Pioneer chainsaws

[67L36Driver]

RA P.T.O. side seal.

When I disassembled this thing I found what I thought was saw cake or trash jammed into the counterbore for the seal. As I dug it out, it looked more like bale binder twine. It came out in a donut form and I slung it in the trash.

Now I'm thinking maybe that was a felt washer to hold oil to lubricate and protect the seal.

Anyone find something similar?

There looks to be enuff room to put another seal (the old one) in backwards in order to keep trash away from the seal.

 

[Rowan]

IPL / Manual for RA and NU17?

Not sure what exists, but when I do get around to working on my newly aquired projects I can imagine some literature (IPL/Manual) will be a great help.

Also if someone has a recoil or top cover/heat shield for the RA I'd be interested.

Thanks,

 

[fossil]

When I disassembled this thing I found what I thought was saw cake or trash jammed into the counterbore for the seal. As I dug it out, it looked more like bale binder twine. It came out in a donut form and I slung it in the trash.

Now I'm thinking maybe that was a felt washer to hold oil to lubricate and protect the seal.

Anyone find something similar?

There looks to be enuff room to put another seal (the old one) in backwards in order to keep trash away from the seal.

I just pulled the crank seal on the flywheel side of the HC. It had been replaced and was absolutely in pristine condition. I guess it was leaking because of the 1/32" inch gap between the seal and the crank.

 

[67L36Driver]

Not sure what exists, but when I do get around to working on my newly aquired projects I can imagine some literature (IPL/Manual) will be a great help.

Also if someone has a recoil or top cover/heat shield for the RA I'd be interested.

Thanks,

P.M. your email address to me and I can send it as an attachment. 1.63mb


Post your parts needs in the Swap Meet and The Old Magnesium Swap Meet.

 

[Lou]

1949 iel ab77

Antique chainsaw 1949 IEL Model AB77
I'm willing to help if needed.
Lou

 

[67L36Driver]

The other three showed up Friday. Next time I'll shop for those at McMaster-Carr.



Note from Jacks Small Engines says bearing is to ship June 25. Beleve it when I see it.

Nada from Parts tree on the other two bearings. I don't think it is a brick and morter outfit. Just a computer server with outdated database.

Jacks Small Engines came thru on the flywheel side bearing. Correct bore and large radius.

I need to check the PTO side and see if I put the correct bearing in there. Been so long I don't remember.

Deep in the RA project. Carcass is now Allis-Chalmers orange.

 

[67L36Driver]

RA P.T.O. side seal + felt biscuit.

Didn't throw it away after all. Put the felt biscuit/oil wick back where he was. Added a liberal dose of white lithium grease.

Not on my IPL.

Not bad for a cell phone camera.

No rings today, maybe tomorrow.:msp_sad:

 

[leeha]

Didn't throw it away after all. Put the felt biscuit/oil wick back where he was. Added a liberal dose of white lithium grease.

Not on my IPL.

Not bad for a cell phone camera.

No rings today, maybe tomorrow.:msp_sad:

That has got to be the best pic iv'e seen with
a cell phone camera.

Nice work on the RA.



Lee

 

[pioneerguy600]

Nice pict but that color is just all wrong for an RA.....LOL

 

[67L36Driver]

Nice pict but that color is just all wrong for an RA.....LOL

I'm bored with yellow. I'll pass it off as a rare Allis Chalmers.:msp_sneaky:


Cell is an Iphone.

 

[cbfarmall]

I need to get a set of IEL HC crank seals. Does anyone have a part number for some standard seals that will work?
I haven't pulled the clutch or flywheel yet but I at least know it sounds like there is almost no seal on the flywheel side under pressure.
The piston rings are sealing well. It's interesting to see that the piston is knurled.

Thanks

First, the IPLs show the HC and HM using the same seals so here's what I've crossed to:

PTO seal: Pioneer 425077, cross to CR6582
Flywheel seal: Pioneer 425076, cross to CR6541

The PTO seal is easy enough to get once you pull the clutch. To get to the flywheel seal, you will have to split the crankcase. It is buried behind a lip that makes it impossible to change without major dissassembly. Fortunately, none of it comes apart very hard.

If anybody is interested, those seals also work for the RA and by extension, probably the 600 series. The small seal works for the both sides on the 700/750/850.

Chris B.

 

[67L36Driver]

First, the IPLs show the HC and HM using the same seals so here's what I've crossed to:

PTO seal: Pioneer 425077, cross to CR6582
Flywheel seal: Pioneer 425076, cross to CR6541

The PTO seal is easy enough to get once you pull the clutch. To get to the flywheel seal, you will have to split the crankcase. It is buried behind a lip that makes it impossible to change without major dissassembly. Fortunately, none of it comes apart very hard.

If anybody is interested, those seals also work for the RA and by extension, probably the 600 series. The small seal works for the both sides on the 700/750/850.

Chris B.

