

 

[chowdozer]

Again I don't think it is the stove. One cheap and quick way to find out. If the chimney is safe, lined and cleaned. Take 2" dense foam and using a proper adhesive cover your block on the outside. Leave it down from the top a bit or cover the top edge with some tin. Have the chimney warm and do it. This will only that an hour or two,and you will know if it works or not in minutes. If this works there are a number of cement products you can paint or trowel on to cover the foam.
The best idea I have would cost more but give you more room. Do a bump out for the stove, run a new SS chimney up the outside wall above the bump out and in case that to the roof. That way you avoid that old roof with does look like a nightmare. plus you gain some living space.

I think I would take the stove outside and put a 12' stack on it and fire it off. My suspicion is it will work fine with a straight stack. There is a lot of variability allowed in the construction of a wood stove, that's why there are so many designs and all work fine.

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

Again I don't think it is the stove. One cheap and quick way to find out. If the chimney is safe, lined and cleaned. Take 2" dense foam and using a proper adhesive cover your block on the outside. Leave it down from the top a bit or cover the top edge with some tin. Have the chimney warm and do it. This will only that an hour or two,and you will know if it works or not in minutes. If this works there are a number of cement products you can paint or trowel on to cover the foam.
The best idea I have would cost more but give you more room. Do a bump out for the stove, run a new SS chimney up the outside wall above the bump out and in case that to the roof. That way you avoid that old roof with does look like a nightmare. plus you gain some living space.

I am not quite sure how insulating the chimney would help the lack of height problem caused by elbow restrictions?

The bump out sounds interesting but too expensive and may look more like a sore thumb than the current chimney does. Not much room on that wall between the 2 windows and door entrance. The manual also has it sitting in a alcove 4 ft deep max. That is like an addition to cabin.:biggrinbounce2:

We may be forced to go through the stupid double ceiling and then the roof.
The original owners weren't the brightest people on Earth and every project we do has many surprises.

Fortunately for us there is a good construction guy living across the street from cabin who helps us out alot and we are good friends with. He is not working now so our need for help is his to his benefit also.

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

It's all about air flow. Keep the air flow up with something like an old stove or a barrel that is not air tight, the stack stays warm and draws good draft and the fire zips right along. You burn lots of wood with poor efficiency. Put a new stove in that's air tight where you can keep good control over the air and get good efficiency, the exhaust cools off so much that the exhaust leaving the stack does not draw sufficient air in through the intake to support combustion and the fire dies out. I really doubt it's the stove. All stoves will behave as his does with poor draft.

Our old stove somewhat similar to a Vogelzang Heartwood Wood-Burning Heater had many holes in the stove, in fact you could check the fire to see if it was burning without opening the door, ( no window) but ours was more than 25 years old. Bricks were all cracked so walls were bowed, grate also had large gaps in it.

During reloads we had to open ash drawer to prevent smoke from pouring out the door so I guess we had the problem before but did not realize it. It did burn large wood though (8" x 22" unsplit wood), but very quickly and HOT IN THE ROOM. A full load would not even make it through the night. It was so smoky even some from the holes was the reason I pushed for a new air tight stove.

Now the short chimney that was always there but manageble with the very leaky stove is even more pronounced and unmanageable with the air tight stove.

Like I said before we start one project in this cabin and it turns out to be a nightmare of more projects and expense. This is a Holmes on Homes cabin

 

[Locust Cutter]

Our old stove somewhat similar to a Vogelzang Heartwood Wood-Burning Heater had many holes in the stove, in fact you could check the fire to see if it was burning without opening the door, ( no window) but ours was more than 25 years old. Bricks were all cracked so walls were bowed, grate also had large gaps in it.

During reloads we had to open ash drawer to prevent smoke from pouring out the door so I guess we had the problem before but did not realize it. It did burn large wood though (8" x 22" unsplit wood), but very quickly and HOT IN THE ROOM. A full load would not even make it through the night. It was so smoky even some from the holes was the reason I pushed for a new air tight stove.

Now the short chimney that was always there but manageble with the very leaky stove is even more pronounced and unmanageable with the air tight stove.

Like I said before we start one project in this cabin and it turns out to be a nightmare of more projects and expense. This is a Holmes on Homes cabin

The old Vogelzang that I have would be suitable for a barn, garage or a wall tent heater, provided there was adequate ventilation. Like the one you describe, it leaks, smokes, pops, groans and stretches at will. It does help opening the draft door(sliding) when loading fresh logs though.

 

[Dalmatian90]

All the talk of big, cool chimney and draft problem has me wanting to ask the obvious -- is the chimney clean?

Sounded like it needed some repairs by an installer, so I'm guessing it is. But I haven't seen anyone else ask or the original poster state it is...

