Newbie to running older saws, question on mix ratio

[lone wolf]

I guess , you have not had many engines apart , surprising for a moto-x guy lol. JK Ben ...just Jk brother !

I see a lot of carbon in petroleum base oil run saws,is it just me?

 

[North by Northwest]

Again, the API does not say oils that meet SN must be partial or full synthetics. In fact some are not...
Those specifications you mentioned are obsolete and have been superceded. This does not make the API antiquated like YOU said.
You have a MINIMAL grasp of this subject.
And yes the complaint was filled with the BBB. Specifically the National Advertising Division of the BBB. The API had zero to do with it. ZERO! And the API doesn't require an oil be synthetic for any of their standards.

Your comprehension level is MINIMAL took you for over 2 pages to concede that I Am right !

 

[North by Northwest]

I see a lot of carbon in petroleum base oil run saws,is it just me?

Hell yeah Wolfy , Mr " I know it all " is too wet behind the ears to remember when decarbonizing was a routine part of preventative maintenance . Back when Sae. 30 was used 50-100 hr tear downs were the norm . Even today with PAO oils & heavier ratio's carbon will develop , especially if the saw is not run hard . Ester based synthetics FD rated oils help reduce deposits & smoking & odour issues substantially . The best way to avoid issues is remove the cats & tune the saw to quality oil & fuel ratio's & run it like you stole it . Keep yer chain sharp brother !

 

[North by Northwest]

What if I told you they do not do that at all.
You think a bath tub blender like Amsoil has the cheddar or expertise to test? The company I work for which is a huge company compared to Amsoil doesn't do any testing. What they do is buy an additive package from a company like Lubrizol and blend it with a specific suite of base oils which despite being an oil company, we dont make. In the case of my company they then submit the blended product to the API for testing. Of course Amsoil as an example doesn't do this.
The OEM's do test engines in load cells and such, but that's not for lubricant testing.

Oem's do more than load tests brother I worked @ Kawasaki Midwest . We did intensive testing & calibration with various oils on numerous test engines in the dynarometer room . We had shelves of various air cooled & liquid cooled engines in various displacement & stages of testing in commercial & experimental snowmobile & motorcycle criteria . We ran then till they failed !

 

[North by Northwest]

Shell, Castrol and exxon have all made or make certified oils.
And its not a marketing ploy at all as the equipment manufacturers are the ones that request certification.
And certification has nothing to do with composition. It's performance testing.
API TC isn't in use anymore and hasn't been for decades BTW.
In many cases oils that are actually certified do not coat anything more than those that are not.

I never said TC was , again poor comprehension , I said Gardner was not Jaso rated , however a quality oil !

 

[bwalker]

I never said TC was , again poor comprehension , I said Gardner was not Jaso rated !

I never said you did..I mentioned it because you love to drag out chit from 40 years ago..

 

[bwalker]

Oem's do more than load tests brother I worked @ Kawasaki Midwest . We did intensive testing & calibration with various oils on numerous test engines in the dynarometer room . We had shelves of various air cooled & liquid cooled engines in various displacement & stages of testing in commercial & experimental snowmobile & motorcycle criteria . We ran then till they failed !

I was speaking of back yard oil peddlers like Amsoil, Opti, etc.

 

[bwalker]

Hell yeah Wolfy , Mr I know it all is too wet behind the ears to remember when decarbonizing was a routine part of preventative maintenance . Back when Sae. 30 was used 50-100 hr tear downs were the norm . Even today with PAO oils & heavier ratio's carbon will develop , especially if the saw is not run hard . Ester based synthetics FD rated oils help reduce deposits & smoking & odour issues substantially . The best way to avoid issues is remove the cats & tune the saw to quality oil & fuel ratio's & run it like you stole it . Keep yer chain sharp brother !

I do realise that...I am just not living in the freaking past spouting off on chit that happened in the 60's like you. Things have changed a bit don't you think?
And I would challenge you to find a PAO based two stroke oil... you read a few things on the net and then spout off like you know what your talking about. YOU DONT.

