split & crush death while blocking down

[BCMA]

Years ago I heard of a climber that was killed when the large section of tree he was removing and tied into barber chaired ripping out his guts and rib cage. He made the mistake of not facing the section he was removing and only made a back-cut. This accident and death was preventable with proper training and experience. High-level tree work is not for the untrained or inexperienced lawn or landscape guy.

 

[Plasmech]

Years ago I heard of a climber that was killed when the large section of tree he was removing and tied into barber chaired ripping out his guts and rib cage. He made the mistake of not facing the section he was removing and only made a back-cut. This accident and death was preventable with proper training and experience. High-level tree work is not for the untrained or inexperienced lawn or landscape guy.

Why do I keep hearing about guys not making face cuts? As green as I am, I would never even consider not making a face cut. It's...retarded.

 

[nicholasthorn]

lombardy poplar uk

we have had this senerao working on ladder with harness & lanyard forgetting back cut or v we where rushing guys on rope pulling a 39-ft top splits down trunk & bends my 13-8 mtr ladder top rungs i didnt flinch an inch neverless could have been nasty always do a adquatre backcut or v first no expections
nicholas
2 x ms 280
2 x ms 460
2 x ms 660
2 x shindaiwa 269-t
1 x dcs 5000
1 x dcs7900

 

[Fireaxman]

Why do I keep hearing about guys not making face cuts? As green as I am, I would never even consider not making a face cut. It's...retarded.

Sometimes if I have a very limited LZ I want a SMALL top or limb to fall streight down the trunk like a spear rather than falling perpendicular to the trunk. Sometimes I want to "Swing" a limb to one side or another. In my retarded condition I have the delusion that I can accomplish this safely by double wrapping my steel core flipline around the trunk below the cut or using some of the other tips offered in this thread. The holding wood normally cut with a back cut will swing the wood to a side a little, or hold it closer to the trunk as it falls.

But, admitting I am a retard, I DID learn to climb before I carried a chain saw up a tree (good advice Moss) and I learned to adjust my flipline at an elevation of 2 feet.

Climbing is dangerous. Chain saws are dangerous. The increase in danger when you try to learn both skills at the same time is exponential, not arithmetic progression.

 

[Plasmech]

Sometimes if I have a very limited LZ I want a SMALL top or limb to fall streight down the trunk like a spear rather than falling perpendicular to the trunk. Sometimes I want to "Swing" a limb to one side or another. In my retarded condition I have the delusion that I can accomplish this safely by double wrapping my steel core flipline around the trunk below the cut or using some of the other tips offered in this thread. The holding wood normally cut with a back cut will swing the wood to a side a little, or hold it closer to the trunk as it falls.

But, admitting I am a retard, I DID learn to climb before I carried a chain saw up a tree (good advice Moss) and I learned to adjust my flipline at an elevation of 2 feet.

Climbing is dangerous. Chain saws are dangerous. The increase in danger when you try to learn both skills at the same time is exponential, not arithmetic progression.

You missed the point and spammed the reply...

 

[Blakesmaster]

You missed the point and spammed the reply...

What he was getting at, Plas, is that a face cut isn't always a good thing and thinking that it is strict necessity is retarded. Like he said, if you want a branch to swing under you instead of snapping directly off or if you want to arrow cut so it flies straight down like a spear. Or what about when you tip tie a branch. Or you want to walk a branch one way or another. There's a whole list of different circumstances where different cuts in different wood offer different results. Blanket statements like the one you made are retarded and you would know this if you learned this type of work from the ground up. No matter how many questions you ask and how many responses you get you will never have this job figured out until you DO IT. And it's best to do it under the supervision of a trained professional ON THE JOB
...or you die.

 

[Nailsbeats]

I like that last part Blakes. Really drives it home.

 

[randyg]

Here's how to prevent being crushed: Attach both ends of your lanyard to a common, center point; forming a "circle" around the tree which you are not in. If the tree splits, or if you get some type of fiber tear, the tree will be exerting it's force on the closed circle you formed with your lanyard, and you will be outside the circle. You may be in a bad spot, but this method should prevent serious injury.

And IFthe tree exerts ample force to break your closed circle, then you are no longer tied in to tree?????

 

[randyg]

And IFthe tree exerts ample force to break your closed circle, then you are no longer tied in to tree?????

Prevents serious injury untill you hit the ground perhaps?

 

[fishercat]

if you are that worried about it.

go to Sherril tree and look at his.type it into search.

Friction Saver PRUSIK

 

[randyg]

Today a pro warned (and scared the *hell* out of me) about something that can and does happen from time to time. You're on spikes, on a safety lanyard, making a block-down cut. The tree splits down the middle for whatever reason...stress you didn't think was there being relieved I would thing. It splits wide, forms a bug "Y". You are immediately killed, yes killed, by the tree taking all the slack out of your lanyard and crushing your internal organs against your main saddle strap. I know this sounds gory but there is no other way to describe it. Has anyone ever heard of this happening? Is there a way to survive it somehow, some sort of different lanyard setup that will let out some slack automatically in an emergency? Serious stuff....scary man...really scared me.

