Sharpening - my personal opinion and experience (not an expert)

[elmostump]

I've never used the Stihl 2in1, but did use the Pferd version. I wasn't happy with the results at all. YMMV.

I recently purchased the Pferd version, like it way it filed the teeth but I think it cuts the rakers down to much.

 

[bwalker]

I recently purchased the Pferd version, like it way it filed the teeth but I think it cuts the rakers down to much.

The person I had did the same thing for a chain used in hardwood.

 

[fields_mj]

I've been hand filing for a long time. Dad gave me his old Arnold Precision Sharpener several years ago. It's similar to the Timberline. He had worn out the carbide cutter that he used, and couldn't find any more, so he set it on a shelf. When he gave it to me, I looked into having some cutters made (Timberline didn't exist yet), but never went any further because I can hand file .325 chain pretty easily. When the timberline came out, I looked at it over an over again. Last year, I finally ordered a couple of cutters from them to see if it would fit my dad's Arnold, and they did. They needed to be about 1/2" longer on the shank, but I use them with a cordless drill so I can make it work. I played around with them a little bit last season, and then started using it a little more this year. Took it with me this weekend down to Kentucky to help with clean up. I'm now officially in love with this sharpener. My original plan was to see if I liked it enough to buy a Timberline. I'm pretty sure there's one currently under the Christmas tree It does have a learning curve, but I picked it up pretty quick. Now its really easy to get my chains sharp, and really fast. The angles are all consistent, and the cutters are all the same length. Love it, love it, love it. Can't wait to give the Timberline a shot and see how it compares. Hope to go back down to KY again next week. Would be a great chance to put the new unit through the ringer.

On a slightly different note, I was on my way down the hill yesterday morning to start working. On the way by, I asked one of the other guys if his saws needed any attention. I had noticed that NOBODY else was really doing any maintenance to their saws during the day other than topping them off with fuel and oil. He mentioned that his 361 was starting to throw some dust, so I sharpened it for him. In the mean time, I let him use my 036 with an 18" bar, standard spline 9 pin rim, .325 full chisel chain (freshly sharpened) with the rakers taken down around 0.040". I warned him that it pulled pretty good, so keep hold of it. When I brought his saw back to him, he said "MAN, THIS THING RIPPS!!! Just lay it on the tree and VROOM, you're through the cut!" I just smiled and replied, "Yeah, it's not quite stock."

 

[Okie294life]

I run Husky 52/72/394, and mostly use full chisel chains. I've most used the pocket Husky roller file, and it does seem to be pretty good, but the rollers do wear down, and if ya don't replace em, I think it could affect sharpening. I also purchased the Grandberg file n guide, which mounts to the bar, but because the user (me) can mess the settings with up/down/angle, it's a good unit, but still may be problematic. I even had a bench grinder, but, eventually sold it. I'd rather go with simple and being in the field and needing to sharpen, I should be able to with around file. Getting to my point, I recently purchased the Stihl file guide, that comes with a file. That, and in combination with a recent thread where the author mentioned how he carves out the gullet to the top of the link, then manually sharpens the top tooth, and then takes rakers to .30 - .40, I think I may have come to a good place. I think that a person can file and get off the track because the file isn't properly grabbing material off the upper tooth, and in combo with improper rakers, I think that's basically the main issue most people have. That, and angles that are too low won't cut properly ie, a 20 degree won't cut as good as a 25 or 30.

The bottom line to me now is that the Stihl guide forces the user to keep that file up because the guide lays on the chain top. That means the file is always ripping that top tooth, and, the gullet isn't straying on a slight angle down toward the bar-and maybe the gullet isn't as important as making 100% sure that top tooth is razor like. When I get a new chain, that tip is always like a razor, grabbing my finger skin. If it's not that, game over.

And in summary, the idea of grabbing a saw and using it, and never having to hardly fiddle with the chain, is nonsense. Every time you use it, the potential for damage exists. There are other thoughts obviously around this topic, like making sure you're not hitting dirt, making sure you avoid dead wood centers with all kinds of dirt, possibly even hacking off highly rough bark, etc. And per rakers, I'm not advocating going way down, but it's probably an easily overlooked issue. For now, I'm very happy with the cheap hand tool, and that obviously hinges on having a good file. Both are simple and cheap and easily used.