 

[bwalker]

Your comprehension level is MINIMAL took you for over 2 pages to concede that I Am right !

You must be senile because basically not one thing you said was right.

 

[bwalker]

I see a lot of carbon in petroleum base oil run saws,is it just me?

With modern oils, no.

 

[North by Northwest]

You are asserting that certification is BS and that we should trust oil companies...basicly..

No , again you comprehension is lacking I said use quality oil , use what professionals use , what the dealers recommend , a mechanic recommends if you have not mechanical inclination . There are more quality oils " non Jaso cerified " on the market doing a fine job at under $12 a quart than any FD certified oil . That's what I said & am still saying , no one oil is fine in all applications . Clear enough !

 

[bwalker]

No , again you comprehension is lacking I said use quality oil , use what professionals use , what the dealers recommend , a mechanic recommends if you have not mechanical inclination . There are more quality oils " non Jaso cerified " on the market doing a fine job at under $12 a quart than any FD certified oil . That's what I said & am still saying , no one oil is fine in all applications . Clear enough !

Mechanics, professional ideas and especially dealers typicly don't know squat beyond what Stihl or Husky or some other OEM told them. Many of those same guys think Ultra is good oil for god sakes.
And what I am saying is you the consumer have no way of know how good an oil is with out sta dard testing..
It's also not required to spend 12 dollars a quart for a FD rated oil.

 

[North by Northwest]

I once put all new gaskets in a 300 Ford. Not a rebuild, just new gaskets and seals. Truck had close to 300k and the engine had never been touched . I scraped about 16 tons of old Quaker State out of the oil pan , lifter gallery, and valve covers. I took a chance after that and used Castrol full synthetic . The new Fel-Pro gaskets held up to the full syn oil and after about 6000 miles the oil still looked new. Sold that old truck soon after, but I bet it is still running strong somewhere. I believe the new 2t synthetic oil, no matter the brand to be far superior to Homelite 32:1 that I ran years ago. Also looks like the synthetic takes to mixing with gas much better than the old oils.

Majority of Manufactured based oils are minimium quality oil package with a $3 mark up back then , today you still see marginal OEM packages offered , its got better the last few yrs with more than. 1 grade of oil being offered but again at a much higher price point than justified. Buyer beware !

 

[North by Northwest]

Mechanics, professional ideas and especially dealers typicly don't know squat beyond what Stihl or Husky or some other OEM told them. Many of those same guys think Ultra is good oil for god sakes.
And what I am saying is you the consumer have no way of know how good an oil is with out sta dard testing..
It's also not required to spend 12 dollars a quart for a FD rated oil.

So , now my buddy who cuts professionally & owns more saws within his company than the two local dealers in town can't recognize quality oil or mix fuel or tune & rebuild saws adequately . My other buddy who builds , races & owns more cycles & sleds then you & me & our brothers , is the same ? Get your head out of your behind brother , your delusional . As for Ultra , I know it's lack of quality 1st hand , because I have tore down at least 6 stihl running it , took 2 hrs cleaning up the mess & damage . Only the Stihl 4Mix units tolerate it with the prescribed 50 hr valve cleaning tear down scheduling from the dealer . So put your words of wisdom up front name 3 quality FD oils priced @ under $12 a quart .

 

[North by Northwest]

I do realise that...I am just not living in the freaking past spouting off on chit that happened in the 60's like you. Things have changed a bit don't you think?
And I would challenge you to find a PAO based two stroke oil... you read a few things on the net and then spout off like you know what your talking about. YOU DONT.

There are numerous Group IV oils on the market which use PAO base stock . However I was including Group III or highly refined mineral oils in this potential for carbon issues , if insufficient heat is not attained within the combustion chamber to efficiently burn the fuel charge . Ester based oils with their superior cleaning package within Group V oils , preclude normal carbon fouling when mixed properly .

