Sharpening - my personal opinion and experience (not an expert)

[KASH]

I use a lot of brake cleaner as well.Do not use it on old SkiDoo hoods I was using it on the hood of A 72 SkiDoo Olympique and all of a sudden the plastic started to crack on its own a shame because the hood was perfect just a little dull.
Kash
Also do not breathe the fumes if it is burning really bad bad news your lungs are shot in a second.

 

[tired]

I use a lot of brake cleaner as well.Do not use it on old SkiDoo hoods I was using it on the hood of A 72 SkiDoo Olympique and all of a sudden the plastic started to crack on its own a shame because the hood was perfect just a little dull.
Kash
Also do not breathe the fumes if it is burning really bad bad news your lungs are shot in a second.

I know folks that actually use the non-chlorinated as a solvent when making a certain type of "extract", rather than butane. Doesn't sound particularly healthy, but the stuff is extremely volatile and leaves absolutely no residue when evaporated. The hood/cab's not fiberglass on those?

 

[KASH]

No it is not fiberglass I have quite a few old sleds a half dozen SkiDoo Elans I buy all the 1971 Elan hoods because that was the only year that Elans had fiberglass hoods.They went to plastic and it is rare to see one not all patched up.
kash

 

[Husky77]

.30-.40" you're going to need a 500cc bike saw

At that setting he may aa well grind the rakers off haha

 

[Hermio]

I recently purchased the Pferd version, like it way it filed the teeth but I think it cuts the rakers down to much.

I think it does take them down a bit more than 0.025" But with my MS500i, and the MS441C before that, on a 20" bar, I had enough power to drive it anyway. Full throttle is best. It gets grabby at part throttle.

 

[bwalker]

I know guys will do about anything in order to avoid learning how to free hand file properly, but all these gadgets are really a waste of money.

 

[Hermio]

I know guys will do about anything in order to avoid learning how to free hand file properly, but all these gadgets are really a waste of money.

Not at all. Though some may become really good at hand filing, most will not do as accurate and consistent a job as on a precision jig. And very few will get the job done as fast by hand as on a Pferd 2 in 1. I can sharpen a 20" chain in the field in about 3 minutes, and I get a faster cutting chain than factory original. It takes 3-5 strokes per tooth unless I hit a rock or steel.

 

[sundance]

I know guys will do about anything in order to avoid learning how to free hand file properly, but all these gadgets are really a waste of money.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Doesn't make it right for all of us.

 

[bwalker]

Not at all. Though some may become really good at hand filing, most will not do as accurate and consistent a job as on a precision jig. And very few will get the job done as fast by hand as on a Pferd 2 in 1. I can sharpen a 20" chain in the field in about 3 minutes, and I get a faster cutting chain than factory original. It takes 3-5 strokes per tooth unless I hit a rock or steel.

Most of these devices don't offer much more precision than hand filing. The exception would be the grandberg jig, but it's painfully slow.
I have used the Pferd 2 in 1. It makes your rakers to low for use in hardwood and the results can easily be bested with no guide at all.

 

[bwalker]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. Doesn't make it right for all of us.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

 

[sundance]

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

Not all of us drink water.....

 

[rogue60]

I've had to teach a lot of young men how to hand file over the years.
Now some can pick it relatively easy and some can't no matter what, it might be something to do with hands not connected to the brain.
I've also had the opportunity to see/view a lot of professional cutters hand file sharpen their saws.
Now again some are good a natural at it and some are pathetic at it no matter how many years they have been doing it.
So basically NO not everyone will become good at hand filing that's fact.

The latest trend on youbtubes is to recommend everyone throw away their filing guides ya don't need em lol probably one of the dumbest things I've ever heard knowing the mess a lot would get there chains into. I hand file free hand no guides hand but I'm not silly enough to tell everyone to throw way what works for them and only do as I do, some even struggle with guides imagine letting em loose free hand.
Best way to teach someone how to free hand file is be looking over their shoulder you can actually gauge how competent they are and whether or not it's a complete waste of time.

 

[Philbert]

I have occasionally said that filing chains is a lot like ***: there is a lot of bad information out there, and a lot of guys assume that they are better than they actually are.

Still, enough guys are ‘good enough’, that a lot of firewood gets cut, and there are 8 billion people out there.

Filing guides help achieve consistent results, but they don’t work by themselves. The user still needs to know what’s going on, and what the desired results are.

Philbert

 

[bwalker]

I have occasionally said that filing chains is a lot like ***: there is a lot of bad information out there, and a lot of guys assume that they are better than they actually are.

Still, enough guys are ‘good enough’, that a lot of firewood gets cut, and there are 8 billion people out there.

Filing guides help achieve consistent results, but they don’t work by themselves. The user still needs to know what’s going on, and what the desired results are.

Philbert

Some of the gadgets work great like the Grandberg jig and Ok like the Oregon/Husky roller guides. Some don't work worth a damn like the Pferd 2n1.
For the guys that can't learn to hand file a grandberg will net the best results albeit slow. And more importantly it will show you what a proper tooth looks like so when your sick of farting around with gadgets you will know what a good hand filed tooth should look like.