Flywheel side seal was a PITA to get out of the counterbore. Resorted to a trick learned when removing Timkin bearing cups in a blind hole. Drilled two 3/32" holes from the ignition side and used a pin punch to drive him out.:msp_sneaky:

 

[fossil]

First, the IPLs show the HC and HM using the same seals so here's what I've crossed to:

PTO seal: Pioneer 425077, cross to CR6582
Flywheel seal: Pioneer 425076, cross to CR6541

The PTO seal is easy enough to get once you pull the clutch. To get to the flywheel seal, you will have to split the crankcase. It is buried behind a lip that makes it impossible to change without major dissassembly. Fortunately, none of it comes apart very hard.

If anybody is interested, those seals also work for the RA and by extension, probably the 600 series. The small seal works for the both sides on the 700/750/850.

Chris B.

Thanks Chris. That's a big help. I already have the flywheel side seal out (wrong size repsalacement which didn't even touch the crank).
I shall get some seals shortly and install on the HC.

The case on the flywheel side shows no gasket between the crankcase and the cover (which holds the seal) where it slip fits into the crankcase. do you put any Motoseal or anything here to seal it up better? I can't see how it will hold vacuum very long the way it is. Maybe these old saws aren't as critical as far as sealing goes.

 

[Warped5]

Flywheel side seal was a PITA to get out of the counterbore. Resorted to a trick learned when removing Timkin bearing cups in a blind hole. Drilled two 3/32" holes from the ignition side and used a pin punch to drive him out.:msp_sneaky:

Carl , then do you need to seal those holes? Epoxy?

 

[fossil]

Carl , then do you need to seal those holes? Epoxy?

If you do, grub screws with sealer would be better over time.

 

[cbfarmall]

I can't see how it will hold vacuum very long the way it is. Maybe these old saws aren't as critical as far as sealing goes.

Quite the opposite. These saws are very well built and the machining at the joint along with the crankcase stuffer make for a very excellent seal. I just cleaned it up real well and used some Motoseal. I'd bet my bottom dollar that if I were to separate one of my rebuilt crankcases, most of the Motoseal will have squeezed out. That's the quality in these IEL/Pioneer saws.

Chris B.

 

[cbfarmall]

Carl , then do you need to seal those holes? Epoxy?

Sounds like he's drilling from the atmosphere side of case to push the seals in. You wouldn't need to seal these holes--the seal is inboard. Just the same, I don't think I'd drill the case here. I've personally never had problems removing these seals, though I can see how a stuck one would give headaches.

Ted, you are used to standard, modern saws where you can pull the seal straight off the crank without splitting it. These Pioneers have a shoulder over the seal requiring the case to be split and the seal installed before the bearing.

Chris B.

 

[fossil]

Quite the opposite. These saws are very well built and the machining at the joint along with the crankcase stuffer make for a very excellent seal. I just cleaned it up real well and used some Motoseal. I'd bet my bottom dollar that if I were to separate one of my rebuilt crankcases, most of the Motoseal will have squeezed out. That's the quality in these IEL/Pioneer saws.

Chris B.

Thanks Chris. One more question.

The replacement seal on the flywheel side was installed spring side up in the fan housing which would put the seal in the orientaion of a newer saw but it makes it tough to drive the seal without damaging it. Is this correct? It doesn't make any sense to me as final orientation for sealing should be good either way. I was palnning to install the seal so the backside (open side) of the seal would be on the flywheel side.
I hope that's clear enough to understand.

 

[67L36Driver]

Thanks Chris. That's a big help. I already have the flywheel side seal out (wrong size repsalacement which didn't even touch the crank).
I shall get some seals shortly and install on the HC.

The case on the flywheel side shows no gasket between the crankcase and the cover (which holds the seal) where it slip fits into the crankcase. do you put any Motoseal or anything here to seal it up better? I can't see how it will hold vacuum very long the way it is. Maybe these old saws aren't as critical as far as sealing goes.

I have a can of Permatex formula 300 brushable gasket cement I've been working on almost forever. Thin version of the #2 that came in a tube for years. Ethanol base.

Carl , then do you need to seal those holes? Epoxy?

Nothing, the seal shell covers it up.

Sounds like he's drilling from the atmosphere side of case to push the seals in. You wouldn't need to seal these holes--the seal is inboard. Just the same, I don't think I'd drill the case here. I've personally never had problems removing these seals, though I can see how a stuck one would give headaches.

Ted, you are used to standard, modern saws where you can pull the seal straight off the crank without splitting it. These Pioneers have a shoulder over the seal requiring the case to be split and the seal installed before the bearing.

Chris B.

If I had an 'L' shape driver I would maybe have gotten 'em out by driving from inside the hole. Flywheel side was a beech.


No rings today. First time 'The Greek' has let me down.

The old rings had a gap in excess of 3/32". Yikes!

 

[cbfarmall]

The replacement seal on the flywheel side was installed spring side up in the fan housing which would put the seal in the orientaion of a newer saw but it makes it tough to drive the seal without damaging it. Is this correct? It doesn't make any sense to me as final orientation for sealing should be good either way. I was palnning to install the seal so the backside (open side) of the seal would be on the flywheel side.
I hope that's clear enough to understand.

Definitely install the seal with the spring inward. To drive them without damage, I've been using the backside of socket large enough to fit snugly in the bearing counterbore. This way the socket will drive the seal straight and even. Never screwed one up yet.

Chris B.