When you say stihl guide are you talking about the round file and guide kit or the 2n1? I’ve got one of the latter and I take it over anything I own to sharpen a chain.

 

[Dangerous]

Get some cheap chalk and run the file through the chalk first, keeps the file clean.

I use cans of brake cleaner to Un gunk my blade along with tooth picks. Un gunks most places the chain lube packs in the gunk leaves nothing behind . Using the kitchen sink is not an option if you have a significant other. A plastic container with a lid and fresh motor oil is a great way to clean the chain let it soak overnight shake the container I was surprised at what was left behind…

 

[Wow]

Right. File guides that index off the top of the cutter will alway give you a consistent top plate bevel angle, regardless of the brand of chain or how worn the cutters are.
View attachment 945251



Consider having different chains, sharpened for different types of cutting. Nobody plays golf with just one club!

Philbert

I bought one of those. What I didn't like is the file being clamped in won't let me rotate the file easily. I made my own file guide and kept it a secret because I thought I might patent it. It WAS the cats meow EXCEPT the nylon parts kept breaking and NOW, I'm back to my basic angle iron double ended angle guide. I've used them for years and they are handy. Except , Now im using Aluminum because it's a soft metal and don't dull the chain. It does not get hit by a file and works well. Learning how to file my Left hand cutters were More problematic because I'm Left handed and file THOSE with my right hand. But AFTER a lot of years both hands finally work. Ha. Ha. Good day.

 

[sundance]

I bought one of those. What I didn't like is the file being clamped in won't let me rotate the file easily. I made my own file guide and kept it a secret because I thought I might patent it. It WAS the cats meow EXCEPT the nylon parts kept breaking and NOW, I'm back to my basic angle iron double ended angle guide. I've used them for years and they are handy. Except , Now im using Aluminum because it's a soft metal and don't dull the chain. It does not get hit by a file and works well. Learning how to file my Left hand cutters were More problematic because I'm Left handed and file THOSE with my right hand. But AFTER a lot of years both hands finally work. Ha. Ha. Good day.

@Wow, you keep dropping hints about filing "gadgets" you've invented and might patent. Ever going to share or will they die with you?

 

[Cedar Row]

I have been using the pferd file guides for some time now, they work well for me. Recently got a MS261 with .325 chain and a Stihl 2 in one file guide. Other saws I have are 3/8th. The Stihl file guide specifically for .325 chain requires a slight twist to insert the file, and doesn't file the middle of the gullet and cuts into the bottom of the tooth, like the file is too big. This doesn't happen with the Pferd on 3/8th chain. Stihl file is 3/16. Perhaps this is because of the way new chain is sharpened when manufactured, and it isn't worn enough. Any ideas?

 

[GrizG]

I have been using the pferd file guides for some time now, they work well for me. Recently got a MS261 with .325 chain and a Stihl 2 in one file guide. Other saws I have are 3/8th. The Stihl file guide specifically for .325 chain requires a slight twist to insert the file, and doesn't file the middle of the gullet and cuts into the bottom of the tooth, like the file is too big. This doesn't happen with the Pferd on 3/8th chain. Stihl file is 3/16. Perhaps this is because of the way new chain is sharpened when manufactured, and it isn't worn enough. Any ideas?

That sounds "normal" to me... When I file new chains for the first time the file has to be slipped into the gullet slightly askew as it catches on the tip. It is also common for the gullet to not be filed evenly on the first filing though the cutting edge of it and the tip are sharp. Usually by the second filing the file fits just fine and the entire gullet is filed evenly.

 

[Cedar Row]

That sounds "normal" to me... When I file new chains for the first time the file has to be slipped into the gullet slightly askew as it catches on the tip. It is also common for the gullet to not be filed evenly on the first filing though the cutting edge of it and the tip are sharp. Usually by the second filing the file fits just fine and the entire gullet is filed evenly.

Thanks, that is what I thought must be the problem. I cut a large dead red oak and the new chain I was running seemed to not be cutting as good as when I started, so I had sharpened a new chain.

