Premium fuel with ethanol or regular non-ethanol?

[USMC615]

If it was a snake, it would have bitten you.

Go to bed 2123...Catbuster said it all. Time to get on track. Enuff said here.

 

[Rockjock]

Not doubting your words at all, I would question just how much the customers bringing in their equipment that they obviously can't diagnose or work on...exactly just how many truly are putting additives and stabilizers in their gas for pre-mix, or straight gas engines. If it's a simple, pull a carb, clean the gum out, hit it with at least carb and choke cleaner, drain it, hit it with a compressor...I simply wonder how many are bringing OPE in that has had gas or mix sitting in it since the season before, with nothing added to the fuel. Sounds like damn good business if nothing else. My stuff sure ain't got those problems and never has. Just sayin from my own equipment and experience.

Now, 2123 will have to figure out another 'drain it everytime after use' post, lol. I guess in AZ, with a sand/gravel/cactus front and back yard, ya may not be runnin your stuff like 99% of other folks do.

EDIT...Rockjock, you folks winters are a lot more brutal and much longer where you are for sure than where I am. I can certainly understand the chances of gas/ethanol gumming things up a heap more. Extreme cold for lengthy periods of time is probably much more of a factor in the equation for you folks.

Pulling a carb is not all that simple. Many have springs and linkages and require a bath in the ultrasonic cleaner, then a new carb kit, needle, needle seat, gasket float diaphragm and many need pull cords because the customer pulled it so many times they broke the cord. LOL When asked many have stated that they did use stabil, etc in the gas. I wish I had taken a photo of all the lawnmowers this spring but the yard at work is filling up right quick with snowblowers with the exact same issue. It is keeping me busy that's for sure.

 

[USMC615]

Pulling a carb is not all that simple. Many have springs and linkages and require a bath in the ultrasonic cleaner, then a new carb kit, needle, needle seat, gasket float diaphragm and many need pull cords because the customer pulled it so many times they broke the cord. LOL When asked many have stated that they did use stabil, etc in the gas. I wish I had taken a photo of all the lawnmowers this spring but the yard at work is filling up right quick with snowblowers with the exact same issue. It is keeping me busy that's for sure.

I hear ya bro...keep the business a' runnin. That's the main thing, called livelihood. Good on you.

 

[Rockjock]

Ok, I believe you when you say you find jelly in carbs. What is causing the jelly? ( What is interacting supposedly with the ethanol that makes the jelly?) And just because one group of guys working in the same shop agree on something doesn't make them correct.

The jelly seems to be the ethonol in the fuel, that or it is some by product of the separation. The gents in the back must some 60-70 years combined experience between the lot. It is not a stretch to think that if I do not have gads in something it will not go bad. Every fall I drain out the fuel in my mowers, run till dry and put them to bed for the winter. Then in the spring fresh fuel and they fire up. 15 years of doing that and 0 issues. My saws same treatment 0 issues. Seems to me there maybe something to it.

 

[1Alpha1]

The jelly seems to be the ethonol in the fuel, that or it is some by product of the separation. The gents in the back must some 60-70 years combined experience between the lot. It is not a stretch to think that if I do not have gads in something it will not go bad. Every fall I drain out the fuel in my mowers, run till dry and put them to bed for the winter. Then in the spring fresh fuel and they fire up. 15 years of doing that and 0 issues. My saws same treatment 0 issues. Seems to me there maybe something to it.

I've done what you do for well over 45 yrs. I don't use my OPE on a daily / weekly basis like some do. Because of what I've done, I've had little to no issues at all.

I used to have a Stihl FS-44 trimmer. Bought it new and sold it after about 12 yrs. of use. Not once did I have to remove the carb or do a tear-down of the engine. Sold it for $50.00 less than I paid for it. After each use, the fuel was drained out and it was then run til it died.

I too, agree that there seems to be something to it.

