Nik's Poulan Thread

[Eccentric]

If I'm not doing a complete rebuild and just a fix and go type. Thats all I do. Check the seals and if only one is leaking that is the one that gets replaced and back to the wood pile.

That USED to be my plan of action. What happened with my Homelite has changed my mind (in regards to 30+ year old crank seals on saws that I do real work with). Rubber parts have a finite life. They may not be leaking now..............but they can let go while the saw's running. BTDT. On a GTG/fun saw that's probably not going to be a problem however...

Kostas I use 'modified' screwdrivers, picks, and sometimes CAREFULLY installed wood/sheet metal screws (in the metal seal body) with pliers or a small slide hammer. Taping them in a tad with a punch before pulling them out helps break the 30-40 year grip too. Also, carefully drilling a few 'relief' holes in the seal body helps relieve the tension and grip too.

 

[a. palmer jr.]

cruising 3500 posts and thought I'd add to this old post.
I must say that this saw could definitely have benefited from a decompression valve. Mine has nearly removed my arm at the shoulder joint a few times.
I have no idea as to why the kickback or a fix. Too bad there is not a way to cheaply add one of those valves.

I put an elasto start on a couple of my saws and it helps some. I've had a couple of Stihls that you really have to pull through like you mean it! The small ones are okay but my 044 and 064 were kinda brutal.

 

[3000 FPS]

Well about a year ago I came on the Poulan sticky and asked if someone had a old piece of a saw that I could practice doing some magnesium welding on. Well Mr. redunshee thank you very much and this one is for you.
Roger.

 

[Nardoo]

Well about a year ago I came on the Poulan sticky and asked if someone had a old piece of a saw that I could practice doing some magnesium welding on. Well Mr. redunshee thank you very much and this one is for you.
Roger.

Nice work! Betcha didn't didn't expect to catch the Poulan virus so easy.

 

[3000 FPS]

Nice work! Betcha didn't didn't expect to catch the Poulan virus so easy.

It did not take me to long to figure out which were the quality saws and the best bang for the buck.

 

[redunshee]

Well about a year ago I came on the Poulan sticky and asked if someone had a old piece of a saw that I could practice doing some magnesium welding on. Well Mr. redunshee thank you very much and this one is for you.
Roger.

Great job, Roger. Now, I can put my recent 3700 back together.
Bob

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

Well about a year ago I came on the Poulan sticky and asked if someone had a old piece of a saw that I could practice doing some magnesium welding on. Well Mr. redunshee thank you very much and this one is for you.
Roger.

Your welding and repairs are always amazing to me. Great work is a understatement, but all I can come up with. :msp_thumbup::msp_thumbsup:

 

[3000 FPS]

Your welding and repairs are always amazing to me. Great work is a understatement, but all I can come up with. :msp_thumbup::msp_thumbsup:

Thanks Kevin.

 

[cobey]

who knows what chain and bars interchange on the new pp5020av??? what chain do I have on it
from the factory

 

[Modifiedmark]

who knows what chain and bars interchange on the new pp5020av??? what chain do I have on it
from the factory

The 5020 uses what is commanly refered to as a small Husqvarna mount and Oregon designates it as a K095 mount.

They come from the factory with a Oregon 72V chain.

 

[nthums1]

3500 fuel vent

Seems no one found for sure about fuel tank venting. I gave the best look I could without major tear down for the vent at the location of the PP380 and could not see it. Of note is that the part number of that piece for the two saws is different. And no one seemed to know where that duckbill, line splice, line, and plug shown on an IPL page was actually located on saw.
So I altered mine with drilling hole next to fuel line tank entry. My first setup worked fine. No more fuel starvation issues and sucking tank into vacuum causing lean running and likely the frozen ring.
I may have old issue or ethanol issue. I had used a old Homelite duckbill with line the first time and hung a fuel filter for screening on the opposite end of line. I tucked this into the carb box. The duckbill broke and this allowed fuel to back up into the carb box and area. This left an oil film saturating entire area and an accumulation of sawdust and plugging of air filter. Ethanol issues, more in next post. I got some new tygon that could stand up to pure ethanol and an echo vent valve. The 3/16 line fit nicely in the new hole and this seems to have bit the snake.

