New wood stove lack of burn,water in iron walls?

[pook]

Oh Un-Wise One: Bad advice. My Oslo instruction manual specifically states burning with ash pan door open will void the warranty. Many, many, many other manufacturers state the same.

To the OP: Check your manufacturers suggested burning practices regarding the ash pan door.

Shari

read some prior posts above if only to realize u can teach a parrot to recite the manual but it still dont know whats going on, venius.

 

[Wife'nHubby]

read some prior posts above if only to realize u can teach a parrot to recite the manual but it still dont know whats going on, venius.

Based upon your comment here http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=2600477&highlight=#post2600477 that you have never burned in an EPA stove, what experience do you bring to this OP's issue with their EPA stove?

Shari

 

[chowdozer]

You have a draft problem. Do yourself a favor and replace that 90 elbow with a 45 out of the stove and a 45 on the wall. Anytime you put a horizontal in you are killing your draft and when the temp gets down the fire will snuff itself out. That's what's happening to you and you're not going to get a good burn until you straighten out the stove pipe.

My experience is if you go three feet vertical, don't go more than 18" or so on the horizontal and give the horizontal some slope if you possibly can. My preference would be to go straight out the roof. Makes cleaning so much easier. I haven't cleaned my stovepipe in 4 years.

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

"3 Damper is located in front so air supply comes in just under the door I guess. I question where does the cold air supply come in? The opening is in the back under the ash tray so would it feed the rear of the fire box. Manufacturer did NOT answer this when asked. Opening a window would not help if a supply intake vent is not available to fireplace.

4. Chimney requirement is 15', we have 16'9" and the size is increased from the 6" to an insert within the cinder blocks measuring 7"x7"."

This stove is made to be hooked up to an outside air supply tube. Aobve, you seem to not be able to find this inlet but then in another post you mention that it is clear. Verify it is clear. The single air inlet supplies both primary and secondary air systems on most stoves. From the inlet there are channels in the stove to route the air near the fire for a preheat and then dump the air at optimal places for clean combustion. Your stove's single control level controls both primary and secondary air rates, this is unique to the T5 firebox. Air comes in at the top of the glass, at the bottom of the glass, and through the holes in the SS baffle. Thats it.

4. Your chimney is too short. 16.75-6 for the bends is only a 10.75 foot chimney. You need to extend it 4.25' to meet minimum spec. Also, it is a cold evil outside chimney. The very fact that it feels warm on the outside is evidence to the problem, the masonry wicks heat from the flue gasses out to the outside air robbing draft from your chimney.

Extending a chimney isn't that hard, you just add length to the top and reuse the bottom.

So many questions and answers it is great, although it seems we are narrowing it down to draft?
As to the secondary air issue I found the air inlet per the manual, but unsure of where the air flows into the stove from that point on. Thanks for the explanation. So maybe having the outside air supply hooked up would supply more air to firebox at least?

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

Well, either not enough air going into the stove, or not enough draw in the flue to pull air into the stove.

How does it burn with the door open? Does smoke come out when you first open the door?

Looking like a flue problem, like said before. That 7" sq flue ain't drawing well.

Cheapest fix; Have the 7" square flue replaced with 6" round, double wall if possible.

Not sure how a double wall pipe will fit inside the 7x7 insert. On initial opening of door a little smoke comes out but it clears and goes up the chimney. The wood and embers burn better with door open just a crack but still primarily in front of firebox..

If we solve the draft problem since the chimney opening is at front of firebox how would that help burns at rear of firebox. Un fortunately we would have to wait until Spring to do any work since it is Winter and we only have 1-2 more trips before winter shutdown. No computer hookups at cabin either for updates.

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

Oh Un-Wise One: Bad advice. My Oslo instruction manual specifically states burning with ash pan door open will void the warranty. Many, many, many other manufacturers state the same.

To the OP: Check your manufacturers suggested burning practices regarding the ash pan door.

Shari

Installer stated we could open ash door for a few moments, however manual states do not.