Should have also mentioned, the ONLY thing that I ever replaced on that trimmer, was a spark plug now and then. Not even a single gas line. Replaced the plugs cause I felt that it was time, not that they went bad on me.

 

[NWCoaster]

I've done what you do for well over 45 yrs. I don't use my OPE on a daily / weekly basis like some do. Because of what I've done, I've had little to no issues at all.

I used to have a Stihl FS-44 trimmer. Bought it new and sold it after about 12 yrs. of use. Not once did I have to remove the carb or do a tear-down of the engine. Sold it for $50.00 less than I paid for it. After each use, the fuel was drained out and it was then run til it died.

I too, agree that there seems to be something to it.

Should have also mentioned, the ONLY thing that I ever replaced on that trimmer, was a spark plug now and then. Not even a single gas line. Replaced the plugs cause I felt that it was time, not that they went bad on me.

There is something to it.... but what. I dont believe it is just the ethanol causing all these problems. I have worked in an oil refinery for the last 29 years, I see what goes into the blends. The ethanol is probably the cleanest component of the gasoline. Believe me, there are a lot of other not as clean components that go into a gasoline blend, which have a lot more heavy or waxy components in them than ethanol, that would tend to leave gummy deposits behind once it dries or emulsifies with water. ( I have never seen residue left behind from alcohol once it evaporates) . The issues being repaired on fuel systems could be caused by the other components just as easily as the ethanol, just blaming everything on ethanol without some scientific testing is inaccurate at best. I have the same results as the two posters above, I have never had a single fuel system related failure on any of my OPE using ethanol fuel with stabilizer and leaving the carb full in the last 20 years.... so I also can claim there is something to that.... But why?
Just trying to be objective. I dont buy into something just because I read it on the internets..... Heck, HR1 is the best oil out there according to that.

 

[dsell]

Just curious, you guys that are not having trouble with ethanol. What % of ethanol is in your fuel? It might be a good plan to test it now so that when things go to **** you can compare the % of ethanol. I ran ethanol for years and then something changed. I don't have a record of the ethanol % that worked for so many years to compare to what I buy now. Another thing I caught on to, just buying 1 gallon of ethanol free fuel can be a challenge. If there is only one hose on the fuel pump the you'll initially get the last fuel selected before your ethanol free selection comes out of the nozzle. You may pump a pint or quart of ethanol gas into your one gallon jug. I think that's what happened to me at the Moundridge Coop. For the record, I don't believe in or use over the counter fuel additives.

 

[bwalker]

There is something to it.... but what. I dont believe it is just the ethanol causing all these problems. I have worked in an oil refinery for the last 29 years, I see what goes into the blends. The ethanol is probably the cleanest component of the gasoline. Believe me, there are a lot of other not as clean components that go into a gasoline blend, which have a lot more heavy or waxy components in them than ethanol, that would tend to leave gummy deposits behind once it dries or emulsifies with water. ( I have never seen residue left behind from alcohol once it evaporates) . The issues being repaired on fuel systems could be caused by the other components just as easily as the ethanol, just blaming everything on ethanol without some scientific testing is inaccurate at best. I have the same results as the two posters above, I have never had a single fuel system related failure on any of my OPE using ethanol fuel with stabilizer and leaving the carb full in the last 20 years.... so I also can claim there is something to that.... But why?
Just trying to be objective. I dont buy into something just because I read it on the internets..... Heck, HR1 is the best oil out there according to that.

Ethanol is very clean when it evaporates. It's a really good solvent that attacks rubber and plastic. It also is hydrophilic and will pull water vapor right through a plastic can or tank. Once water is present the fuel deteriorates rapidly.

 

[NWCoaster]

It's all good, I respect the opinions of the members in this thread. I guess the gist of it is if you have had success with a particular way of keeping your ope happy in the fuel situation, keep doing what works for you. I will try to do some more research on the subject and see what there is for more information or testing just to satisfy my curiosity.

