Splitter Build...I-Beam size??

[Preston]

you're measurements are accurate.... but only for a 8x35 beam.
a 8x31 is the only beam that is a true square 8" x 8" beam all of the heavier 8" beams have a larger section depth and flange width, and the lighter ones have a smaller section depth and flange width.
a 8x31 does have a .285-.288 web thickness, or roughly 9/32"

i wouldnt go any lighter than a 8x35, im personally running a 8x40 on my splitter, i work with a structural engineer and he ran stress analysis on the beam and how i wanted the wedge and cylinder anchor setup, and at 60 ton (double my output) between the top of my 14" tall wedge and my cylinder anchor (roughy 6' apart) the beam deflects only .016 (not even noticable), thats double my rated output of the cylinder and with no extra support on the beam. hopefully ill get to try it out soon, waiting for the generator to be rebuilt for my engine, finaly made my pump adaptor this weekend, then all i have to do is paint it, bring it to have the hoses fitted, and get some oil...:msp_w00t:
so really im just trying to say dont cheap out on the beam, its the "backbone" of the splitter or you'll be doing this:bang:espically since yu can get it "free"

Nathon........my General Steel schedule book has the 8x35 at 8 1/8 web height at 5/16 thickness. The flange is 8 inches in width at 1/2 thickness. My book has the 8X31 at a true 8 X 8. Whatever thats worth.

 

[nathon918]

Nathon........my General Steel schedule book has the 8x35 at 8 1/8 web height at 5/16 thickness. The flange is 8 inches in width at 1/2 thickness. My book has the 8X31 at a true 8 X 8. Whatever thats worth.

which is what i wrote...
youre post i commented on is this... "I got my steel schedule book and it says the 8x31, which means 31 lbs per foot, has a flange thickness of 7/16 with the web being 5/16. If that helps you a little"
i was just letting you know thats those measurements are for an 8x35, not an 8x31

 

[Preston]

which is what i wrote...
youre post i commented on is this... "I got my steel schedule book and it says the 8x31, which means 31 lbs per foot, has a flange thickness of 7/16 with the web being 5/16. If that helps you a little"
i was just letting you know thats those measurements are for an 8x35, not an 8x31

Not a big deal, but what I posted is what my book has for 8X31. Anyway I was just trying to help the OP, not start a debate. My book says you're mistaken.

 

[nathon918]

Not a big deal, but what I posted is what my book has for 8X31. Anyway I was just trying to help the OP, not start a debate. My book says you're mistaken.

Welcome to the Turner Steel Home Page
look at this link, this is from my steel supplier, these are the ASTM standards for Wide flange beams... and im not debating, these are the standards.
what you wrote as measurements for an 8x31, you also wrote the same measurements for an 8x35 in your last post to me.
i just didnt want to confuse the OP in what the measurements are, the 8x31 and 8x35 are next to eachother on the list, so i know its easy to look at one but read the measurements for the other, or it may be possible that book is just out of date or published before the standards were put into place? but if so that would have to be a reallyyyy old book
i just wanted to let you know what the standards are, because i know that i like to have accurate information, and im sure the OP does too which is why he's asking these questions :cool2:

 

[Preston]

The numbers you have and what I have are fractional differences. I said the 8X31 was 5/16 at the web. The 8X35 was 5/16 at the web. I is just a fraction thicker by the decimal system. Your supplier has it as a 32th difference. Pretty close. The 8X31 is 8 inches high at the flange, the 8X35 is 8 1/8. Same thing you have.

The flange of the 35 is 1/2 inch think. I didn't see yours had it listed. The 31 is 7/16 think flange.

I think part of is is my book, and it is about 14 years old, has in inch fractions. Your supplier has it in decimal. That seem to never work out right on the number.

Still the two systems, my book and your supplier are just fractionally different. But enough to matter 4 lbs per foot.:smile2:

 

[Mich4x4]

Thanks for all the info guys. This really helps. You guys have a ton of knowledge and experience... just trying to tap into that.

So.. Last questions... As I said, I can get any beam that I want for free (Nice to have friends in the steel business!!!). I was thinking 8 foot in length. Is 8 foot enough? Now is there any reason that I should not just go with an W8x40 or W10x49 (10x10) beam according to this site.....American Wide Flange Beams - W Beam ? Would either of these sizes be ideal for my intended purpose? Want it to last, but don't want it to be ridiculously overkill. Do not want to have problems with twist and bending (provided I design it right)

Again.. Thank you. Good info in this thread.
Jeff

 

[chaikwa]

I was thinking if you are moving that material by hand, you should be called, Big John, Big Bad John. :msp_w00t:

You must be as old as I am if you remember THAT song!

