Octane question

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Is that cost effective?
The Klotz is $60/gallon. One gallon of Klotz makes 128 gallons of fuel. That equates to just under $0.50 for 1 oz. of Klotz per gallon of gas. Since I can’t get anything higher than 88 octane e-free at the pump, this works well.

I’m not sponsored by Klotz or anything, but they have good products. I’ve been using their R-50 synthetic 2-strike oil for many years In all my equipment. NEVER had an oil related failure. I’ve torn down engines and have been surprised by how well the Klotz protected the internals.

JQ
 
I run all professional series stihl saws with stihl ultra oil and I use the highest grade pump gas i can find ethanol or not. Higher octane burns hotter and faster. Leaving your saw cooler. Ask any mechanic. My uncle was a dealer and mechanic in Mississippi. If I'm going to pay $1600 for a saw I'm not going to go cheap on oil or gas
Stihl Ultra... eww!
Your wrong about gasoline.

High octane burns slower unless you put in more additives like oxygen in winter fuels mixed for certain locations.

It's pretty obvious the amount of misinformation available. My mill with a ported 660 will run on 86 octane E10 just fine. If your not testing your just reading.

Storage is best with fuel stabilizers with ll100 imho. Dry storage is a mistake imho.
Boat gas has no Eth in it at most reputable places it is sold.

If people actually went and read data sheets on fuel and oil they might understand them better.

Blue oil and red oil are good oils 😴😱
Back to your regularly scheduled chitchat ;-)
 
Did you just read the literature I posted directly from Stihl, but what do they know......
Not much with the machine work coming from them based on detonation tendencies. The head clearance shows the lack of thought leaving so much in many models to avoid issues they created. Funny how their **** oil keeps rolling out on warranty claims. If they sold Echo quality Red Armor type oil the comebacks would surely be less yet they don't. You won't see Stihl koolaide being offered up from over here.
 
Seems to loose punch and running time why is this?
Light ends evaporate every time you open a large container with lots of head space. Every time you open it you loose light ends that evaporated from the liquid last time you opened the container E10 does this very well and losses it's punch rather quickly. Eth is considered light ends. Hooch can shed some light on this. Leave it out in the sun with a sealed cap what happens? Vent the container in the sun and you now know what happens.
 
Like I said requires it. They can state you should use 93 octane but that doesn't mean that the engine requires it and I haven't seen a factory saw come with enough compression to need it.

My 1940 Ford 9N tractor takes E10 better than anything new. 3 cleanable stainless fuel screens/filters, glass sediment bowl, steel fuel line. cast iron carb that E10 don't rot, brass float and brass needle/seat. It still will make E10 snot inside the carb bowl but I can flush it out the drain.

I'll add E10 is a waste of good farmland that should be growing food. It is not "green" as it uses almost as much fuel to make.

Youth today can't figure out how to make change without a cash register. Ask one to figure out a 5% sales tax? They will look at you like a sheep. Most can't handle long division. Their shoe size is larger than their IQ.

College? I taught it. Newer students who supposedly know math asked to make a logarithmic plot of their data. More sheep looks. A "log" is something you throw on a fire or that button on the calculator.......... I had a full year of calculus in high school and never had a calculator until I took calculus.

Downfall of math skills was the advent of the cheap calculator. How many of today's students even know multiplication tables up to 12 today? That used to be a 4th or 5th grade skill.

Grammar and spelling has suffered since PCs became available. "texting" has *******ized the language


+1
I took two years of accounting at the local community college when I was 14 and 15 YO back in the early 60s. I rather liked it and was some what successful. After the first six months the professor called me for a conference which alarmed me. He told me that he quit grading or looking over my test results because he never found a single error at that time. He encouraged me to continue the classes but try not to be overly concerned about my work because it is likely well understood. So that was a nice encouragement. I also took several English classes in high school and college. I was not great at getting my English done on time because I spent more time with the dictionary than on my papers because I can not spell period. I could not do many things I do with out a computer because I still can not spell and never will. I took Trig and Calculus and Physics doing well but not spelling. Thanks
 
I work in oil refining. In the last 20 years refiners have invested billions of dollars into equipment to remove BTX. Is there some still present? Yes, but at very minimal levels. The days of jacking up aromatic(BTX) levels to increase octane is long gone and the EPA mandates this.
Higher octane fuels do not burn slower.... in fact if they did it would lower their octane rating. Detonation takes heat and time to manifest itself. Anything you do to slow down combustion increase the risk of Detonation.
Putting a match into a hydrocarbon doesn't prove anything. Detonation isn't normal combustion, it's abnormal combustion....

