Open Source Logging?

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Congress responsible??? Hahaha. That's the most irresponsible bunch of yahoo's I've ever heard of.
I think you hit the nail on the head though when you said that people in the Forest Service have different agendas.

Andy

I'm telling it like it is. Congress is in charge of the budget allocations. They are the purse strings agencies rely on. They, like the President, could change laws and fund projects but they have more important things to do---like get re-elected. That's all my politics for now.

The laws need to be tweaked if not redone. Nate, that's the problem. One person can hold up or stop a project and there is always one. There have been collaborative groups elsewhere--The Quincy Library Group, and one in NE Oregon who had a majority come together and agree to some management projects.
One or two people brought each to a stop. These people are self righteous and will not allow projects that are economical and environmentally feasible, to go through. Then the project ends up in court....and the decider is a law school graduate who might go camping or fishing once in a while, but that's the extent of their forest knowledge.

I had a timber sale where the judge even decided the logging method. NO GROUND BASED EQUIPMENT was to be used. Never mind the topography. Luckily, the market was good then, and the loggers were willing to use intermediate supports even though there was no allowance for the extra cost, and every unit was logged. Now, 100 feet away, on the exact same terrain, a new sale with ground based equipment was sold and logged. Does that make sense? I liked to work around yarders more than skidders, and the yarder ground looks nicer, but looking at it from a practical direction, it made no sense.

I think the new sale next to the old one got through because it had a lot of helicopter logging on it. That was because roads in the Matrix management areas (supposed to be managed for timber) had been decommissioned. To open them up would have invited a court fight, even though that area was supposed to be managed for timber production and consisted of plantations that had been managed for that end.
There was a large unit that would have had to have 4 culverts installed in a washed out road. By the way, the road also accesses Port Blakely lands. In fact, the planning process was almost completed with the plan to reinstall the culverts and at the FINAL planning meeting, one of the 'ologists spoke up saying it couldn't be done and the unit was switched to a helicopter unit. The ranger always let the 'ologists make the decisions.

Not sure, but I suspect that contract modifications have since been done throwing out the many acres of helicopter units due to the market crash and the high cost of heli logging. That would be over half the volume of that sale.

If you really want to feel depressed, scan The Oregonian, or The Seattle Times for the occasional article about an upcoming timber sale. The comments will show you how brainwashed most folks are.

Right now, Highway 2, Stevens Pass is closed because trees are toppling over from the snow load. Two people were killed the other night. I feel bad but I would like to see it stay closed and no trees cut just out of orneryness.

The same folks who are anti-timber are also experiencing having a project they want being stalled the way timber sales are. The Suiattle River Road accessed a trailhead leading into the Glacier Peak Wilderness.
It washed out and there are plans to rebuild it. One guy, backed by a national enviro group, is appealing and suing and doing what we are familiar with. The comments by some of the tree hugger hikers prove their hypocracy--the road realignment would go through a patch of old growth and they are supporting that, because they do not want to drive farther or walk an extra 9 miles to get to the wilderness.

The hikers are organized, have money, and have the masses behind them. I'm hoping the suer wins, just because I'd like them to get a taste of their own medicine, but I don't think that will happen.

Have I said enough? Have a good Christmas eve. The best Christmas movie ever, starts tonight and goes for 24 hours--Don't shoot your eye out!



I wish I could e-mail this thread to all the politicians, but I don't have the millions of dollars to get them interested. Ooops sorry about that.
 
The suiattle river road is a real funny one, many moons ago my Grandpappy was hired to pave and straighten it out, (maybe build it the strories are old) by none other then the SIERRA CLUB...


The really funny thing about it is that the part of the road that is washed out is a rather small strecth with a well used jeep trail to get around it. and the old growth is much much farther in... The timber is just big second growth, from the days when the FS would burn the units after logging, or third growth hemlock, depending on which part you happen to be playing in... I have a pikture of the wash out somewhere...
 