So.. Last questions... As I said, I can get any beam that I want for free (Nice to have friends in the steel business!!!). I was thinking 8 foot in length. Is 8 foot enough? Now is there any reason that I should not just go with an W8x40 or W10x49 (10x10) beam according to this site.....American Wide Flange Beams - W Beam ? Would either of these sizes be ideal for my intended purpose? Want it to last, but don't want it to be ridiculously overkill. Do not want to have problems with twist and bending (provided I design it right)

If it were me and I was getting it for free, I'd go with the 10X49, just because 'what will do a lot, will do a little'. With a beam that size you wouldn't have to worry about reinforcing or gusseting. But I tend to over-build things too!

I don't know how long the pieces you are intending to split are going to be, but mine is set up for a 32" piece, (33" opening between the wedge and pushplate), and ten feet is just about what I needed. If you're only concerned with 16" pieces, then 8 feet of beam might be okay. Just allow yourself plenty of room for mounting stuff like the wedge and cylinder mounts. They take up a surprising amount of beamage!

Can you get me a friend in the steel business please?

 

[Mich4x4]

Thanks Chaikwa. A friend in the steel business is a good friend to have!! I am torn between the 10x49 and 8x40. Part of me thinks I will be over building it with the 10x49 but hey, that is my style!! ha ha ... Decisions,decisions... I hope 8 foot is enough. The guy is doing me a favor and I really only want to take what I can use. If I end up not using 2 feet of the beam I will be left with a 80-100lb piece of scrap. I am mostly splitting firewood for my wood burning stove and a wall tent stove for deer camp. Nothing big (length) maybe 15-20". I would like to have the ability to split stuff a bit bigger but nothing as big as 32".

I will let you guys know what I decide on.
Thanks for the advice!!!

Jeff

 

[Preston]

If the piece you're getting is coming off a drop, chances somebody else has already paid for it. Still, a 2 foot 100 lb drop makes a mighty fine anvil. I used to bring home as much of left over on a job as I could. After 12 years of accumulation the wife pitched a fit. I sold the majority of it so I have very little left. Somebody else paid for every piece I had.

 

[triptester]

If the steel is free consider using two 2x6x 1/4" wall rectangular tube with a 5/8" x8 wide plate on top for a standard slide or weld the wedge and cylinder rear anchor between the two rectangles.

Attached is a link for a Wallenstein proccessor that uses the same beam setup as their splitters. Pages 26 and 37 show their adjustable 4-way wedge system.
http://www.embmfg.com/File.aspx?id=70a11ecd-cac5-4cb0-93ec-68f0e050106c&display=full

 

[nathon918]

Thanks Chaikwa. A friend in the steel business is a good friend to have!! I am torn between the 10x49 and 8x40. Part of me thinks I will be over building it with the 10x49 but hey, that is my style!! ha ha ... Decisions,decisions... I hope 8 foot is enough. The guy is doing me a favor and I really only want to take what I can use. If I end up not using 2 feet of the beam I will be left with a 80-100lb piece of scrap. I am mostly splitting firewood for my wood burning stove and a wall tent stove for deer camp. Nothing big (length) maybe 15-20". I would like to have the ability to split stuff a bit bigger but nothing as big as 32".

I will let you guys know what I decide on.
Thanks for the advice!!!

Jeff

8ft is perfect for a 24" cylinder, i have a 8x40 x 8ft, 24 inch cylinder, 11"longx 14" tall wedge, 8" long cylinder anchor, it will take a 26" piece of wood, and i still have about 10" of beam left...
id be careful with a 10x49, the flange and web thickness' are smaller than a 8x40, which would be more like to twist the beam or bend the flanges with the 2 inches of extra leverage on the flanges ...

a 10x49 is stronger than a 8x40 when being used for its original purpose (a beam to span a gap)
but the way a splitter applies forces to the beam makes it more likely to twist/bend.

if you cut the web out and slots in the flanges and drop the wedge through the beam, it will apply forces more uniformly to the beam, and not just to the top flange, and do a similar thing for the cylinder anchor
if you want something stronger than a 8x40, get the 8x48, its about the same weight as a 10x49 but alot stronger...

 

[Mich4x4]

Nathon918 do you have any pics of your splitter build? you seem like a man that knows what he is doing.. Post some pics or link your build. I need more ideas. Spending hours on this site daily to get all the info I can.