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

You have a draft problem. Do yourself a favor and replace that 90 elbow with a 45 out of the stove and a 45 on the wall. Anytime you put a horizontal in you are killing your draft and when the temp gets down the fire will snuff itself out. That's what's happening to you and you're not going to get a good burn until you straighten out the stove pipe.

My experience is if you go three feet vertical, don't go more than 18" or so on the horizontal and give the horizontal some slope if you possibly can. My preference would be to go straight out the roof. Makes cleaning so much easier. I haven't cleaned my stovepipe in 4 years.

A 45 would send it into the ceiling area and then we might as well use a vertical pipe out the roof. The problem we face with a vertical install of a chimney is that the addition used to be a carport years ago in the 60's in front of the mobile home. The residents converted the carport into an addition by putting a roof over the steel roof and enclosing the carport. They weren't the brightest people in the county. It is not as bad looking as it sounds, just a construction nightmare.

In photo The green area on chimney is approx location of where the horizontal pipe connects to chimney.

The blue line is indicating the hanging ceiling of family room made of fiberglass panels.
The red line obstructed by trees and chimney indicates a steel roof between the actual roof and ceiling panels, there is also 20+ inches of insulation below the steel roof.
Not to mention any other hidden surprises we may find in this crazy addition that was done

So that is one reason we prefer to use the original chimney.

 

[Locust Cutter]

A 45 would send it into the ceiling area and then we might as well use a vertical pipe out the roof. The problem we face with a vertical install of a chimney is that the addition used to be a carport years ago in the 60's in front of the mobile home. The residents converted the carport into an addition by putting a roof over the steel roof and enclosing the carport. They weren't the brightest people in the county. It is not as bad looking as it sounds, just a construction nightmare.

In photo The green area on chimney is approx location of where the horizontal pipe connects to chimney.

The blue line is indicating the hanging ceiling of family room made of fiberglass panels.
The red line obstructed by trees and chimney indicates a steel roof between the actual roof and ceiling panels, there is also 20+ inches of insulation below the steel roof.
Not to mention any other hidden surprises we may find in this crazy addition that was done

So that is one reason we prefer to use the original chimney.

I understand your consternation. I have a 130yr old farm house thats only been added onto about 2-5 times... My flue was a nightmare and a half, with two 45 degree elbows and a 'few' slants along the 30 some-odd foot length of it. Works well though. Regardless of the wood type that's thrown in (as long as it's dry) it all becomes fine ashes.

 

[pook]

Based upon your comment here http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?p=2600477&highlight=#post2600477 that you have never burned in an EPA stove, what experience do you bring to this OP's issue with their EPA stove?

Shari

reread the post venius. it sez i never put a MH on an EPA stove! u should learn to read to learn & not just to confirm your beliefs so to satisfy your desires for?????:deadhorse:
again u attack me instead of scientifically addressing the issue
my apologies to parrots, they dont all bite.

 

[alleyyooper]

Did you build the masanary chimney?

Ours has a liner in it and a layer of sand between the liner and the blocks so it is well insunlated better that the steel double walled so called insulated things sold at tsc.

Al

 

[Highbeam]

I don't believe an outside air supply would fix your problem if opening an outside window makes no difference in the stove's behavior.

I notice an obsession with the entire fuel load burning at once? It isn't supposed to all burn at once, the last part of the fuel load to burn is always the back bottom. Get over that.

That stacked block chimney will be cheap and easy to extend when you get around to it. I think, especially after seeing it, that your chimney is your problem. Don't waste time with anything else. The chimney is super cold after sitting without a fire for weeks in the snow, it is oversized slightly, it has lots of exposed surface area, and it is too short. There is a good chance that the old cast iron clean out door is leaking air too which will ruin draft.

The chimney is the engine that drives the stove and your engine needs work.

 

[hunterbuild]

I have had 3 PE stove over the last 25 years. Draft is critical. I had never had a problem until the last one in new house needed a couple of 45s to get to pipe in ceiling. stove did just as yours is doing. I did need to add to chimney as it was a little short. try to keep the angle as little as possible. Mine is cooking good now. I do have to clean the spark screen often, or it plugs up. I clean the chimney once a year. I think if you could put in SS pipe straight up and out your problems will be solved. Don't give up. that stove will do an unbelievable job when you get it going right.