 

[Okie]

Right. File guides that index off the top of the cutter will alway give you a consistent top plate bevel angle, regardless of the brand of chain or how worn the cutters are.
View attachment 945251



Consider having different chains, sharpened for different types of cutting. Nobody plays golf with just one club!

Philbert

I've found that when using these type Oregon file guides that most generally that the rakers need to be filed down BEFORE filing with this guide especially when the chains teeth are worn back to about 1/2 or further. If the rakers are not set at the PROPER DEPTH FIRST the raker is too high and since this type guide is using the top of the tooth and the raker height to hold the file at the proper height on the tooth the file will ride too high and not get the proper top edge angle on the tooth and as the tooth wears back further and the rakers not set first the file will be blunt dulling the tooth instead of sharpening the tooth.
To get the idea just try sharpening a chain with this Oregon type guide with the teeth worn back 1/2 or more without doing the rakers depth first and then test in wood and you will get the idea fast.

Also using/installing the wrong size file for that type guide is not a good thing.

 

[trains]

I've had to teach a lot of young men how to hand file over the years.
Now some can pick it relatively easy and some can't no matter what, it might be something to do with hands not connected to the brain.
I've also had the opportunity to see/view a lot of professional cutters hand file sharpen their saws.
Now again some are good a natural at it and some are pathetic at it no matter how many years they have been doing it.
So basically NO not everyone will become good at hand filing that's fact.

The latest trend on youbtubes is to recommend everyone throw away their filing guides ya don't need em lol probably one of the dumbest things I've ever heard knowing the mess a lot would get there chains into. I hand file free hand no guides hand but I'm not silly enough to tell everyone to throw way what works for them and only do as I do, some even struggle with guides imagine letting em loose free hand.
Best way to teach someone how to free hand file is be looking over their shoulder you can actually gauge how competent they are and whether or not it's a complete waste of time.

I like guides as after some time cutting, my hands are not able to hold the file in the manner that I would like for good free hand filing, so guides it is.
if you can cut for hrs, and then free hand, then more power to ya, and go for it, for me, i like the guides, yes I can free hand when fresh, but after hrs cutting, i cant free hand the way I can when my arms and hands are fresh.

Love the grandberg file n joint for setting up a chain, or custom profile, found over time, certain combinations of guides on certain chains give good results for what i am cutting, some guides, not so much.
Again, match the chain to the timber and the chain/ bar length to the power head, and have at it.

Were all cutting different types of wood, different rainfall, and different rockwell hardness or balsa softness timbers, so there will be some variance with all of them.

find what works for your timber and enjoy it and being able to file to what gives you the best results.

edited to add.
it helps to add what type of timber your cutting, what power head, chain / bar combo when commenting as there are so many different types that one may not work for the other, and why, we all find that factory grind of a chain is at best, a starting point, and with some changes, can be made to cut far better for what we are each cutting, for those with soft woods, its a far different direction compared to those cutting hard woods, again add in the different types of timber, dead, green, rainfall, and region for what may work and what may not.

 

[link]

Most of these devices don't offer much more precision than hand filing. The exception would be the grandberg jig, but it's painfully slow.
I have used the Pferd 2 in 1. It makes your rakers to low for use in hardwood and the results can easily be bested with no guide at all.

You need proper tools to make it worth while, then again if you have proper tools it does make an improvement.

 

[Okie]

rogue60 wrote:
Best way to teach someone how to free hand file is be looking over their shoulder you can actually gauge how competent they are and whether or not it's a complete waste of time.

Yep, some of them grasshoppers are just a waste of time trying to teach them anything.

I've seen some people that are highly educated by the books but have no common sense and have to consult You tube from one day to the next on how to tie their shoe laces, these types usually use velcro for shoe laces. (but they have a college degree and that makes all the difference now days in their mind)

 

[link]

rogue60 wrote:
Best way to teach someone how to free hand file is be looking over their shoulder you can actually gauge how competent they are and whether or not it's a complete waste of time.

Yep, some of them grasshoppers are just a waste of time trying to teach them anything.

I've seen some people that are highly educated by the books but have no common sense and have to consult You tube from one day to the next on how to tie their shoe laces, these types usually use velcro for shoe laces. (but they have a college degree and that makes all the difference now days in their mind)

Using a chain grinder is an education too, you really need to practice to get it right.

 

[puzlrock]

rogue60 wrote:
Best way to teach someone how to free hand file is be looking over their shoulder you can actually gauge how competent they are and whether or not it's a complete waste of time.

Yep, some of them grasshoppers are just a waste of time trying to teach them anything.

I've seen some people that are highly educated by the books but have no common sense and have to consult You tube from one day to the next on how to tie their shoe laces, these types usually use velcro for shoe laces. (but they have a college degree and that makes all the difference now days in their mind)

Applies to so many things nowdays