First step is to learn how to predict this situation and then use proper cutting technique to prevent split from happening. I will not begin and hope no one else attempts to explain those techniques here in print. You should have that shown in real life. I will share one alternative method of tying in however. NEVER rely solely on that flip line/lanyard. In addition, you should be tied in with your climbing line to a nearby tree, or co-dom leader. If you get injured or run into mean squirrel or bees or hornets, handy to have that climbing line already tied in and ready to descend on.

When all I have is the very spar I am piecing down, I have the ring type friction saver around that spar near my knees or feet with climbing line through rings making choke hold on tree. If any possibility of a split exists, just un-clip flip line from one side of saddle and clip both ends of flip line to the same ring on saddle. You can't get squished, and if that "circle" breaks, you are still tied in with climbing line, ready to descend to mother earth and clean out pants.

PLEASE have this properly demonstrated before trying out on your own?

 

[RedlineIt]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireaxman
Sometimes if I have a very limited LZ I want a SMALL top or limb to fall streight down the trunk like a spear rather than falling perpendicular to the trunk. Sometimes I want to "Swing" a limb to one side or another. In my retarded condition I have the delusion that I can accomplish this safely by double wrapping my steel core flipline around the trunk below the cut or using some of the other tips offered in this thread. The holding wood normally cut with a back cut will swing the wood to a side a little, or hold it closer to the trunk as it falls.

But, admitting I am a retard, I DID learn to climb before I carried a chain saw up a tree (good advice Moss) and I learned to adjust my flipline at an elevation of 2 feet.

Climbing is dangerous. Chain saws are dangerous. The increase in danger when you try to learn both skills at the same time is exponential, not arithmetic progression.

Plasmech said:

You missed the point and spammed the reply...

No Plasmech, you were given first-rate advice. You were even told how you should learn to adjust your lanyard before you gain altitude, if you read carefully.

This IS Arbo 101, Plasmech, but you insist on telling your instructors to bug off. Now, I agree, that is not trolling, that is just being an idiot.


RedlineIt

 

[Plasmech]

Plasmech said:

No Plasmech, you were given first-rate advice. You were even told how you should learn to adjust your lanyard before you gain altitude, if you read carefully.

This IS Arbo 101, Plasmech, but you insist on telling your instructors to bug off. Now, I agree, that is not trolling, that is just being an idiot.


RedlineIt

I respect pro's who act like pro's. A message like this makes me think you are not one of them, calling a student an idiot...come on. If you don't like me, how about just not replying to me?

 

[Plasmech]

First step is to learn how to predict this situation and then use proper cutting technique to prevent split from happening. I will not begin and hope no one else attempts to explain those techniques here in print. You should have that shown in real life. I will share one alternative method of tying in however. NEVER rely solely on that flip line/lanyard. In addition, you should be tied in with your climbing line to a nearby tree, or co-dom leader. If you get injured or run into mean squirrel or bees or hornets, handy to have that climbing line already tied in and ready to descend on.

When all I have is the very spar I am piecing down, I have the ring type friction saver around that spar near my knees or feet with climbing line through rings making choke hold on tree. If any possibility of a split exists, just un-clip flip line from one side of saddle and clip both ends of flip line to the same ring on saddle. You can't get squished, and if that "circle" breaks, you are still tied in with climbing line, ready to descend to mother earth and clean out pants.

PLEASE have this properly demonstrated before trying out on your own?

Thanks for the solid advice! Also thanks for not calling me an idiot.

Fisher, thanks also.

 

[ozzy42]

Why do I keep hearing about guys not making face cuts? As green as I am, I would never even consider not making a face cut. It's...retarded.

I think maybe you are lableing 2 different scenerios

I will sometimes cut a limb w/out face cut,not to save time,but if i need that limb to swing back,[or peel] a little bit before dropping,or to spear a mostly vertical branch.But not with a flip line around it.These are not usually real big heavy limbs.
Very different then ,no face cut ,on a BIG spar you are tied in to.The latter said, being an accident waiting to happen.
Notice i said "BIGspar"? If i am chunking down a small spar i will not always make a back cut. The deciding factor to me personally is this;If it is a log i could ,or would, put on my shoulder easily,let's say8-12in dia 12-24in long,I will usually just cut straight thru it and shove it off.
Hope this helps you some.
I also hope you are being honest[and i"ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you are]
about having found some body with real exp. to help you thru your learning curve.There is a lot to learn.

STAY SAFE

 

[davej]

When I see photos or videos of you pros chunking big spars I know I wouldn't want to be the person hanging up there. It seems to me there would be several very :censored: dangerous possibilities.

 

[Slvrmple72]

In response to the original post by Plasmech I have had Norway Maple split in halves, thirds and even quarters several feet down the spar I was chunking down. Apart from gaffing out nothing too serious but I have had close calls with hinge failure. If the trunk is already cracked I will put a chain around it like a girdle or even a ratchet strap. Take smaller bites it puts less dynamic forces on the tree and like the other guys said stay out of the loop! You should definitely get a copy of Beranek's Fundamentals of Tree Work. Learning the many and varied ways to cut hinges for upper canopy removal and dropping trees will be invaluable. Are you looking to get into treework fulltime?