Yep, that's what I remember from that thread.
Philbert's Chain Salvage Challenge
- Thread starter Philbert
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Yep, that's what I remember from that thread.
zogger
Tree Freak
I doubt the oily part matters. I would guess you could use most anything like that, even some hydraulic oil. Don't know that for a fact, just sayin'. I would try the acetone and whatever ATF/PSF or whatever is on sale at O'autorileypeppedupboyzone
BTW guys, try the archives link! You can get to all the last posts!
http://www.arboristsite.com/archive/index.php/f-9-p-499.html
That's a main point of this thread!
The last few pages have been focusing on rust. But I have seen many chains thrown away because they got pinched, and twisted a couple of links. Once I learned about using a spinner and breaker to replace damaged links or to re-size a loop, the cost of a set was quickly justified .
Rocked cutters can be ground back without burning the chain. Burred drive links can be filed or ground smooth. Etc., etc., etc. It may not be cost effective to do all of these at shop labor rates, but it's really based on the same skill set as sharpening, and understanding how chains work.
I get a lot of satisfaction out of rescuing a chain, aside from the frugal factor.
Other points of the thread are to exchange ideas, and just to try some things with really screwed up chains, that might have some pay off later on in saving a pretty good chain.
Philbert
I tried a Google search "Arboristsite, ATF, acetone, rust" and got several promising thread leads, but could not link to any of them.
It did bring up several threads on other, mechanical sites. A few points of note:
- one kept stressing that the magic blend is power steering fluid (PSF) and acetone, not ATF (I don't know the chemical differences);
- a good warning about the flammability (explosive) of acetone: I had a friend who had some blow up in his face while he was using some for cleaning and somehow created a spark.
It's on my list.
Philbert
It did bring up several threads on other, mechanical sites. A few points of note:
- one kept stressing that the magic blend is power steering fluid (PSF) and acetone, not ATF (I don't know the chemical differences);
- a good warning about the flammability (explosive) of acetone: I had a friend who had some blow up in his face while he was using some for cleaning and somehow created a spark.
It's on my list.
Philbert
Philbert, have not been able to log on lately.(..linkbucks killing me. Im like a junkie without a fix) but my wife caught me messin in the pantry looking for the vinegar and i had to tell her what i was up to. She said. " toss some baking soda in the vinegar and see what happens" i said...ahhh but dont that make it do the volcano thing..????..so i Let the fizz go away and soaked the bolts in the vinegar and baking soda mix...seems to work better and everything is red from the rust not black like the vinegar and the ER stuff. My oxalic acid stuff just arrived. Thats next up for me.
So far i saved $10 worth of nuts and bolts with about $20 worth of "stuff" and about 5 hours of "stupid equity" formerly known as "sweat equity"...
Thanks for the motivation
So far i saved $10 worth of nuts and bolts with about $20 worth of "stuff" and about 5 hours of "stupid equity" formerly known as "sweat equity"...
Thanks for the motivation
Thanks for the progress report. I will be interested in your comparison between vinegar and Oxalic Acid. The first thing I noticed with OA is a 'halo' of rust powder that formed around the items after a few hours.
P.S. I work toward domestic tranquility by using a separate set of garage sale cookie sheets, bread pans, cake pans, etc. Also worth springing $2 for a shop gallon of vinegar, just to keep things clean.
I did get 'caught' using the oven (150* for 10 minutes) to bake any moisture out of cleaned chains to prevent re-rusting. I emphasized that these were 'clean' chains.
Philbert
P.S. I work toward domestic tranquility by using a separate set of garage sale cookie sheets, bread pans, cake pans, etc. Also worth springing $2 for a shop gallon of vinegar, just to keep things clean.
I did get 'caught' using the oven (150* for 10 minutes) to bake any moisture out of cleaned chains to prevent re-rusting. I emphasized that these were 'clean' chains.
Philbert
tedmister2
ArboristSite Operative
Philbert, have not been able to log on lately.(..linkbucks killing me. Im like a junkie without a fix) but my wife caught me messin in the pantry looking for the vinegar and i had to tell her what i was up to. She said. " toss some baking soda in the vinegar and see what happens" i said...ahhh but dont that make it do the volcano thing..????..so i Let the fizz go away and soaked the bolts in the vinegar and baking soda mix...seems to work better and everything is red from the rust not black like the vinegar and the ER stuff. My oxalic acid stuff just arrived. Thats next up for me.
So far i saved $10 worth of nuts and bolts with about $20 worth of "stuff" and about 5 hours of "stupid equity" formerly known as "sweat equity"...
Thanks for the motivation
like too funny
Tedmister... thanks.....im here strictly for the entertainment value ..most of it my own..
tedmister2
ArboristSite Operative
Tedmister... thanks.....im here strictly for the entertainment value ..most of it my own..
Yeah, me too. It is fun to laugh.....even if only in the mirror.
Steve NW WI
Unwanted Riff Raff.
