Tcia & Isa

[Dadatwins]

I used my free year for the trees are good site and got a few calls for service. I am in my paid year now and have received no calls yet this year with customers referencing that site. I will write off the 150.00 as a tax deduction towards advertising. I will probably not renew it again. I don't understand why the main ISA site list CA for free, yet the treesaregood site charges. I did complain and was told about the benefits of additional exposure, and the low cost blah, blah ,blah. I get more referals from my local extension office, that uses the main ISA site as a reference point. I have no intention of dropping the CA, cost more to get it back, I can write off the $125.00 and a few trips a year to the conferences and classes are good learning experience.

 

[Dadatwins]

I had no idea the Trees are Good site has been doing for over a year.

How did you find out about it over a year ago?

Info was sent from MAC-ISA office.

 

[treeseer]

Info was sent from MAC-ISA office.

Hey Dan maybe time to redo the math--add chapter membership so you can learn about stuff like the listing...:biggrinbounce2:

Dada I got a call yesterday from an extension referral too. Websites and local folks look like the way to go; the intl listing will be dominated by the big company employees, none of whom pay with their own money to get on there.

 

[Ekka]

What's this all about?

http://www.georgiaarborist.org/index.htm

What you have to think is what is the average Joe going to search? What is he going to type into that search bar on google? Does he know what an arborist is? What ISA or treesaregood is?

Here they would type in tree lopping brisbane and if you wanted to be politically correct and have a site that said Certified Arborist Brisbane you'd get no enquiries.

 

[treeseer]

What's this all about?

http://www.georgiaarborist.org/index.htm .

eric that is the state arborists org; their listings are free to members which is only right.

if someone searches "georgia arborist" they may find it. "arborist' is a common word here; we are a Little beyone "lopper"

the gaa seems pretty active; some members worked to put on a volunteer workday that was a good experience.

I'd like to see a state org here in nc; maybe next year if there is an active arborist as state director.:help:

 

[treeseer]

treesaregood listing

I just got listed. I did not show before because i did not list separate services. Every CA should do this!

Right now they are not charging, and there are no definite plans to. If they hear from members that charging $150/year is a BAD idea, that is bound to change. If no one says anything...umpkin2:

 

[BonsaiJedi]

The two biggest areas I would like to see our two organizations focus on (that they currently are not):

1. Public awareness of our profession. The national association of realtors is running ads on radio and tv that just talk about why its important to hire a professional to sell your house. I would love to see tcia or isa doing similar ads telling homeowners why it is important to get pros for their trees. I can't tell you how many of my friends ask me what an arborist is! That's terrible. No wonder it is so easy for the typical "fly by night"-ers to find work.

2. Third party evaluations of marketing claims made by companies selling into our industry. Too many folks believe EPA labeling is proof of efficacy. In fact the EPA only evaluates the environmental and health aspects of the products for approval, not whether or not it actually works. There are all sorts of products labeled for disease and insect control with absolutely no peer reviewed scientific data behind it but how would the practicing arborist ever know? Most assume the target organism is on the label, must work. As a guy selling products to arborists I get calls all the time from tree guys who tried a product to treat something only to find it didn't work despite being labeled for it. They look bad, the tree care profession looks bad, and most importantly, our patient, the tree, did not get the help we sought. In the medical world the AMA is a non-gov't industry organization that puts a stamp of approval on devices and drugs seperate from FDA approval. I'd like to see us demand the same standards.

I like the passion displayed in this thread. Shows the !

 

[treeseer]

Day two and no call back from the ISA.

Maybe I should call again. No time today though, I've got trees to look at!

dan if you want to have a philosophical harangue you'll wait a long time. if you want to get listed call x 240 and you will receive polite and efficient help.

no time for more--i gotta go look at trees, and I'm getting paid for it! :censored:

 

[Ekka]

Heck, if you can get free listings, ISA GAA etc get to it man.

Treeseer,

The media continually reinforce, in print, radio and TV the terminolgy "tree lopper". For change to take place ISAAC needs to lobby the media council of Australia.

I have tried but it's harder than convincing you to cut a tree down that's hazardous.

 

[treeseer]

I have tried but it's harder than convincing you to cut a tree down that's hazardous.

You're a hoot eric.:jester:

'hazardous' means having an unacceptable risk level, and there are many other ways to lower risk as you know. Removal being the last resort.

 

[Ekka]

Spent some time with a customer who showed me pics of the expensive underpinning that went on in his house.

they took pics of fine gum tree roots near the house and the house subsided.

Cost the customer a lot of money to underpin the house and the builder had no hesitation at all in condemning the neighbours gum tree.

Trees gone now, client threatened litigation for the $10k+ underpinning.

In that instance a stump is safest.

There's more to hazards than what is wrong with the tree, it can also be what the tree is doing by simply being there.

 

[Bermie]

why did I join ISA, TCIA?

Whew what a read!!!
I joined ISA last year and TCIA just last month...why????

I live in the middle of the Atlantic ocean, no climbing comps, no seminars, no chapter GTG's, membership in professional organizations is a lifeline to those of us on the fringes. I look forward to getting the magazines, I can't download them off the net with my dialup...having something to read and refer to is invaluable. Any discount on books and materials is great, can't get them here so have to order them from away.
Yes, some material does not apply, parochial US issues for example, but reading around subjects, learning what others are doing all adds to the greater experience.

