Redmax two stroke oil for a reasonable price

[bwalker]

Could be. I was quite surprised that there was no actual testing of the individual product involved

To be JASO certified the oils have to be tested in standard test engines that JASO specifies. Companies can self certify if they buy those test engines. In practice most send it off to a third party.

 

[bwalker]

I don't have to agree with everything this guy writes, but this is a good start.

https://dragonfly75.com/moto/oil.html

There are a lot of errors in that.
For starters the guy misrepresentation what flash point is a measure of.

 

[diver64]

They are both semi synthetic oils. Yes there is a performance difference, red armor being slightly superior in my experience using it. No I wouldn't turn my nose up at Rex max/ husqy oil. It's a good oil.

The tests are done by independent labs, using standardized test methods. Which JASO clearly outlines.
the API is run mostly the same way as per testings, the API dies have a monitoring and enforcement program, but I do not think there is any law (s) backing it.
You can find more information here.
https://www.api.org/products-and-services/engine-oil
Really one is no different then the other. mfg that did the testing and submitted for the "certification" will usually be quick to give up the test results and lab information where the testing was done. It signals they have quality oil, and have done the testing to back it(the oil) meets the minimum requirements set forth by a recognized industry standard.

Thanks for the link. I have some reading time having just whacked my shin with an axe splitting and got 10 stitches so am hobbling around for a few days

 

[diver64]

They are both semi synthetic oils. Yes there is a performance difference, red armor being slightly superior in my experience using it. No I wouldn't turn my nose up at Rex max/ husqy oil. It's a good oil.

The tests are done by independent labs, using standardized test methods. Which JASO clearly outlines.
the API is run mostly the same way as per testings, the API dies have a monitoring and enforcement program, but I do not think there is any law (s) backing it.
You can find more information here.
https://www.api.org/products-and-services/engine-oil
Really one is no different then the other. mfg that did the testing and submitted for the "certification" will usually be quick to give up the test results and lab information where the testing was done. It signals they have quality oil, and have done the testing to back it(the oil) meets the minimum requirements set forth by a recognized industry standard.

So a company pays a 3rd party Independent lab to test their oil according to standards set by JASO. The company sends those results to JASO to get the FD or whatever they can now put on their bottles. Ok, thanks. I was under the impression JASO did it themselves for some reason.
Do you know what labs? I'm assuming that everyone uses just a couple that specializes in this type of testing.

 

[sean donato]

So a company pays a 3rd party Independent lab to test their oil according to standards set by JASO. The company sends those results to JASO to get the FD or whatever they can now put on their bottles. Ok, thanks. I was under the impression JASO did it themselves for some reason.
Do you know what labs? I'm assuming that everyone uses just a couple that specializes in this type of testing.

They can test in house,provided they have the test engine (s). I'm under the Impression few mfg actually have them. Making third party testing the way to go, also (should) take out any biased results. JASO is just an organization that set forth the standards, and test processes.
Link to JASO site.
https://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/jaso_e.htm
I'm not in the know as to whom does the third party testing. Honestly haven't cared enough to look into it. Basically if it's made the list the testing had been done.

 

[epo]

So a company pays a 3rd party Independent lab to test their oil according to standards set by JASO. The company sends those results to JASO to get the FD or whatever they can now put on their bottles. Ok, thanks. I was under the impression JASO did it themselves for some reason.
Do you know what labs? I'm assuming that everyone uses just a couple that specializes in this type of testing.

Examples of laboratories mentioned in JASO documents.

 

[OM617YOTA]

Is that the same Idemitsu that makes automotive fluids as well? Makes sense that once a company has their own testing equipment, they'd offer testing services to others as well.

Edit: Yes, looks like it is.

 

[epo]

Is that the same Idemitsu that makes automotive fluids as well? Makes sense that once a company has their own testing equipment, they'd offer testing services to others as well.

Edit: Yes, looks like it is.

If anyone is interested, it looks like in America such tests are carried out by the Southwest Research Institute (San Antonio, TX), for example.

https://www.swri.org/outboard-marine-small-engine-lubricant-testing

 

[Hman1024]

Amazon isn't the only online seller. A quick googling found this:

https://russopower.com/products/echo-6550050-red-armor-2-cycle-oil-50-gallon-mix-50-1-1-gallon

Free shipping over $100, so buy two gallons and you're there. No affiliation, never heard of these guys, do your due diligence, if you get robbed it's your money not mine.

I purchased two gallons of red armor from Russo, like stated free shipping showed up in two days well packaged by UPS. Smooth transaction, quick ship, free shipping over $100, all day long beats Amazon in this instance.

 

[OM617YOTA]

I purchased two gallons of red armor from Russo, like stated free shipping showed up in two days well packaged by UPS. Smooth transaction, quick ship, free shipping over $100, all day long beats Amazon in this instance.