 

[1Alpha1]

There is something to it.... but what. I dont believe it is just the ethanol causing all these problems. I have worked in an oil refinery for the last 29 years, I see what goes into the blends. The ethanol is probably the cleanest component of the gasoline. Believe me, there are a lot of other not as clean components that go into a gasoline blend, which have a lot more heavy or waxy components in them than ethanol, that would tend to leave gummy deposits behind once it dries or emulsifies with water. ( I have never seen residue left behind from alcohol once it evaporates) . The issues being repaired on fuel systems could be caused by the other components just as easily as the ethanol, just blaming everything on ethanol without some scientific testing is inaccurate at best. I have the same results as the two posters above, I have never had a single fuel system related failure on any of my OPE using ethanol fuel with stabilizer and leaving the carb full in the last 20 years.... so I also can claim there is something to that.... But why?
Just trying to be objective. I dont buy into something just because I read it on the internets..... Heck, HR1 is the best oil out there according to that.

I think a lot of the problems people experience are from poor to no proper maintenance. I've seen some of the gas jugs others use, and they look like they were rode hard and put away wet.

And....some use fuel that's been sitting too long. I don't have a clue as to fuel shelf life, but I'm sure it isn't as long as I would like it to be. And, I'm sure that some problems are just equipment related. Small carbs with small orfices and passages. I have a couple of small dirt bikes that have small carbs. It's a battle to keep one of the jets open and clear. They run like crap until I remove the carb, pull the jet and clean it out.

 

[1Alpha1]

Just curious, you guys that are not having trouble with ethanol. What % of ethanol is in your fuel? It might be a good plan to test it now so that when things go to **** you can compare the % of ethanol. I ran ethanol for years and then something changed. I don't have a record of the ethanol % that worked for so many years to compare to what I buy now. Another thing I caught on to, just buying 1 gallon of ethanol free fuel can be a challenge. If there is only one hose on the fuel pump the you'll initially get the last fuel selected before your ethanol free selection comes out of the nozzle. You may pump a pint or quart of ethanol gas into your one gallon jug. I think that's what happened to me at the Moundridge Coop. For the record, I don't believe in or use over the counter fuel additives.

In my area, all the pumps say up to 10% ethanol.

 

[Moparmyway]

Ethanol is very clean when it evaporates. It's a really good solvent that attacks rubber and plastic. It also is hydrophilic and will pull water vapor right through a plastic can or tank. Once water is present the fuel deteriorates rapidly.

Only because I teach @ my union ........... I believe hygroscopic is more a suitable word for what ethanol does to water vapor in the atmosphere around it

IIRC, hydrophilic means it readily dissolves in both oil and water

 

[bwalker]

Only because I teach @ my union ........... I believe hygroscopic is more a suitable word for what ethanol does to water vapor in the atmosphere around it

IIRC, hydrophilic means it readily dissolves in both oil and water

Poor choice of words. Your right!

 

[bwalker]

Just be thankful we don't have methanol in our fuel. I have seen that stuff dissolve plastic gas cans.

 

[livemusic]

I'm currently using canned fuel. We don't have E-Free gas in my area. Prior to using the canned stuff, I just used the pump stuff, 87/89 octane with ethanol in it. Was using it for years and years, and not a single problem or issue.

I never leave my OPE stored with fuel in it. After use, the tank gets emptied and I start the machine back up and run it til it dies. Stihl Inc. says to do the same thing. I believe that's why I've never had any problems.

What does OPE mean?

 

[USMC615]

What does OPE mean?

...Outdoor Power Equipment.

 

[dall]

i run 90 octane ethanol free i travel about 15 miles to get it and while im around there i go to the stihl dealer and tractor supply last time i bought any it was 1.50 more than the regular ethanol gas but i dont like taking carbs apart

 

[Mark71GTX]

OP here, luckily a station just a few miles from my house is now selling premium ethanol free fuel!