However, on certification I do agree with Eric, the UK, Australia and New Zealand are better served by National Certification, by standard setting across the board, by requiring minimum PRACTICAL certification to get insured as tree workers.

When researching which certifications to offer here, the UK based NPTC/City & Guilds was the winner. it is quality controlled, constantly reviewed and updated ANNUALLY by some of the best practicing arborists in the UK.
There will always be those who have a moan at 'jobs for the boys' with the network of assessors and verifiers, but in the end it is a minimum standard that can be relied on. If you can't DO the work you don't get a ticket.

Almost completely opposite to the US issues, however, if you ONLY do your NPTC tickets and then set yourself up as a tree surgeon, you are missing a big chunk of theoretical knowledge as theory is part of the underpinning knowledge but not in great depth...so there are ALWAYS two sides to learning, practical application and theory, finding the balance is key.

I will probably take the ISA exam at some point, in my opinion a range of certification is good, I think the problems come when one relies solely on one organization's credentials, especially if that credential is lop sided towards theoretical or applied knowledge.
It seems to me that an ISA certified arborist should have to take the tree climber specialist as a prerequisite....if equal access due to disability or some other such is not feasable, then the CA designation should have a rider of some sort.

We have NO regulations here for who can do what to trees, by my offering certificated training and assessment at least those who choose to take it are making themselves safer and better informed.

 

[treeseer]

It seems to me that an ISA certified arborist should have to take the tree climber specialist as a prerequisite....if equal access due to disability or some other such is not feasable, then the CA designation should have a rider of some sort. :

Hey Fiona I think this makes sense. It would prove practical experience and qualification.

Dan since CA covers some risk and safety issues I see no problem with contracts requiing one. But I would much rather see ANSI compliance required, and staff qualified to enforce that!

O and eric if a builder can condemn a neighbor's tree you truly do live in Oz! Who did he call, the wizard or the tin man or toto?

 

[clearance]

It seems to me that an ISA certified arborist should have to take the tree climber specialist as a prerequisite....if equal access due to disability or some other such is not feasable, then the CA designation should have a rider of some sort.

This is good, I agree. How about "working arborist" and "consulting arborist". Now Treeseer, are you ever going to do something about what I have asked you in the recent past, and that is why is B.C. Hydro in the ISA? Seeing as pretty near ever tree that is climbed for them is climbed with spurs. Or are you going to carry on, talking the talk but not walking the walk? The ISA just wants money, bottom line, spurs on trims, cardinal sin and all, no? Pathetic. Maybe you will do something about it, it would suprise me, but at least answer me.

 

[Ekka]

O and eric if a builder can condemn a neighbor's tree you truly do live in Oz! Who did he call, the wizard or the tin man or toto?

Gees Guy, you really need to get your head out of Uncle Sam's azz more often and see a bigger picture.:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[treeseer]

Gees Guy, you really need to get your head out of Uncle Sam's azz more often and see a bigger picture.:hmm3grin2orange:

Great idea, eric. Meantime, where and how in the world can a builder condemn a neighbor's tree?

Would you want your property condemned by some random hack working next door?

o and cleance, 1. the company is not a member, individuals are, and 2. I am one member with no more power than the other 19,999. If you want to wage jihad against spiking hypocrites then try closer to home with the isa-pnw chapter maybe, or go to your province utilities commission.

 

[Ekka]

Great idea, eric. Meantime, where and how in the world can a builder condemn a neighbor's tree?

Ahh, you are such a good sport. I have to poke and provoke you to get you to ask the magic question.

However, rather than lay it on the table so you dont have to think it's much better when you discover things for yourself, that's also the way adult learning takes place.

So, think about. How can a builder condemn a neighbours tree.

Let me know what you find out, it's history where I am.

I'll give you a hint. Look for building standards pertaining to trees nearby and not nearby to houses. :biggrinbounce2:

 

[treeseer]

rather than lay it on the table so you dont have to think it's much better when you discover things for yourself, ...Look for building standards pertaining to trees nearby and not nearby to houses. :biggrinbounce2:

We have some case law on that here too. There are building standards and there are tree standards and property rights both ways, may the best case and advocate win.

The trees often lose when their advcates don't present as strong a case as the arborphobes. Old news.

 

[Ekka]

Oh, old news now that you had it spelt out huh. :monkey:

Tell me, what standards, if any, are there regarding the style of foundation dependant on trees in your neck of the woods?

And what if the neighbour since the house being built has allowed a large tree to grow nearby?

You can argue all you want for the tree but when there's engineering standards showing point blank that trees within certain distances pose threats to subsidence then it's a pretty shut case.

In some cases even significant protected trees have been cut down due to these rules. And I suppose if you were so instant to keep your tree (as some neighbours do) you'd be more than happy to part with the costs of upkeeping the houses that it affects.

 

[treeseer]

It's some weird quirk of british law or the culture of building-worship that has brought this whole subsidence thing to the arborphobic bugaboo it has become. We have similar soils in places, but no fanaticarborcide based on subsidence here that I know of.

you can argue all you want for building standards but there are tree standards too. Root pruning in cases where encroachment is successfully argued is a simpler solution than folks think, speading of bugaboos...