Good to hear, thanks for being the guinea pig.

 

[North by Northwest]

Unreal.

How long will a gallon of oil last? ( As in how many gallons of fuel, and how many saw tanks full?

All depends on the mix ratio & fuel & engine tuning . One season for a Commercial Arborist , less for a Logger who fells & bucks. Perhaps a season or two for a weekend warrior cutting up blowdowns or firewood !

 

[Lionsfan]

I purchased two gallons of red armor from Russo, like stated free shipping showed up in two days well packaged by UPS. Smooth transaction, quick ship, free shipping over $100, all day long beats Amazon in this instance.

Good to hear, thanks for being the guinea pig.

I bought oil from them on last year's Black Friday sale. Free shipping, price was tough to beat.

 

[sean donato]

All depends on the mix ratio & fuel & engine tuning . One season for a Commercial Arborist , less for a Logger who fells & bucks. Perhaps a season or two for a weekend warrior cutting up blowdowns or firewood !

That sums it up pretty well, possibly a gallon will last longer for the average firewood hack. Usually I'm around a gallon a year between the saws and other equipment. This year I haven't done much tree work, or helped my logging buddy much. (Been focusing on building the shop.) I'm only ~half a gallon deep so far this year. Still have another 10-12 cord to process before winter and another fence row to clear out this fall. Doubt that I'll use up the rest of this gallon till the years out.

 

[diver64]

All depends on the mix ratio & fuel & engine tuning . One season for a Commercial Arborist , less for a Logger who fells & bucks. Perhaps a season or two for a weekend warrior cutting up blowdowns or firewood !

13 oz bottle of Red MaxPro does 5 gal of fuel at 50:1 so a gallon would be roughly 50 gallons.

 

[diver64]

Is that the same Idemitsu that makes automotive fluids as well? Makes sense that once a company has their own testing equipment, they'd offer testing services to others as well.

Edit: Yes, looks like it is.

Seems like the same company but they are sure proud of their oil

 

[bwalker]

In addition to the results from the test bench, you need to provide a completed form with the physical and chemical properties of the oil, including the result of the infrared absorption spectral analysis.

View attachment 1197337

JASO can also carry out market surveys of classified oils present on the market and, if non-compliance is found, ask the applicant for explanations.

In the case of Japan (and perhaps some other countries as well), JASO may also take legal action based on existing national laws.

This is true for a significant portion of the products marketed. E.g., in Europe, the conformity assessment and 'CE' marking system that I am familiar with is also predominantly based on self-assessment. Obviously there are mechanisms for checking compliance by authorities.

The situation is similar with the engine submissions to the EPA discussed on this forum. This, too, is a system based on self-assessment with mechanisms for checking by the authority and the existing possibility of penalties.

The difference, of course, is that oil labeling/rating is voluntary and, for example, the Japanese organization has little ability to act outside Japan. CE and EPA, on the other hand, are mandatory with sanctions enshrined in national law.

Physical properties are not an ingredient list.

 

[bwalker]

Good read. not specific to saw use, but pertinent information non the less.

It's has some decent info, but it also has alot of really bad info. Reader beware.

 

[epo]

Physical properties are not an ingredient list.

They are not, but you still have to include the results of elemental analysis for a certain number of elements. And also include a chart of the infrared spectroscopy performed, which allows you to identify the substances/functional groups in the oil.

 

[diver64]

Physical properties are not an ingredient list.

So the massive Japanese logging industry will impose sanctions. That is not much of a threat.

 

[North by Northwest]

I did a video after about 25 gallons of fuel usage on my 500 using Dominator. I needed some ammo to fire at people who claimed that using more oil than 50:1 will build carbon, or that they use a different oil because Dominator creates too much carbon. Dominator leaves the exhaust flange shiny silver and there’s a little bit of a hard glossy black coating inside the muffler

I initially questioned Dominator usage within a saw back then Kevin . This was due to my experience with numerous buddies complaining of exhaust power valve carbon deposit on liquid cooled trail sleds . At the time i was running Amsoil Interceptor in my Polaris RMK 850 Assault with no problems . After your Dominator trial i did a quick analysis on an older aircooled sled my Polaris RXL 650 Race sled with Dominator . Bone stock tuning provided excellent results . Afterwards i trialed it sucessfully on a few of my Commercial grade saws 5105 & 346 xp & 357 xp . Again it passed with flying colors . Even later in my ported 7900 that you are well aware of . I just recently switched to Red Armor in all my air cooled saws & bikes & sleds . Only my RMK runs Interceptor still , since its oil injected & a few Homeowner saws on Saber . In summary usually no one oil works in all 2T engines efficiently , to many varibles obviously . I was biased initially , believing that most saws did not run hot enough with sufficient load , to utilize Dominators blend effectively . I was wrong brother !