I'm telling it like it is. Congress is in charge of the budget allocations. They are the purse strings agencies rely on. They, like the President, could change laws and fund projects but they have more important things to do---like get re-elected. That's all my politics for now.

The laws need to be tweaked if not redone. Nate, that's the problem. One person can hold up or stop a project and there is always one. There have been collaborative groups elsewhere--The Quincy Library Group, and one in NE Oregon who had a majority come together and agree to some management projects.
One or two people brought each to a stop. These people are self righteous and will not allow projects that are economical and environmentally feasible, to go through. Then the project ends up in court....and the decider is a law school graduate who might go camping or fishing once in a while, but that's the extent of their forest knowledge.

I had a timber sale where the judge even decided the logging method. NO GROUND BASED EQUIPMENT was to be used. Never mind the topography. Luckily, the market was good then, and the loggers were willing to use intermediate supports even though there was no allowance for the extra cost, and every unit was logged. Now, 100 feet away, on the exact same terrain, a new sale with ground based equipment was sold and logged. Does that make sense? I liked to work around yarders more than skidders, and the yarder ground looks nicer, but looking at it from a practical direction, it made no sense.

I think the new sale next to the old one got through because it had a lot of helicopter logging on it. That was because roads in the Matrix management areas (supposed to be managed for timber) had been decommissioned. To open them up would have invited a court fight, even though that area was supposed to be managed for timber production and consisted of plantations that had been managed for that end.
There was a large unit that would have had to have 4 culverts installed in a washed out road. By the way, the road also accesses Port Blakely lands. In fact, the planning process was almost completed with the plan to reinstall the culverts and at the FINAL planning meeting, one of the 'ologists spoke up saying it couldn't be done and the unit was switched to a helicopter unit. The ranger always let the 'ologists make the decisions.

Not sure, but I suspect that contract modifications have since been done throwing out the many acres of helicopter units due to the market crash and the high cost of heli logging. That would be over half the volume of that sale.

If you really want to feel depressed, scan The Oregonian, or The Seattle Times for the occasional article about an upcoming timber sale. The comments will show you how brainwashed most folks are.

Right now, Highway 2, Stevens Pass is closed because trees are toppling over from the snow load. Two people were killed the other night. I feel bad but I would like to see it stay closed and no trees cut just out of orneryness.

The same folks who are anti-timber are also experiencing having a project they want being stalled the way timber sales are. The Suiattle River Road accessed a trailhead leading into the Glacier Peak Wilderness.
It washed out and there are plans to rebuild it. One guy, backed by a national enviro group, is appealing and suing and doing what we are familiar with. The comments by some of the tree hugger hikers prove their hypocracy--the road realignment would go through a patch of old growth and they are supporting that, because they do not want to drive farther or walk an extra 9 miles to get to the wilderness.

The hikers are organized, have money, and have the masses behind them. I'm hoping the suer wins, just because I'd like them to get a taste of their own medicine, but I don't think that will happen.

Have I said enough? Have a good Christmas eve. The best Christmas movie ever, starts tonight and goes for 24 hours--Don't shoot your eye out!



I wish I could e-mail this thread to all the politicians, but I don't have the millions of dollars to get them interested. Ooops sorry about that.

I was just being facetious, I know congress holds the purse strings. Even if it is like giving a 10 year old your credit card, and turning them loose in a toy store. :dizzy:
I don't think "tweeking" laws works. If the law is crappy, you can't get all the crap out. Kinda like baking brownies. Brownies are good, but if you get just a little poop in the mix you have to throw the whole batch out. You just can't get all the poop out of em once it's mixed in.
These laws need to be thrown out, and new more reasonable ones put in their place.
I don't think that would get all the crap out of the mix. Maybe cut it down from 2 cups of poop in the mix, to 1/2 cup? Doesn't matter much, any poop in the mix will sure screw up a batch of brownies. :laugh:
Merry Christmas!!

Andy
 
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