john taliaferro
Addicted to ArboristSite
We are gonna need pictures ,what hp does your hydraulic engine produce ,and how loud is it .
Newbie Questions on Milling with a Chainsaw Mill (homemade)
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The saws I have, run on 4-8 gpm from 1000-2000 psi. I run off of my tractor's rear hydrauilcs quite a bit at my woods. It is 6 gpm @ around 1900 psi. I also have a dedicated portable hydraulic unit that can run from 4 gpm upto 8 gpm dependant on RPM (has a tach on it) and the full 2000 psi. I have hose pairs (2) 25', (1) 40', and some 10-12' pairs, so I could get quite far away if I wanted to, but lots of hose will limit the performance. I will probably use the 25 footer, which is what I use when sawing from the tractor hydraulics. I usually rev the tractor up to 2000 rpm when sawing (diesel), and drop the rpm when running the splitter. I have a PTO pump for it, so both can be connected at same time.
The saws are very quiet, kinda erry-sounding, just chain noise mostly, and no exhaust, and no vibration. They oil with an adjustment that leaks a little hyd.oil on the bar...not enough to worry about. Sawing 8 hours a day, every day may be a different story, but I don't intend to do that. At 6 gpm, chain speed is stated to be around ~2650 fpm, and at 8 gpm it is ~3525 fpm (~59 fps). From my research, a gas saw @ 10,000 rpm with the same tooth count sprocket and chain would be 5000 fpm or 83 fps. My saw use 3/8" .050 chain, but I do have 2 large bars that are 3/8" .063.
As near as I can guess, HP @ 8 gpm-2000 psi is around 6HP, but it is constant at a given psi.
John
I don't have a cell-phone camera or a digital camera (that works anymore), but I do have a cheap webcam, that I may be able to use here in my shop with a little finaggling.
The saws are very quiet, kinda erry-sounding, just chain noise mostly, and no exhaust, and no vibration. They oil with an adjustment that leaks a little hyd.oil on the bar...not enough to worry about. Sawing 8 hours a day, every day may be a different story, but I don't intend to do that. At 6 gpm, chain speed is stated to be around ~2650 fpm, and at 8 gpm it is ~3525 fpm (~59 fps). From my research, a gas saw @ 10,000 rpm with the same tooth count sprocket and chain would be 5000 fpm or 83 fps. My saw use 3/8" .050 chain, but I do have 2 large bars that are 3/8" .063.
As near as I can guess, HP @ 8 gpm-2000 psi is around 6HP, but it is constant at a given psi.
John
I don't have a cell-phone camera or a digital camera (that works anymore), but I do have a cheap webcam, that I may be able to use here in my shop with a little finaggling.
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WadePatton
ArboristSite Guru
OH my.
that should produce great milling power--just gotta wrestle those lines around and get the log and tractor into the same location.
Neighbor of mine makes hydraulic splitters from junkyard scrap. He never buys a line, rarely buys a valve. Usually buys a pump. Makes the axles, tanks, tongue, top, wedge, etc. Always fusses about the cost of oil to fill 'em. He on #16 today.
Anyway, long lines shouldn't reduce efficiency (actual not theoretical) in hydro-unlike a/c or d/c where electrons have to jump around, making things warm and changing their characteristics. But i'm no hydro-surgeon.
Heck the tractor can travel alongside the log if you get into big stuff.
GET a bro with a camera to visit--
I've seen hydro circulars on bucket trucks, are these a variation on that?
that should produce great milling power--just gotta wrestle those lines around and get the log and tractor into the same location.
Neighbor of mine makes hydraulic splitters from junkyard scrap. He never buys a line, rarely buys a valve. Usually buys a pump. Makes the axles, tanks, tongue, top, wedge, etc. Always fusses about the cost of oil to fill 'em. He on #16 today.
Anyway, long lines shouldn't reduce efficiency (actual not theoretical) in hydro-unlike a/c or d/c where electrons have to jump around, making things warm and changing their characteristics. But i'm no hydro-surgeon.
Heck the tractor can travel alongside the log if you get into big stuff.
GET a bro with a camera to visit--
I've seen hydro circulars on bucket trucks, are these a variation on that?
The hydraulic pole circular saws use a similar, if not the same motor, from what I've seen, although I do not have one. I do have an 88" reach hydraulic pole-chainsaw. It's motor looks the same as my hand saws and is made by the same outfit. It only has a 13" bar, but that is plenty for limbs. I also have the 88" pruner, which is a lopper. I like it. It will whack a 2" limb off instantly....bam...gone. For bigger limbs, I can use the pole chainsaw.