 

[nthums1]

3500 fuel line

I specifically started looking for a better tygon or any line that could stand up to ethanol. It now appears I've been bitten by that snake a number of times over the years. Sometimes it may have just been poor quality fuel line or weakness of OE lines. Hardening, becoming brittle is one issue. Dissolving line and other material to the point that it creates a slime on the carb screen is a pain which requires carb work and a total flush of fuel system. And the cup of fuel I dumped from 3400, last used last summer, is black! Very black as in not being able to see through it in a two inch diameter container. I believe it was Homelite synthetic @ 32:1. Makes me wonder if some of the black tank was being dissolved.
Much line that is available, even OE parts, often have the caveat, "not for more than 10% ethanol." And I suspect that over time it too breaks down. Like maybe necessary to replace at least annually. I found lots of threads among boat people that were in search of better line as well. Most of their finds were not available in line small enough for saws, any saw you could carry at least.
But after finding some tygon LP1100, LP being low permeation, I find that I may have the wrong size. Is there a chart anywhere to cross OE part numbers to size?
I thought the line on the 3400 was 3/16" OD x 3/32" ID. I find it loose in the fuel tank hole. I did cross one of the Poulan numbers to that size but am now confused as to whether that was from my blower or from my 1600 trimmer.
{BTW, that old trimmer, acquired used. And abused. Had the wrong plug, one way too hot and found carbon with lots of scoring on cylinder and piston. Cleaned that up and put new ring in it. And it fired up. It ran a bit weak, but with each use it got stronger. That was 20 + years ago, until two summers ago it got bit with fuel issue it seems. It sat all last year. Put new carb kit in it and LP1100 lines. Took some effort to get it to run till line and carb were purged. It now runs better than ever and starts within three pulls. One if it is warm.}
3/16 = 0.1875 which is what seems loose in the 3400 tank hole. I have some 0.203 OD premium line and some of the new gray Homelite 0.205 OD. Either of those would seem to fit in the hole tight. But I don't know the real characteristics of either of those line. Does anyone here know what that Homelite stuff is? As to the "premium" line, I will need to see if I can get specs from seller.

And I will be going back to ethanol free gas, now that it is easy for me to get locally. Not sure what octane but I know many are using it in boats. Might even be the same stuff available at marinas. Older machines, 2 or 4 cycle all called for 87 pre-ethanol, as I recall. Reason being, easier starting. Ethanol issues seem to have moved the requirement to premium, 91 or 93 octane. Even says to use premium on some oil bottles I've come across. Does anyone know if going to lower octane alcohol free fuel is an issue???
Are newest engines so finely setup that they require higher octane? The only reason I know of requiring higher octane is the detonation issue. That can be caused by hot spots in combustion chamber. If not by poor design, it can be from carbon. And some newer vehicle engines require premium to get full power. The GM 3.6 has like a 11:1 compression. The higher the compression, the better the efficiency. Sensors adjust for lesser fuel to avoid detonation.
I would think lower octane not an issue for any older machine. And I'd think that even the newest 2 cycle would not have gone to high compression, without a gov ment mandate. To me, it seems that hot spots might be the only issue to be watchful of. Thus, clean burning and higher octane to be on the safe side. And back to harder starting with higher octane.

But I'm not betting the ranch. Some of the stuff I've read in this forum sounds like there are a few "Tim Allen" types. Anyone milled the heads, gone to pop-up pistons, fuel-injected, turbo'ed, or blown their machine? ;-

My aim is for my machine to start when I want without a lot of tinkering.

 

[cmarti]

It did not take me to long to figure out which were the quality saws and the best bang for the buck.

That is some nice work.:msp_thumbup: If you guys ever need a laugh, I will post some of my welds.....:msp_scared:

 

[nthums1]

3500 muffler

Well, after new lines, vent, and fuel, it struggled to remain running, like fuel starvation. Like maybe slimed carb. It eventually cleared and it was really barking. That is when I noticed part of the front muffler portion was missing.

And that puts me in an issue of what to order. I've got 3500 type III per tag. IPL list a type I and II muffler sections. It appears to be a poor drawing, not a picture, and neither look like what I have.
Thus I wonder is the IPL saying that there was only two different muffler styles for this saw and not matching to saw type as they are with some other parts? Remember, this is the IPL that shows a vent assembly, possibly for the fuel, but does not show where it goes. And Poulan tech I spoke to could not explain either.

Does anyone have a PP380 they have had apart? The 3500 type II muffler is the same as the PP380 type I muffler per IPL. Sort of makes me wonder if my muffler could be a PP380 type II. And on that IPL they can't even get the designation name matched to correct part. Suspect their draftsman was smoking his breakfast.
And on that PP380 IPL it only shows one drawing of muffler and no way to tell if I have the type II part.
And for you PP380 owners, something that might interest you. Even though these two saws are quite similar, there is an added part on the PP380 behind the muffler. On the IPL, it appears to be some sort of plate at the cylinder exhaust port. It might be a heat shield, debris shield, or for air flow control and cooling. Something to avoid those unwanted hot spots in cylinder. Might even be something I'd want to add to 3500.
And that brings in another question to me. I had muffler issue at time of scoring and stuck ring. The inside bolt of muffler had backed out and had been what was rattling around in muffler for some time. And part of the exhaust gasket was also burned away allowing hot gases at cylinder fins. Improper exhaust gas flow and leak may have been contributory to cylinder ring issue. I say may because this was occurring at same time as lean burns caused by lack of fuel vent. There was a comment some time back about them just putting pieces together as they came down the line. That certainly seems to be the correct scenario along with a lack of engineering and testing.