 

[Fireman Bill]

I started out hand filing...then tried just about every gizmo out there...and now back to hand filing. I use a grinding wheel on badly damaged chain to even things out , then hand file, or file with a guide to fine tune it. When my 3/8 chain teeth are more than half gone I go from 7/32 to 13/64 files. My files were dulling quickly and I realized it was because the file was hitting the chain links as well as the cutters. Also, I rarely measure the rakers and just go by feel. We may cut hard oak and soft paulownia in the same day...if I were just cutting fir all day I could prob dial it in. Sometimes I use a rag to mop off the chain oil so it doesn't get in the files...also, I learned to tell when a file is toast so I don't waist my time...

I also use the files like you do. 7/32 the just past halfway i use the 13/64…….

 

[Fireman Bill]

Get some cheap chalk and run the file through the chalk first, keeps the file clean.

I’m going to try this…..thanks…

 

[Fireman Bill]

I think it is really unnecessary to file a slope on the raker. As long as it has the right depth, it will cut the same. The wood does not need to ride up the slope; it cannot get down in that gap. Possibly it may make a minor difference when plunge cutting. But I stopped sloping the rakers for good when I started using the Pferd 2 in 1 sharpening system, which is the same as the Stihl 2 in 1. Cutting performance is better than with a new chain. So I leave the rakers flat topped.

I find a little more vibration is had when the drags are not rounded. Especially as they get shorter….

 

[Fireman Bill]

Great thread. Hopefully my little tip will be helpful.

I use the simple file holders shown below for doing the cutters, sometimes just a bareView attachment 945892View attachment 945892 file if the gullets need a bit more scooped out, and flat files for rakers.

The bottle contains mineral turpentine and the files get dipped in if they get clogged or grubby then banged on a bit of wood to get rid of any debris.
The files get rotated in the holder a few degrees now and then.

Occasionally the turpentine gets renewed, but that could be when it's a year or two oldView attachment 945898

Great idea when home to sharpen. Ill try that sometime… thanks…

 

[Sierra_rider]

I didn't read the whole thread, but my method to filing/raker depth...

My 3 chain pitches are 3/8LP, 3/8, and .404. All of the picco chain gets round filed with a 5/32" file. My 3/8 and 404 chain either gets round filed with a 7/32" file or square filed with a triangle file, depending on intended use. My milling chain is usually the only stuff that I throw on the grinder.

My brush cutting chains/multipurpose chains get round filed, as it's easy to do in the field. My falling chain is square-filed. On the square, I clean out the gullets with a round file...I even do this on a brand new chain with the factory grind. There is a noticeable improvement by getting rid of the gullet on a factory grind.

I use the WCS depth gauges on all of them, they're pricey for a little piece of metal, but fool proof to get the desired depth. Depth is dependent on the chain. Most of mine is filed to .025" depth, some of my loops of falling chain are set to .035, but they're shorter loops of chain(28") on ballsy powerheads(ported 372 and 044/046 hybrids.)

 

[KASH]

What is a WCS gauge?
Kash

 

[Sierra_rider]

What is a WCS gauge?
Kash

These:

https://westcoastsaw.com/products/depth-plate

 

[KASH]

Thanks for the detailed info.
Kash

 

[chipper1]

These:

https://westcoastsaw.com/products/depth-plate

Interesting it shows a fixed depth on 3 settings, then the 4th has various depths.
Since it's a progressive gauge, depending on the height/length of the cutter the actual setting could vary from their projected depth.
I wonder if that number is the initial setting when a chain is new.
Anyway, I would choose this over a fixed setting or a 2 in 1 to set my rakers.
I like the Oregon versions myself, but I see these guys have one for 3/8lp, I'll be snagging up one of those to try out.

 

[tired]

Does anyone else hit their file with a shot of brake cleaner when it gets clogged with filings and oil? Just started to do this and it helps get the file cutting right again.

On my "bucket list" - as in a 5 gallon bucket of non-chlorinated for $70 at Canadian Tire. Never tried it on a file, but what I use for cleaning starter and clutch covers etc, anything that's all gummed up. Been buying it by the spray can but that translates into about $100 a gallon. That stuff and a toothbrush is indispensable IMO.