 

[North by Northwest]

I do realise that...I am just not living in the freaking past spouting off on chit that happened in the 60's like you. Things have changed a bit don't you think?
And I would challenge you to find a PAO based two stroke oil... you read a few things on the net and then spout off like you know what your talking about. YOU DONT.

Perhaps , if you were around back in the 60's you could better speak of things that originated back then with more wisdom . Also , perhaps you would have had a rude awakening when you made unsubstantiated & demeaning remarks to your elders . You come across as a very small minded individual Ben , it would serve you well to clean up your act accordingly , there are many knowledgible individuals & professionals included. Anyhow , i assure you I have yrs of experience hands on , through numerous trades although the advent of the internet certainly beats the library for that moot point , your are correct Sir !

 

[North by Northwest]

The gaskets and seals from the 50's, 60's and 70's leak using modern synthetic engine and transmission oils, it wicks through cork and rapidly breaks down the natural rubbers previously used.
Older blends of engine oil cooked off/ evaporated and broke down rapidly from the heat/fuel and lubricated poorly due less refinement and the additive packages used. To help combat this thicker grades of oil were used, it was very common to have sludge from the older oils. Constantly getting the oil topped off at fill ups was more from the oil cooking off not engine tolerances tho the tolerances quickly went out of whack once run low on oil or not changing it often.

1st generation synthetic oil mainly highly refined mineral oils or PAO base stock had a tendency to cause sealing compound ( seals / gaskets) shrinkage & deformation . This often was compounded due to the lighter viscosity of synthetic oils . Older engine designs or even tolerances often poised leakage problems internally or externally with the newer synthetic oils . Gradually automotive sealibility was upgraded via better materials & oil refiniment to Ester based synthetic oil solved much of these initial concerns . Ester actually was utilized within "High Milage " engine oil blends to condition old worn or brittle seals & gaskets & induce and swelling effect which prevented further leakage problems . Thats why its well known , not one form of oil works well in all applications or usages . A little common sence or knowledge helps , otherwise often also referred to as experience brother !

 

[bwalker]

So , now my buddy who cuts professionally & owns more saws within his company than the two local dealers in town can't recognize quality oil or mix fuel or tune & rebuild saws adequately . My other buddy who builds , races & owns more cycles & sleds then you & me & our brothers , is the same ? Get your head out of your behind brother , your delusional . As for Ultra , I know it's lack of quality 1st hand , because I have tore down at least 6 stihl running it , took 2 hrs cleaning up the mess & damage . Only the Stihl 4Mix units tolerate it with the prescribed 50 hr valve cleaning tear down scheduling from the dealer . So put your words of wisdom up front name 3 quality FD oils priced @ under $12 a quart .

Yea, that's exactly what I am saying. Not always the case, but very often it is.

 

[bwalker]

There are numerous Group IV oils on the market which use PAO base stock . However I was including Group III or highly refined mineral oils in this potential for carbon issues , if insufficient heat is not attained within the combustion chamber to efficiently burn the fuel charge . Ester based oils with their superior cleaning package within Group V oils , preclude normal carbon fouling when mixed properly .

Two cycle oils and if they are numerous list them.
And ester oils will foul up an engine just like anything else if they aren't combusted properly.

 

[bwalker]

1st generation synthetic oil mainly highly refined mineral oils or PAO base stock had a tendency to cause sealing compound ( seals / gaskets) shrinkage & deformation . This often was compounded due to the lighter viscosity of synthetic oils . Older engine designs or even tolerances often poised leakage problems internally or externally with the newer synthetic oils . Gradually automotive sealibility was upgraded via better materials & oil refiniment to Ester based synthetic oil solved much of these initial concerns . Ester actually was utilized within "High Milage " engine oil blends to condition old worn or brittle seals & gaskets & induce and swelling effect which prevented further leakage problems . Thats why its well known , not one form of oil works well in all applications or usages . A little common sence or knowledge helps , otherwise often also referred to as experience brother !

AGAIN you don't know what your talking about. Group 3 oils, which you refer to as highly refined mineral oils do not and have not caused seal issues.