Jeff

 

[nathon918]

Nathon918 do you have any pics of your splitter build? you seem like a man that knows what he is doing.. Post some pics or link your build. I need more ideas. Spending hours on this site daily to get all the info I can.

Jeff

http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/209036.htm
this is old i need to update it, im just wraping it up FINALLY, im just waiting for the generator for the engine to get back from being converted to 12 volt, get the paint ordered (hopefully) friday or monday, then paint it, get hoses fitted, and split the 15 or so cords i have sitting here...
been working on it on and off for around a year and a half, ill get "new" pics up tomorrow

 

[Mich4x4]

http://www.arboristsite.com/firewood-heating-wood-burning-equipment/209036.htm
this is old i need to update it, im just wraping it up FINALLY, im just waiting for the generator for the engine to get back from being converted to 12 volt, get the paint ordered (hopefully) friday or monday, then paint it, get hoses fitted, and split the 15 or so cords i have sitting here...
been working on it on and off for around a year and a half, ill get "new" pics up tomorrow

I like it... Very nice.. I may copy your build if you don't mind. Looks like something I could build. My buddy has an old Wisconsin on his splitter and it runs like a top. No recoil. Wrap the rope and pull!! I am going to bookmark your build for future reference. Thanks! Nice Splitter. Where did you get your cylinder?

 

[nathon918]

I like it... Very nice.. I may copy your build if you don't mind. Looks like something I could build. My buddy has an old Wisconsin on his splitter and it runs like a top. No recoil. Wrap the rope and pull!! I am going to bookmark your build for future reference. Thanks! Nice Splitter. Where did you get your cylinder?

the cylinder came from surplus center, its taken so long because every part on it is made in usa with the exception of some of the steel is canadian... and the parts arent cheap. yeah my wisconsin is a two cylinder, its either electric start or it has a hand crank, luckily mine has the starter:msp_thumbup:

 

[joelaycheck]

I used an 8X35 (flange .495, web .310) for my splitter build, because I had it. I would go with a 8X48, (flange thickness .685, web .400)
And I would also copy this guy's build:
Homemade 30 ton Log splitter with log lift and adjustable 4-way blade - YouTube

 

[norbert77]

Well, you can just guess, or you can get technical and use a beam calculation chart. Here's a link:|
American Wide Flange Beams - W Beam

And here's something that was sent to me explaining how to USE that chart:

Here are the basics of finding a beam.

I take the force in pounds you want to deliver times the height of your splitting wedge. So for your 5" cylinder x 3000 psi gives you approx 30 tons so 60000 lbs. Say you build a 12" tall wedge.

60000 x 12" = 720000 in lbs <-- This is the max moment (torque) you will place on the beam.

Divide this number by 21600, this is the max tensile stress we want to put on the beam. It is basically a 1.5 safety factor on an A36 beam.

720000 / 21600 = 33.3 in^3 This is the section modulus that you have to have greater than to assure your beam is strong enough to resist the moment (torque) you could put on it.

Now you need to find a chart that lists the section modulus for W-beams. Here is one:

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/am...ms-d_1319.html

The section modulus is labeled "W" in this chart. ASIC labels it "S" if you look it up in the back sections of a machinery's handbook for example.

Look through the chart (I printed the pages out) and go hunting for your beam. The chart I linked to does not have the flange thickness listed. You can get the dimensional info from a steel supplier stocklist Ryerson - Server Error

For example my splitter has a 5" cylinder 3000 psi system pressure and a 12" tall wedge. My beam is a W8 x 48 -- 8.5 H x 8.110 w x .685 flange thick. The section modulus in the x-x direction is 43.3 so I am good.

A word of caution: be careful of tall skinny beams! They will show strong enough but they will twist!! When designing steel structures, there are additional calculations done to be sure that the beam does not twist under load and whether supports are needed to prevent this. Most log splitters use 1 beam (ie no buddies to support from) so keep your beam shape pretty square. I wouldn't get any narrower top flange than 6".

This is a conservative approach. Some could argue to use half the height of the wedge or the pin height of the cylinder mount instead of the entire height of the wedge. This will give you a smaller needed number to beat but your splitter may have more spring to it when pushing it to its limits.

You should be able to plate the top, bottom and both ends of the beam you have and get something that will work. Otherwise print out a chart grab a tape and start hunting.

Old thread rehash, good info on the I-beam calculator. If one wanted to use square or rectangular tubing, how would that get calculated?