Phil, Google Hagenbrew a bunch of threads from newagtalk will come up. Jon Hagen is the guy that shared the recipe there. ATF is his oil of choice and he and many others there swear by it as a WD40 etc replacement.
Yep, the Fire Marshal doesn't like acetone at all. I found this out when my Dad managed to blow up a 5 pound keg of gunpowder, with a spilled one gallon tank of 2-stroke mix that caught fire from his furnace pilot light.
After Mom hauled him to the ER for burns I had to deal with the Fire Dept. They found a can of acetone stored on top of the gas water heater, and a few other problems. this happened just before Halloween so we had him answer the door for the trick or treaters, quite the sight with the half burned face....
I come from a long line of rednecks.... Thanks for taking the challenge Philbert. I am always dealing with messed up stuff, and your sharing is helpful.
Hope your Dad is OK. I keep the flammables in the (detached) garage and the latex paints on the basement. A small amount of acetone in the shop, in a reclaimed nail polish remover bottle.
Philbert
Philbert
Not to hijack things, partly to restore some old rocked chains, I got a $100 Northern grinder. So you should be happy, Philbert. 
With zero printed guidance, it took some time & experimentation to find out how to get it to work well and quickly. But it does, quite well in fact. So a couple of trashed chains are at least now decent "stumpers."
At the other end of the spectrum, a grinder is useful with a new chain, to finish up the factory grinding process, cleaning out the gullet so there's less filing when it's time for its first filing.
Just thought you'd like to hear this, Philbert. Of course, Granberg file guide is always in my tool bag. :msp_thumbup:
With zero printed guidance, it took some time & experimentation to find out how to get it to work well and quickly. But it does, quite well in fact. So a couple of trashed chains are at least now decent "stumpers."
At the other end of the spectrum, a grinder is useful with a new chain, to finish up the factory grinding process, cleaning out the gullet so there's less filing when it's time for its first filing.
Just thought you'd like to hear this, Philbert. Of course, Granberg file guide is always in my tool bag. :msp_thumbup:
A decent grinder is an important tool for salvaging chains. Even if you choose to finish the edges with a file.
A couple of good threads on tweaking the NT grinder, and several on grinding in general. If 'search' is working try 'Oregon 511A'.
The instruction manual for the similar Oregon 511a grinder can be downloaded from Bailey's website. It is better, but still not very good for first time users.
Philbert
A couple of good threads on tweaking the NT grinder, and several on grinding in general. If 'search' is working try 'Oregon 511A'.
The instruction manual for the similar Oregon 511a grinder can be downloaded from Bailey's website. It is better, but still not very good for first time users.
Philbert
tolman_paul
ArboristSite Guru
I've used ATF to loosen up a chain that had formed just enough rust that it wouldn't move freely. I don't recall how long I soaked the chain, but it loosened up enough to get it on the saw and then running the chain seemed to do the rest.
Great thread. I've taken a bit more care in storing my chains, but there is always a chance something will happen and I'll rust one out.
Great thread. I've taken a bit more care in storing my chains, but there is always a chance something will happen and I'll rust one out.
hangfirew8
ArboristSite Operative
Chemically this is a variation of salt+vinegar you just get CO(2) bubbles as a bonus. No harm done but no additional benefit either.
Both are hydraulic oils, traditionally ATF has a little higher viscosity than PSF, but lately some auto transmissions have called for newer, lower viscosity ATF's that are more like the old PSF except for much more rigidly controlled specs. While lower viscosity may help the penetrating ability a very little, the ability of acetone to penetrate (and bring some oil with it) far outweighs any difference.
I think it comes down to "use what you got", if you have both, "use what's cheaper" or "use the can that's already open", if it's all cheap and open and you have both, use the PSF.
Yes Acetone is a flammable organic volatile (read: burns, has carbon in it, and evaporates fast). All those things are also what makes it such a fabulous penetrant and solvent. Use carefully in an outdoor environment and store in a cool dry place away from flame and spark.
If you have time to kill, Google-up "Ed's Red", which is an all-purpose CLP (Cleaner/Lubricant/Protectant). It may be of interest for those cleaning-up and storing saws in high humidity environments and wanting to avoid rust.
HF
tolman_paul
ArboristSite Guru
While Hoppes #9 may have that wonderful smell that brings me back to my first experiences with firearms, Ed's Red is cleaner of choice.
Speaking of which I need to make up a new batch.
Speaking of which I need to make up a new batch.
Agree, but I have used files also to save rusted chains after the solvents did their work as posted several times above. However, I have lots of files on hand also. The files need cleaning also.
Nobody ever said that saving rusted chains was a cakewalk. In fact, it's a mess. :msp_razz:
Absolutely. My comment on grinders was especially meant for rocked chains or to bring back those which are so unbalanced that filing would take forever. Also if you spin in replacement cutters and need to take them back a ways to match the others.
If its just rust removal, a file might only require a stroke or two more than for a regular sharpening.
Philbert
If its just rust removal, a file might only require a stroke or two more than for a regular sharpening.
Philbert
so what's the latest on the soaking chain?