I have my project CSM apart right now, as I had to get my MIG rolled over to my lathe (limited work space...no matter what you have it seems like). The ladder I'm using is a 36' magnesium one, and with my rig on it with a saw on it, it clogs up my work space. The ladder is an extension type so it's only 18', but it is still in my way alot. Anywho, I loaded my webcam software onto another computer, and will set it on my drillpress table afterwhile and put the ladder,roller table,saw, oiler....deal back together and post a few pics. They might not be as good as these new giga-pixel cameras, but should give you folks an idea of where I'm at with it.
My roller table simply holds the saw & oiler....not a jack-post type thing. I intend to build a log table that will go beside the clipped-down ladder track. I will raise & level & turn the log via the log table. I have not started on it yet. The whole shebang will be lag-bolted to some RR ties/2x6's,etc.
I will use my pair of 25' hoses, which will be able to run the whole length of the ladder-track if needed. I will put a bracket on the roller-table so the hoses have no effect on the saw movement.
The log table (in my mind) will have the holding dogs, and on one end, will have the ability to level/incline the log as need-be. Then once set, can be raised for the desired cut thickness. The saw is not movable, exept across the length of the ladder.
You'll get the idea later..with a few pics.....I have to go to the PO to get my 3/32 SS cable & thimbles,etc.
I hope to mock-up the winch for the pictures. I have made a few of it's parts yesterday & today.
I have my project CSM apart right now, as I had to get my MIG rolled over to my lathe (limited work space...no matter what you have it seems like). The ladder I'm using is a 36' magnesium one, and with my rig on it with a saw on it, it clogs up my work space. The ladder is an extension type so it's only 18', but it is still in my way alot. Anywho, I loaded my webcam software onto another computer, and will set it on my drillpress table afterwhile and put the ladder,roller table,saw, oiler....deal back together and post a few pics. They might not be as good as these new giga-pixel cameras, but should give you folks an idea of where I'm at with it.
My roller table simply holds the saw & oiler....not a jack-post type thing. I intend to build a log table that will go beside the clipped-down ladder track. I will raise & level & turn the log via the log table. I have not started on it yet. The whole shebang will be lag-bolted to some RR ties/2x6's,etc.
I will use my pair of 25' hoses, which will be able to run the whole length of the ladder-track if needed. I will put a bracket on the roller-table so the hoses have no effect on the saw movement.
The log table (in my mind) will have the holding dogs, and on one end, will have the ability to level/incline the log as need-be. Then once set, can be raised for the desired cut thickness. The saw is not movable, exept across the length of the ladder.
You'll get the idea later..with a few pics.....I have to go to the PO to get my 3/32 SS cable & thimbles,etc.
I hope to mock-up the winch for the pictures. I have made a few of it's parts yesterday & today.
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No pics of the winch setup, but I did get the cable,thimbles & crimps and have the spool about half made. Also have the gearmotor mount almost done.
I do not think machining a disc-brake pad to a round puck is going to work....too hard on the lining. I don't want to have to have that much pressure to make it even move.
I remember working on old Marvel power hack saws, that had down-feed ratchets.....they used about 5 corks in a cork wheel against a surface for slip. that kind of pressure is more like I'll need, along with the slip it will allow?
Oh well, back to the drawing board, so they say?
I do not think machining a disc-brake pad to a round puck is going to work....too hard on the lining. I don't want to have to have that much pressure to make it even move.
I remember working on old Marvel power hack saws, that had down-feed ratchets.....they used about 5 corks in a cork wheel against a surface for slip. that kind of pressure is more like I'll need, along with the slip it will allow?
Oh well, back to the drawing board, so they say?
betterbuilt
I build stuff from milled slabs
Very interesting. Looks good. Are you worried about the bar flexing?
If you half fill the 0.3 G tank with oil there will be 0.15G of oil and 0.15G of air at 40 psi. When half the oil has run out there will be 0.075 G of oil left and 0.225 G of air at 27 psi. Assuming flow rate is proportional to pressure the flow rate will fall by a 33%. When the oil tank is nearly empty you will have a flow rate that will be 1/2 the original.
Compare that with my latest mill which has a tank 24" above the bar. The tank is 8" high (0.32 G) so when the oil level drops to half the pressure head changes from 24 to 20" or a change of 16%. when the tank is nearly empty the flow rate is 1/3rd of the original.
Your tank also only holds half the volume so has to be filled up and re-pressurized.
So your set up about will be about twice as ineffective as my "tall" gravity setup.
Like I said before you are far better off using a gravity based tank and putting your efforts into adding a manual control that will enable the flow to be controlled while the mill is running rather than mucking about with pressure gauges and needing to re-pressurise the tank every time it has to be filled.