""""""CAUSED BY HEAT AND PRESSURE."""""""
I just finished half a sentence there ;-)

And yes I have taken both organic and inorganic chemistry in HS and college. You are talking about theory and I am telling you that in practice premium and 87 have the same energy content depending on the time you take the sample. The thing you must consider is there is no recipe or formula for gasoline. It's a chemical soup of a variety of components that are constantly blended to hit a performance specification. Some refinery streams are poor quality and some are high quality, but at the end of the day they all will be blended and nothing is wasted.

Quote]

A lot of what this gentlemen says I won't agree with but on this bit I will indeed endorse the facts of it's all about quality control to achieve generally homogeneous gas that when mixed or remixed blends seamlessly most times.

I know this to be true by fact in practice not fiction or he said she said stuff. We used to make higher octane gas by blending certain grades of Exxon Fuel with other manufactures based on the chemical composition our machinists buddy actual had the fuels all tested for content. Then another guy, probably a chemist, figured out how to blend this with that so we ended up with 95 octane pump gas just to run high static compression ratios on the street in the 80's and 90's. We did all this with bi-yearly testing updates to stay up on the game. I personally found, imo mine only, that higher concentrations of NTBE over 15% degrade rubber parts and the old cheap plastic carb bowl washers turn to mush on Holley AM clear washers. This combined with ethanol I believe is a major leading cause of rubber failures under heated up engine operating conditions when mixed with gasoline. We know E10 does a number on parts by etching over time like brass or aluminum. That still doesn't account for rubber segregation, disintegration and dry cracking or black death snot. E10 with other nasties and added heat just might.

So we made less power with higher octane but avoided detonation and saved some parts. Octane as stated above is just a retardant nothing more. Oxygen in the fuel is where the real power is if your purely interested in making more with less not octane increasing additives. Remember it IS just an additive for a specific outcome it really increases nothing.

Any test not directly performed on a running engine are near worthless in my experiences. Ether in fuel probably causes more issues then all the rest combined with damage being the end result but why?...
In a nutshell, damaging light ends that infiltrate nearly everything synthetic or rubber related. They carry away the heavier petroleum oils preset in soft materials. Damage done and not reversible.
 
Fellas, I appreciate all of the responses and all of the experience.
From all of this I've gained the following:

1) Run at least 89 octane even though the compression in most saws doesn't warrant it.
2) Run E-free (unless you absolutely cant find any, and even then, drain/flush with premix or E-free and run dry before putting in layup).
3) Theres a good mix of beliefs on here about fuels haha.

For my situation, I believe I'll have to run 93 octane, 10% E and then drain/flush with premix, e-free before layup.
I know theres also two trains of thought on storing with fuel/without but I think I'll try the without method.

Again, Sorry for bringing up an old argument, I searched the site for past posts but didnt get info I was looking for.
Has anyone attempted to make a general chainsaw pointers post for all new members? Something that would cover the go to chainsaws and their competition for each task, fuels, tools, storage, etc.?

I'd do it myself but I dont have the experience to back any claims (and dont want to just repeat what I've read/heard).

Probably a pie in the sky idea but just thought I'd ask.

Again, thanks for the responses fellas!
 
The Klotz is $60/gallon. One gallon of Klotz makes 128 gallons of fuel. That equates to just under $0.50 for 1 oz. of Klotz per gallon of gas. Since I can’t get anything higher than 88 octane e-free at the pump, this works well.

I’m not sponsored by Klotz or anything, but they have good products. I’ve been using their R-50 synthetic 2-strike oil for many years In all my equipment. NEVER had an oil related failure. I’ve torn down engines and have been surprised by how well the Klotz protected the internals.

JQ
I doubt you’re running 128:1, so your math is probably off a bit. 1 gallon of oil makes the same number of gallons of mix as your ratio.

50:1 = 50 gallons to 1 gallon
32:1 = 32 gallons to 1 gallon
 
you know what, here s your sign , this is mint for about 1/2 of the posters of this thread lol
1. corn a hall has water in it and draws more water, rots rubber and gums up carbs
2. 93 octane is better than 87
3. metal cans store gas longer
4. mix 50 to 1 if you use Stihl mix
5. If you use a saw for a living run what you brung
6.. that's all you need to know
 
Lead as it comes out of the exhaust pipes is not absorbed by critters particularly easily. The damage is done by organo-lead compounds... like in old paint.
If there is an improvement in IQ (I don't see it), it is far more likely due to the phase-out of lead in paint.
 
Lead as it comes out of the exhaust pipes is not absorbed by critters particularly easily. The damage is done by organo-lead compounds... like in old paint.

If there is an improvement in IQ (I don't see it), it is far more likely due to the phase-out of lead in paint.

Lead as it comes out of the exhaust pipes is not absorbed by critters particularly easily. The damage is done by organo-lead compounds... like in old paint.
If there is an improvement in IQ (I don't see it), it is far more likely due to the phase-out of lead in paint.
It is absorbed through the lungs pretty easily.
 

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