 

[Locust Cutter]

I have had 3 PE stove over the last 25 years. Draft is critical. I had never had a problem until the last one in new house needed a couple of 45s to get to pipe in ceiling. stove did just as yours is doing. I did need to add to chimney as it was a little short. try to keep the angle as little as possible. Mine is cooking good now. I do have to clean the spark screen often, or it plugs up. I clean the chimney once a year. I think if you could put in SS pipe straight up and out your problems will be solved. Don't give up. that stove will do an unbelievable job when you get it going right.

Spark Screen? I guess I need to pay more attention to the inner workings of my stove box. What model do you currently have?

 

[sunfish]

Spark Screen? I guess I need to pay more attention to the inner workings of my stove box. What model do you currently have?

Probably talking about the chimney/flue cap.

 

[Locust Cutter]

Probably talking about the chimney/flue cap.

That would make more sense,...

 

[beerman6]

I have had 3 PE stove over the last 25 years. Draft is critical. I had never had a problem until the last one in new house needed a couple of 45s to get to pipe in ceiling. stove did just as yours is doing. I did need to add to chimney as it was a little short. try to keep the angle as little as possible. Mine is cooking good now. I do have to clean the spark screen often, or it plugs up. I clean the chimney once a year. I think if you could put in SS pipe straight up and out your problems will be solved. Don't give up. that stove will do an unbelievable job when you get it going right.

Dudes been registered for almost 3 years and this is his first post!

 

[hunterbuild]

Yes, I was talking the screen in the chimney cap. The chimney draft controls the air flow in the stove. If you don't have suction the window wash, the secondary burn,etc. won't work. I'm a bit slow to jump in,will try to do better.

 

[hunterbuild]

About your present chimney,you might try furring it out and insulating it with 2" rigid foam. Also make sure it is the proper height. Also the two 45s to lessen that 90 may help. Than chimney will take longer to heat up so give it plenty of burn time to get it going before turning it down. I have a super series model.

 

[chowdozer]

A 45 would send it into the ceiling area and then we might as well use a vertical pipe out the roof. The problem we face with a vertical install of a chimney is that the addition used to be a carport years ago in the 60's in front of the mobile home. The residents converted the carport into an addition by putting a roof over the steel roof and enclosing the carport. They weren't the brightest people in the county. It is not as bad looking as it sounds, just a construction nightmare.

In photo The green area on chimney is approx location of where the horizontal pipe connects to chimney.

The blue line is indicating the hanging ceiling of family room made of fiberglass panels.
The red line obstructed by trees and chimney indicates a steel roof between the actual roof and ceiling panels, there is also 20+ inches of insulation below the steel roof.
Not to mention any other hidden surprises we may find in this crazy addition that was done

So that is one reason we prefer to use the original chimney.

The situation you have with draft is dangerous. When the flue cools down enough and the embers start smoldering, there is a risk of the stove burping smoke back into the house, more so in a windstorm. Get a CO2 and smoke detector.

You can add a little chimney height and that may marginally help. I hope your stack has a clay liner? If not, I would not burn anything in it. You can also run a stainless pipe up the chimney. No need for insulated, just seal off the bottom and dump vermiculite or rock wool in there to fill the gap. Other than that, you're stuck with what you have. Burning firewood will become so aggravating you will look for an excuse not to.

Me, I would poke a hole in the roof, run a 6" stainless straight up and put it right in the top of the stove. No worries ever cleaning the pipe and no draft problems, even in a windstorm.

 

[RCR 3 EVER]

It sounds like the chimney is the problem, will check what we can do when we get to cabin next time we get there in next few weeks. If no snow we may try a temporary extension on top of chimney just to see if we get a difference. Will also check the cleanout door I think it is a very loose fit.
Thanks for all the help will discuss all the input with my parents. Sounds as we have a lot of work if we need to run a new chimney through the roof.