My BIL mill aux oil tank only has a pressure head of about 12" but the manual flow control makes oil flow adjustment on the fly a piece of cake.
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Yep - I agree 100%
WadePatton
ArboristSite Guru
I'd mill a few logs and stew over the feed-hickie.
and well, in case you don't do that and are interested in small brake pads, look into the brakes used on mountain bikes (real ones, not k-mart replicas). Replacement pads for such are quite small, some round some square all about 1.5 or 2 inches square. i can probably dig up a couple of used pairs if you want--or try any bike shop for used and new.
and well, in case you don't do that and are interested in small brake pads, look into the brakes used on mountain bikes (real ones, not k-mart replicas). Replacement pads for such are quite small, some round some square all about 1.5 or 2 inches square. i can probably dig up a couple of used pairs if you want--or try any bike shop for used and new.
On the outboard oiler/bar support.
No, I am not worried about bar flex. The bar support/oiler/tip-guard is plenty strong....you can upset the ladder by lifting out there. Of course right now, the ladder is not lag-bolted to RR ties.
On the oiler - pressure vs. any other way.
I like the low profile mounting.....YMMV
I can see if I have oil in the clear hose and can stop cutting if needed.
As to all the math on progressive losses.....I am dragging 2 hydraulic hoses and have no problem dragging an air hose too.
I forgot to say that I have a bucket-truck that has an on-board air compressor, it is a 30 g tank @ 120psi with it's own regulator.
I shouldn't have to run the Onan on the truck for the compressor to 'keep-up' with losses in my .3g oil reservoir.
I did put about a quart of oil in it and pressurized to 40 psi. In pic2 you might see a needle valve?.....I set it for a steady drip and watched it for a while. It will do the job. Like I said, if I need a constant air pressure, it's just one more hose away. I'll be ready for a beer or have to change the cutting depth by the time I run out of oil or air....or run out of beer?
No, I am not worried about bar flex. The bar support/oiler/tip-guard is plenty strong....you can upset the ladder by lifting out there. Of course right now, the ladder is not lag-bolted to RR ties.
On the oiler - pressure vs. any other way.
I like the low profile mounting.....YMMV
I can see if I have oil in the clear hose and can stop cutting if needed.
As to all the math on progressive losses.....I am dragging 2 hydraulic hoses and have no problem dragging an air hose too.
I forgot to say that I have a bucket-truck that has an on-board air compressor, it is a 30 g tank @ 120psi with it's own regulator.
I shouldn't have to run the Onan on the truck for the compressor to 'keep-up' with losses in my .3g oil reservoir.
I did put about a quart of oil in it and pressurized to 40 psi. In pic2 you might see a needle valve?.....I set it for a steady drip and watched it for a while. It will do the job. Like I said, if I need a constant air pressure, it's just one more hose away. I'll be ready for a beer or have to change the cutting depth by the time I run out of oil or air....or run out of beer?
I'm pleased to see there is finally someone around that is prepared to make things more complicated that I usually do so I officially hand the "most complicated setup" award over to you.
I don't know if I'm worthy of that, but I do tend to get complicated/over-kill on things I build.
You may enjoy this prior project?
[video=youtube;62K6PzE-XFg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62K6PzE-XFg[/video]
It's sort like the saying about what a dog can do.....cause he can.
You may enjoy this prior project?
[video=youtube;62K6PzE-XFg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62K6PzE-XFg[/video]
It's sort like the saying about what a dog can do.....cause he can.
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WadePatton
ArboristSite Guru
for can crushing i utilize four rubber-encased, steel-belted, pneumatic rollers arranged in pairs two in front of the others. drive is applied by the rear set and the arrangement is guided by the front set mounted on steering spindles with caster for stability in the case of high-speed fwd direction can crushing. the braking assembly is friction material on steel-hydraulically actuated. entire assembly is powered by a diesel engine through a 5-speed box and 2 speed transfer case. whole contraption weighs ~7700 dry, but holds 34 gallons of diesel on other sundries (saws, firewood, rifles, dogs, me) bring it to 8,000 daily (per the scales where i sell the cans).
operator's compartment is semi-waterproof....allright okay, i'll stop it.
but that _is_ how i crush cans. i collect them in the "hopper" located over the drive axle and then pitch them onto the driveway. only pia is picking them back up to sell 'em.
operator's compartment is semi-waterproof....allright okay, i'll stop it.
but that _is_ how i crush cans. i collect them in the "hopper" located over the drive axle and then pitch them onto the driveway. only pia is picking them back up to sell 'em.