 

[anymanusa]

Lots of questions and suggestions GREAT! I will try to answer them.
1. Our wood is DRY we season the wood in stacks out in the woods for at least a year either split or unsplit and each pile has a piece of tin covering the top not the sides. .

wood does not begin to season until split.

 

[bullittman281]

Hello,

My BIL has an Aldera T5. The stove works fabulous. EPA stoves burn front to back and then the coals. I burn pine and most of the heat seems to be the coals, not the flaming wood. YOUR problem is weak draft. I run a lopi answer and I've been fighting for years because of a compromised install. I'm running a 6" SS liner through a 6" by 12" tile liner. The SS liner touches the tile an is forever cold. My stove exhibits same problems yours does. I've insulated my liner as best as possible and I finally got the stove to function but its still not great. My BIL stove is a dream to run in comparison.

He is using a strait up double wall class A or whatever they call the modern insulated high temp stove pipe. His stove lights off easy and burns great. Again we burn pine but the trick to making it run is as soon as the fire is lit and growing make sure the door is all the way closed and sealed. once the wood is burning good and the stove is full of lots of BIG fire move the air control to the middle. He has a thermometer in the left front corner of the stove top where its easy to see from the top through the grates. Watch this thermometer, once it gets to 400* move the air control all the way to the right, closing it all the way down. The secondary burn will be a blob of flames just hanging out in the middle of the fire box, its very mellow and very stable. It just kind of floats there. From this point on don't touch the stove until all the wood is burned down and is most of the coals. He doesn't bother raking the coals around too much during reloads either. The thermometer will creep up to or just over 600* by the time the wood burns all the way up. He wont refill until the stove top is less that 300*, although this will vary depending on how much heat you really need. If he doesn't refill it, it will eventually consume almost all of the coals leaving just ash. The glass always stays clean.

This is how he runs it and gets it up to operating temp the fastest. This stove wont build much heat until the air control get turned down some and the secondaries start doing something. Also this stove never smokes, ever, when he runs it like this. His neighbors even ask why he never uses it because it is so clean. His stove also seems to work fine with or even prefer larger splits. Dry wood is very important but damp wood doesn't cause the problems that you describe.

If I understand your install you run the short section of strait pipe up to the elbow and then run it horizontally into an existing 7"X7" tile liner? there is not another 90 and liner up through the existing 7"X7" liner?? If this is correct then "DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER". That is your problem. You need to run your flue strait up and it needs to be the insulated stuff that your running inside. This is what its going to take. Period. I've been fighting the same problem for many years, it will never be right unless you run the insulated stuff for the whole run. Trust me I know.

Get the stove a proper draft and you will absolutely love your EPA stove. They never smoke, burn less wood, and from what I've seen, are easier to run.

Bullittman

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

All the talk of big, cool chimney and draft problem has me wanting to ask the obvious -- is the chimney clean?

Sounded like it needed some repairs by an installer, so I'm guessing it is. But I haven't seen anyone else ask or the original poster state it is...

We clean chimney every year and chimney was cleaned just prior to the installation.

 

[pook]

Are secondary air tubes a predetermined size? Calculated by the manufacturer? Therefore they are controlled.

2ndary air tubes are always open & connected to combustion air intake that has no control on most stoves. Even if its a single air intake which feeds both primary & 2ndary, the air cant be completely closed= Its a EPA thing against smoldering wood by shutting off the air

 

[Wife'nHubby]

how are 2ndary air burner tubes which have an uncontrollable air intake airtight?, for an EPA stove?

Sounds like you answered you own question here:

2ndary air tubes are always open & connected to combustion air intake that has no control on most stoves. Even if its a single air intake which feeds both primary & 2ndary, the air cant be completely closed= Its a EPA thing against smoldering wood by shutting off the air

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

 

[pook]

Sounds like you answered you own question here:



opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

u can lead a horse to water but cant make her drink though an enema will still work.

 

[chowdozer]

2ndary air tubes are always open & connected to combustion air intake that has no control on most stoves. Even if its a single air intake which feeds both primary & 2ndary, the air cant be completely closed= Its a EPA thing against smoldering wood by shutting off the air

Exactly and secondary air tubes are fixed and therefore controlled.

You're getting it.

Are you a thirsty horse that needs an enema? I can call a pumper truck for you.

 

[pook]

Exactly and secondary air tubes are fixed and therefore controlled.

You're getting it.

Are you a thirsty horse that needs an enema? I can call a pumper truck for you.

so by this nonsense the primary air is uncontrolled?

 

[chowdozer]

so by this nonsense the primary air is uncontrolled?

Can you burn the stove down with the adjustable primary air and enough fuel? You can't with secondary air because the inlet area is fixed by design. fixed = controlled

 

[Locust Cutter]

Can you burn the stove down with the adjustable primary air and enough fuel? You can't with secondary air because the inlet area is fixed by design. fixed = controlled

opcorn: