Sharpening - my personal opinion and experience (not an expert)

[Philbert]

I think it is really unnecessary to file a slope on the raker. As long as it has the right depth, it will cut the same

The cutters rock backwards when they contact the tree, forcing the depth gauges into the wood. If they hit at the sharp corner, they will dig in. if the depth gauges are rounded or smooth, they will slide over the wood instead.

The point at which they contact the wood may change depending on how warm the chain is, the type of wood, cutting pressure, etc. so a smooth, rounded profile is best.

Philbert

 

[GrizG]

The cutters rock backwards when they contact the tree, forcing the depth gauges into the wood. If they hit at the sharp corner, they will dig in. if the depth gauges are rounded or smooth, they will slide over the wood instead.

The point at which they contact the wood may change depending on how warm the chain is, the type of wood, cutting pressure, etc. so a smooth, rounded profile is best.

Philbert

I was catching up on this tread and about to reply to Hermio but your response covers my thoughts well. I had gained that understanding from my Game of Logging trainer and it was validated by a couple of professionals with whom I am associated.

P.S. Other professionals, seems to be mostly those cutting softwoods, don't feel it matters. As about 95% of what I cut are hardwoods it matters to me!

 

[user 122190]

Does anyone else hit their file with a shot of brake cleaner when it gets clogged with filings and oil? Just started to do this and it helps get the file cutting right again.

I'm going to now.

I gots a surplus of Quick Start, same thing, mostly....

 

[Philbert]

I use a stainless steel 'scratch brush' for tasks like this, as well as for removing surface rust when cleaning chains, and bunch of other tasks. The ones I get are about the size of a toothbrush, and were less than a buck a piece from a local welding supply store (I have seen similar ones sell for $4 or more at home centers). The fine, but stiff bristles are good at cleaning, but not so coarse that they would damage the file with light brushing.


(Internet photo)

Philbert

 

[Philbert]

The cutters rock backwards when they contact the tree, forcing the depth gauges into the wood. If they hit at the sharp corner, they will dig in. if the depth gauges are rounded or smooth, they will slide over the wood instead.

The point at which they contact the wood may change depending on how warm the chain is, the type of wood, cutting pressure, etc. so a smooth, rounded profile is best.

Philbert

Here is an illustration:



Philbert

 

[bwalker]

I haven't read this entire thread but am curious what folks think of the Stihl 2-in-1 sharpeners. I've been using them for most of my saws and find them to work pretty well.

I've never used the Stihl 2in1, but did use the Pferd version. I wasn't happy with the results at all. YMMV.

 

[KASH]

I wipe the file the file on the leg of my wool cutting pants.I use a guide every 5 or so sharpeings just to put me back on line.I rotate the file every few strokes.
Kash

 

[SawTrash]

Great thread. Hopefully my little tip will be helpful.

I use the simple file holders shown below for doing the cutters, sometimes just a bareView attachment 945892View attachment 945892 file if the gullets need a bit more scooped out, and flat files for rakers.

The bottle contains mineral turpentine and the files get dipped in if they get clogged or grubby then banged on a bit of wood to get rid of any debris.
The files get rotated in the holder a few degrees now and then.

Occasionally the turpentine gets renewed, but that could be when it's a year or two old

 

[joe.snow]

I agree that the 2 in 1 guide or the file holders will always get a better cutting top tooth than hand filing does. I clean out the gullet with a hand file then use the 2 in 1 to get a good sharp top tooth. I clean out the gullet again every 3 times i sharpen.

 

[fields_mj]

For what its worth, most of the discussion in this thread is splitting hairs if you're cutting firewood. Having a very even chain does make the saw run and cut smoother, but if you're only running a saw 10 to 15 days a year, it really doesn't make enough difference to worry about so long as you're reasonably close. If you run a saw almost every day, or if you're milling, then it can make a difference. Otherwise, get it sharp, try to keep everything even, keep an eye on your rakers, and get back to work.

 

[weimedog]

Love it, my dilemma as well. On the one hand I like the idea of custom grinds to fiddle with ways to cut faster, a derivative of saw modding. On the other ...... time and the more narrow focused performance envelope of the results. A few years back WHEN I actually had more time and I was cutting mostly hard maple and very little ash, matching the rakers to each saw was...time consuming and fun. Maximized cut speed with these really aggressive chain grinds.

Then I retired and now have NO time as I have to actually work. One of the "turning points" was the need to harvest ash tree's and with those along with a few other "stringy" species like hickory; bore cutting became the priority over speed. My old chains I had time consumingly adjusted to make my saws look faster blocking and cookie cutting with friends became .....useless as they like to grab & kick back on the plunge cuts. Back to the drawing board. Also the onslaught of west coast influence with the big Douglass furs and pines along with big bars and all that came more sophisticated square grinds.

SO I tried some of that, a friend has built a system "mimicking" some of the more established techniques. I was fortunately able to acquire a few. They are smooth cutting and fast, a definite improvement over what I had done before in the blocking and normal cutting with one exception. Bore / Plunge cutting. Same as my earlier attempts to improve speed with more aggressive chains, they to grab and it's hard to feed them in the longer plunge cuts . So I went back to stock Stihl RS for my preferred chain with LGX as a plan B. And now discovered stock c83/85 Husqvarna chain and find it the best blend of cut speed and plunge cutting I've used to this point. Did a video and got instant and intense blow back from the square grinders who swear up and down their particular brew is better in all scenario's. (although not sure I've seen any plunge cut in eastern hard wood with the evangelists of the square grind philosophy, always cookies ) That's were I am now. Waiting to see if that's just smoke or are there actually recipes that work better in my world than the well engineered Husqvarna c83 and can be aquired for either the same price and availability to justify their existence....or justify buying and developing a way to replicate them.

( I use new loops when I'm felling and take the worn ones and sharpen with a Pferd 2 in 1 for the rest of the work, especially sectioning / bucking )

 

[Philbert]

‘Nobody plays golf with just one club’. OK to have different chains for different cutting situations.

Philbert

 

[GrizG]

‘Nobody plays golf with just one club’. OK to have different chains for different cutting situations.

Philbert

Same justification for a lot of different guns...

 

[GrizG]

For what its worth, most of the discussion in this thread is splitting hairs if you're cutting firewood. Having a very even chain does make the saw run and cut smoother, but if you're only running a saw 10 to 15 days a year, it really doesn't make enough difference to worry about so long as you're reasonably close. If you run a saw almost every day, or if you're milling, then it can make a difference. Otherwise, get it sharp, try to keep everything even, keep an eye on your rakers, and get back to work.

It's like every other vocation/avocation with which I've been involved over the years... get a bunch of fine woodworkers, tool guys, gun guys, hunters, bicycle enthusiasts, long distance bicycle tourists, programmers, project managers, professors/researchers, car, motorcycle, or saw guys together and it's the same kind of discussion. There are some folks who operate at the bleeding edge of the technology, some who never seem to get even the basics, and a broad middle that manage to get things done.

My training was Game of Logging. One time a trained and certified arborist and I gave an introductory saw course to land trust volunteers... Sure we agreed on many things but there were distinct differences at times. As my co-trainer put it to the students, it doesn't mean one of us is wrong, they are different trades with different training. We both found the differences interesting and looked for what was comparable to what we do in what the other did. Our saw sharpening techniques were a bit different too but we both got to the same place. Those kinds of collaborations are where you stretch and enhance understanding. In comparison, working in a vacuum can leave you doing things poorly but perhaps consistently for many years.

I vote for splitting hairs and seeing how they might apply to what I do!

 

[Philbert]

Same justification for a lot of different guns...

Or, even different loads for each gun.

Philbert

 

[fields_mj]

It's like every other vocation/avocation with which I've been involved over the years... get a bunch of fine woodworkers, tool guys, gun guys, hunters, bicycle enthusiasts, long distance bicycle tourists, programmers, project managers, professors/researchers, car, motorcycle, or saw guys together and it's the same kind of discussion. There are some folks who operate at the bleeding edge of the technology, some who never seem to get even the basics, and a broad middle that manage to get things done.

My training was Game of Logging. One time a trained and certified arborist and I gave an introductory saw course to land trust volunteers... Sure we agreed on many things but there were distinct differences at times. As my co-trainer put it to the students, it doesn't mean one of us is wrong, they are different trades with different training. We both found the differences interesting and looked for what was comparable to what we do in what the other did. Our saw sharpening techniques were a bit different too but we both got to the same place. Those kinds of collaborations are where you stretch and enhance understanding. In comparison, working in a vacuum can leave you doing things poorly but perhaps consistently for many years.

I vote for splitting hairs and seeing how they might apply to what I do!

Totally agree. Just didn't want a newbie getting all discouraged, thinking that sharpening his or her own chain was going to be an impossible task that's best left to the "pros". It takes a little while to get the hang of it, but it's easy to do, and MUCH better than taking the chain to the local hack and his chain grinder. If the chain is going to get burned up with a chain grinder, at least you should save yourself the $6 bucks a pop (or what ever the going rate is) and get your own grinder.

 

[puzlrock]

I learned to file chains from an old guy that started out in the woods with axe and cross cut saw. The chainsaw was one of the worlds great inventions to him, and he embraced it. I learned from him and have been using it for over 60 years. A serious sawyer needs to take the time to learn the correct way to sharpen a saw, the commercial sharpeners just eat up your chain.

 

[SawTrash]

I learned to file chains from an old guy that started out in the woods with axe and cross cut saw. The chainsaw was one of the worlds great inventions to him, and he embraced it. I learned from him and have been using it for over 60 years. A serious sawyer needs to take the time to learn the correct way to sharpen a saw, the commercial sharpeners just eat up your chain.

So, what method/s did you learn from the old guy ?

 

[bwalker]

I learned to file chains from an old guy that started out in the woods with axe and cross cut saw. The chainsaw was one of the worlds great inventions to him, and he embraced it. I learned from him and have been using it for over 60 years. A serious sawyer needs to take the time to learn the correct way to sharpen a saw, the commercial sharpeners just eat up your chain.

If your talking about chain sharpening services you are absolutely correct. They mostly put kids are the shop lacky on jobs like that.
I learned from a old logger how to round file a chain and it took some time. Latter I got a grinder and with an idea of what a tooth should look like I got good results. Keep in mind it wasn't as simple as plugging in angles off a chain box. Far from it actually.

 

[puzlrock]

So, what method/s did you learn from the old guy ?

He used a round file, chain on the bar, and he showed me how to file down into the throat of the chain while keeping the pitch right, have always done it that way. Chains last a long time.