Talltom
ArboristSite Operative
For cans I use a manually actuated size 13. Can't imagine where all those cans would come from.
For milling - I think you have a good start on the replacement for the space shuttle. I see a height adjustment on the outside but one isn't apparent on the inside. Since it looks like you will be cutting to the side of your ladder/guide, you will need to adjust the height for every cut, no?
For milling - I think you have a good start on the replacement for the space shuttle. I see a height adjustment on the outside but one isn't apparent on the inside. Since it looks like you will be cutting to the side of your ladder/guide, you will need to adjust the height for every cut, no?
I used to use a size 11 shoe, then when that hurt, I used a piece of firewood and a welding glove, then I had too much time on my hands and built the device in the video. I wish i'd have built it years ago.
On the outboard adjustment...yes.....it is there. On the in board, it is there too. In the pics, the cross-bar is against the saw grab-handle and in back of it is an adjustable slide. It is on an angle, but has load bolts & jam-nuts. It can go higher, and can still cantilever against the saw grab-bar using a shim....like 2" Sq. tubing or whatever. With the main telescoping on that mount being on an angle, unlike a vertical telescope, it kinda wedges when crossing the grab-bar, and thus resists change in dimension...but there are setscrews (2) also. In the pics, with it working against the grab-bar, max log cut is 6.875" from chain teeth to it. For starters, that would allow me to do a 6x6 or a 6x15 (20" bar in pics) , which is the distance from the saw body to the outboard support on the saw in the pics, which has a 20" bar. My outrigger will allow me to use my 16",20",24",28",36" or the double-ender 44" (which is only 36" if using 2 motor heads).
On the cut adjust...I intend to raise the log on it's table, saw & ladder are to be stationary. The adjustments on the saw roller table are only provided for different bar lengths and if I want to cut thicker than ~6". I can do an 8" thick which for now is about all I can imagine?
NASA here we come.
Reminds me of NASA spending millions $$$ to make an ink-pen work in zero gravity.....the russians just used a pencil.
On the outboard adjustment...yes.....it is there. On the in board, it is there too. In the pics, the cross-bar is against the saw grab-handle and in back of it is an adjustable slide. It is on an angle, but has load bolts & jam-nuts. It can go higher, and can still cantilever against the saw grab-bar using a shim....like 2" Sq. tubing or whatever. With the main telescoping on that mount being on an angle, unlike a vertical telescope, it kinda wedges when crossing the grab-bar, and thus resists change in dimension...but there are setscrews (2) also. In the pics, with it working against the grab-bar, max log cut is 6.875" from chain teeth to it. For starters, that would allow me to do a 6x6 or a 6x15 (20" bar in pics) , which is the distance from the saw body to the outboard support on the saw in the pics, which has a 20" bar. My outrigger will allow me to use my 16",20",24",28",36" or the double-ender 44" (which is only 36" if using 2 motor heads).
On the cut adjust...I intend to raise the log on it's table, saw & ladder are to be stationary. The adjustments on the saw roller table are only provided for different bar lengths and if I want to cut thicker than ~6". I can do an 8" thick which for now is about all I can imagine?
NASA here we come.
Reminds me of NASA spending millions $$$ to make an ink-pen work in zero gravity.....the russians just used a pencil.
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procarbine2k1
Addicted to ArboristSite
Hit this guy with some rep fellas. Hes a good dude for sure. I have done business with him in the past, and he is stand up as they come. Glad you joined the site John (N8ghz), glad to hear from ya.
Thanks Jeff, for the compliments, nice to find you here as well. I will keep in touch, you need to make a trip down here....maybe next summer? I should have a few of the projects you know about....semi-operational by then.
BTW, I did do Saturday @ the Bunyon thing in Cambridge, "saw" some neat stuff & got a few more ideas...also talked to Kahler's....nice folks.
John
BTW, I did do Saturday @ the Bunyon thing in Cambridge, "saw" some neat stuff & got a few more ideas...also talked to Kahler's....nice folks.
John
MHouse1028
ArboristSite Operative
hello y'all im new to the site,but i have been sawmilling with a alaskan saw mill for a couple years i use a modded 084 with a 36" bar...one thing i have learned is just start sawmilling then you'll know what you can do and cant do..one thing for sure is i like taking a stock skip tooth chain and re grinding it to 8 degree's that way when you hit your first 16 penny nail you dont have file the chain for an hour..haha..we've all been there (i now own a detector and helps cut down on those oops moments) these are things you learn anyways...just start milling and it will all fall into place..goodluck and good to here you have an interest in milling with a chainsaw
