Pioneer chainsaws

[ML12]

Based on how far I currently have it torn down, it looks like the mag side bearing comes out with the Mag housing/engine side cover. I am assuming the crank would need to come out next in order to drive out the clutch side bearing from the the mag side. Dies this sound correct?

Yes, the whole saw, both halves of the crank case, have to come apart and the crank has to be removed to get the bearings out.
If the bearings come out with the crank, great, just use a normal bearing splitter/puller combo, if not you'll need an internal puller to get them out. IIRC the mag side is more of a hassle than the PTO side.

Use heat to install the new bearings.

 

[2broke2ride]

Ok, sorry to keep asking so many dumb questions but when I search for 6203 bearings all I come up with is either 2rs which are sealed or "metal shield" bearings. Dont I want and open bearing in this application? Should I just get the 2rs bearings and pull the seals out?

 

[fossil]

Just get the sealed ones and pop the seals out. Don't get metal shielded.

The guy I buy my seals from just stocks the sealed ones and pops them out if someone wants open bearings.

 

[2broke2ride]

Thanks Tim, that's what I was thinking but wasnt sure if I was missing something.

 

[2broke2ride]

The saw is totally torn down. Had a bitch of a time with the wrist pin. Lost 2 connecting rod bearings and had to actually take apart my work bench to retrieve them from the depths. It is evident that this saw has been apart before. It appears something let go in the bottom end and actually punched holes in the case. Someone welded them up. The PTO side bearing is a metal shielded bearing which I think we have established is not correct. Both bearings are very rough so it is a good thing I decided to take it apart. The crank needs a light polish on the rod bearing journal but the rod bearings and the wrist pin bearings should live.
What is the best way to hold the connecting rod bearings in place for reassembly? Grease?
Pictures to follow shortly

 

[pioneerguy600]

Pack the needles in grease on the crank journal.

 

[2broke2ride]

Pics as promised. Everything needs cleaned up. What thickness gasket material should I use for the cylinder base?

 

[lil171]

Well, it has been a while, but I can now say I am that much closer to being done with my Pioneer P25. I just have to now do some carburetor cleaning or adjustments and see if it will do fine, and if not, I will rebuild the carburetor. The one main thing that was giving me grief was the chain. However, with some time and disassembly, trying different chains and such, with teh help of the great members of this forum, we had identified definate pitch and were on teh way of the correct DL count. Now also with the generosity of a forum member, I had received 2 chains for my saw, and as per request, I would add or remove links as needed. However late yesterday evening, I was tired but wanted to try the shorter chain on just for size to see if I could determine just how many links I needed to add. Well, to my surprise, I mounted the 68 DL chain, and it fit! I was so happy. So, now with it all back together, I am now hoping to be able to cut some small pieces of wood when I next visit my friend. So thank you again all here in this great place with your time, help, suggestions, and generosity. It has been a great ride so far, and hopefully some more to come. I will do another update when I get a chance to do some cutting and or when I figure out what I will have to do to the carburetor.

 

[OC Timber]

Guys, I picked this up a couple of weeks ago, seems to run great after cleaning it up and replacing fuel filter. It has a 24" bar on it. Did the P41 come stock with a 24" bar?

 

[p61 western]

Guys, I picked this up a couple of weeks ago, seems to run great after cleaning it up and replacing fuel filter. It has a 24" bar on it. Did the P41 come stock with a 24" bar?

My p41 Western came new with a Pioneer 24" bar. It's actually a little short of a true 24 though. Nice saw you got. They are great runners.

 

[fossil]

Interesting that the repair manual states that the full wrap P41's came with a 7 pin rim and the half wraps came with an 8 pin rim. Maybe the 24" bar vs the usual 20" bar made that happen.

 

[ML12]

The saw is totally torn down. Had a ***** of a time with the wrist pin. Lost 2 connecting rod bearings and had to actually take apart my work bench to retrieve them from the depths. It is evident that this saw has been apart before. It appears something let go in the bottom end and actually punched holes in the case. Someone welded them up. The PTO side bearing is a metal shielded bearing which I think we have established is not correct. Both bearings are very rough so it is a good thing I decided to take it apart. The crank needs a light polish on the rod bearing journal but the rod bearings and the wrist pin bearings should live.
What is the best way to hold the connecting rod bearings in place for reassembly? Grease?
Pictures to follow shortly

For the wrist pins, you can use a little heat, or there is a tool that presses them out. If you need to change the wrist pin bearing I built a nice tool:



I'll second on using grease to hold connecting rod bearings. These saws are a bit tricky to do if you have big fingers....

What thickness gasket material should I use for the cylinder base?

For a base gasket, I used card stock on mine. its pretty thin, may 0.020", just put a thin skim of motoseal on it, or that nasty red spray gasket stuff and it'll seal up ok. These saws don't have a lot of compression, so don't be disappointed when it doesn't pull over like other 100cc saws.

That saw looks pretty good, should clean up very nicely.

 

[2broke2ride]

For the wrist pins, you can use a little heat, or there is a tool that presses them out. If you need to change the wrist pin bearing I built a nice tool:
View attachment 745925


I'll second on using grease to hold connecting rod bearings. These saws are a bit tricky to do if you have big fingers....



For a base gasket, I used card stock on mine. its pretty thin, may 0.020", just put a thin skim of motoseal on it, or that nasty red spray gasket stuff and it'll seal up ok. These saws don't have a lot of compression, so don't be disappointed when it doesn't pull over like other 100cc saws.

That saw looks pretty good, should clean up very nicely.

Now the dilemma I'm having...... I have this thing pretty well totally torn down. Do I strip it and do a total restore/repaint or do I leave the original patina. What is everyone's thoughts?

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

Depends on whether ya wanna run it or just stare at it.

 

[ML12]

Now the dilemma I'm having...... I have this thing pretty well totally torn down. Do I strip it and do a total restore/repaint or do I leave the original patina. What is everyone's thoughts?

I've got one restored and one un-restored, although I suspect it was repainted once upon a time.


Its personal preference. I have some fully restored saws that I like to run, but I have others that won't ever see gas, at least until I get bored one day....

You can restore it and use it, just clean it really well, sandblast it, get a good solid primer down, color, let that dry fully (week+), and spray it with 2k clear to seal it up and make it properly impervious to gas. Then just treat it good and don't bash it around and it'll last a good long while.

 

[PogoInTheWoods]

I guess a better (and less snarky) response from me would have been, 'I suppose it depends on how much more time you want to put into it and what you ultimately want to do with it'.

You'll probably never get another chance to do a full resto on one of those, so....

 

[pioneerguy600]

I have restored and painted quite a few 600 series saws and a few RA`s, if I go all out on them they don`t ever get run again, they become full time shelf queens.

 

[2broke2ride]

So let's say hypothetically that I decide on a restore, is there an off the shelf rattle can paint that is a reasonable match to this creamy/yellow color this saw seems to be originally? I see a lot of them painted yellow but this isnt really that color.
I'm not gonna pay $35+ for custom color rattle cans.

 

[ML12]

I haven't found a good match yet in an off-the-shelf spray can, and yeah $35 is a bit too steep for a custom rattle can.
Hence why all my pioneers are painted in safety yellow..... The right color isn't quite as light as what's left on your saw and much lighter than a mcculloch. that's about all I can offer.

 

[pioneerguy600]

I have never found a rattle can color even close to Pioneer paints, all my paint jobs are custom mixes of multi component urethane applied with a HVLP gun, about $135. per mix. I have some NOS original outer body panels that I take in and have the paint mixed to match, it is surprising how much the paint fades and changes color over the years compared to a new part that has never seen daylight since boxed up at the factory.