What I also noticed of this plate, is the location of the exhaust gasket. It makes me wonder if there is adequate sealing between the plate and cylinder? Should there be a second gasket at that location?

Problem with my muffler is that the front portion has a large crack and a piece broken off. This could have been because bolts were tightened until the inner steel rectangular cylindrical piece was tightly sandwiched ensuring exhaust gasket was well compressed. It is as if that inner piece was too short for the dimensions of the inner and outer muffler body. Maybe one or both of those body pieces were improperly stamped/forged as an alternative possibility. Or maybe they just designed the dimensions wrong when they moved from type I to type II for 3500. BTW, type I had an internal baffle.
I saw some posts regarding getting rid of such internal obstructions and playing with the muffler. Any specific results? Are those saws still running without having burned up?
I ask because I've seen lots of alterations that end up negative. I don't want to end up like a friend that many years ago changed pistons in a vette engine for performance. Ended up burning holes in pistons about every 500 miles, but it ran like a scalded cat. Or like those who punch out catalytic converters and have their engine die prematurely from burned valves or something else because they messed the proper back pressure.
Anyone put a header on their machine? ;-
If replacing all of the muffler parts resulted in a correct fit, that would be one way to go. No way of knowing unless I buy all parts, unless one of you have info?
Or I could try to replace just that front piece, if I can find the correct one, and then add oversized washers just under the front cover to relieve the pressure on the assembly that forced it to crack in the first place. I say oversized so that pressure would be applied as uniformly as possible, without special parts, to that internal rectangular tube that then transfers the pressure to the rear and seals the exhaust gasket. (I'm trying to avoid deforming that tube.) And that will now put a gap between that tube and the front muffler body, except where the washers exist. That will definitely change the characteristics of the muffler. Flow and sound will definitely be altered. Maybe I'll have Bose sound qualities. ;-

What say you all?

 

[OhioGregg]

nthums1,
Here is a pic of a muffler I got from Poulan, for my PP380. Its not the same as what was on it, but either will work just fine. Mine is a type 1 from 1997. The plate you speak of,is just that, a heat shield.

Here is a shot of whats on it.

Here is the newer one.

Gregg,

 

[nthums1]

don't overthink it, the guy with the vett burned holes in his pistons from detonation, he needed to use higher octane fuel and proper ignition timing

The cracks could be the result of vibration running with loose bolts

a picture is worth a thousand words.

He was running 110 octane which was easy to get back then. You could probably see the lead in it.
I had little to do with it and those that did were tinkerers. Arctic Cat snowmobiles had some one and two lungers. Shop had a number of two lungers that someone put the plug from one lunger in. Plug was much hotter and burned hole through piston. Who'd have thought?

Area of front muffler section that cracked loose has been pulled inward from pressure of bolt, and internal section would determine the limit. Might have been designed with that might pressure to force sealing where the two sections butt. But it looks like too much pressure from what I've observed.

Still it does not tell me exactly what piece I need. I can make out a partial number stamped into the face of it. 96?69. There may be other characters besides the missing one in middle. If I could only make out the middle number I might be able to say someone was seriously dyslexic. If it were a 7, plugging that number in would yield 96769 where a valid muffler number would be (5300) 69796.

I looked at the posting of the picture of really clean 3500 type I. That might be my muffler but the camera angle is not what I'd need to tell for sure. And then I really don't know the appearance differences between types other than baffle is in type I muffler for 3500.

 

[RedneckChainsawRepair]

My newest 3750 had the muffler like the top 380 pic. There is a 3500 local with same muffler.

I have a 3500 on bench with the 2nd muffler posted by Gregg.

 

[nthums1]

nthums1,
Here is a pic of a muffler I got from Poulan, for my PP380. Its not the same as what was on it, but either will work just fine. Mine is a type 1 from 1997. The plate you speak of,is just that, a heat shield.

Here is a shot of whats on it.

Here is the newer one.

Gregg,

Thanks Gregg, that is it. Your type I muffler is what is on my 3500 type III saw and listed as type II. I can now see the middle number is a 7 and looking at your new muffler, the number on it matches the IPL as type II for the 380.
Did Poulan say why the switch to type II?
They probably have a storage room full of mufflers stamped 96769 and can't find them because the IPL says 69796.
Your muffler looks rusty but OK. Why the switch?

 

[cobey]

The 5020 uses what is commanly refered to as a small Husqvarna mount and Oregon designates it as a K095 mount.

They come from the factory with a Oregon 72V chain.

how many links in the 20" chain? i have a 72 and a 70 in my shed
sorry for repeat questions Mark. what 16" bar should i order with the ko95 mount, and how
many links would the 16" 3/8ths chain have? sorry still trying to understand chain sizes. thanks again
for the great pp5020AV thread you wrote :smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2::smile2:!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Acornhill]

poulan sign finally diasplayed

I finally got around to hanging the Poulan sign, thought you guys would enjoy, sorry about the phone pic.
View attachment 286583