Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
bugaboos, I like that. 
Did you know that 50% of houses in Melbourne alone are structural cracked.
Big bugaboos.
Did you know that 50% of houses in Melbourne alone are structural cracked.
Big bugaboos.
Tcia & Isa
- Thread starter lxt
- Start date
Help Support Arborist Forum:
Did you know that 50% of houses in Melbourne alone are structural cracked.
Big bugaboos.
So waddya gonna do, clearcut Melbourne? Simplistic solution; the horse is in the next pasture and the barn door swings closed. How many of those cracks are caused by trees? Few. How many will be healed by cutting the tree? None.
And where did that stat come from, let me guess, some (re)building trades organization--and hey you know you can't trust organizations, right? :monkey:
Yeah bugaboo is a fun word; comes from celtic for 'devil', an object of fear.
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
What is wrong with you? Rather antagonistic!
Crikey, whatever magical orb device you have please send it over, save a lot of people a lot of work with that one. Engineers and Geotechnicians who have gathered data and made standards can just use Guy M's magical orb.
Imagine that, every builder MUST be licenced and registered with BSA, works often have to be approved by council, many regulations, many specialist degreed professionals ... totally unlike the tree business where an expert passes a 2 hour test and is certified, sits an open book exam as is now a consultant. :hmm3grin2orange:
There's managemnet of tree roots, liability issues, and people facing bills of up to $81k for underpinning houses. They cannot afford that, they cannot sell the house. Engineers reports with soil analysis says clear all trees within 6m of building, that's the cheapest part, or install root barrier (can be costly and difficult in some locations plus doesn't last forever).
And how would you feel being told that and it aint even your tree!
Yes, problems are exacerbated by drought, trees are part of the problem but a part that can be controlled.
Last edited:
No trees within 20' of building? Horsespit. That would not fly here at all. I've seen some engineering justifications for this from the uk and they were flimsy in their efforts to blame the trees.
Anyhoo, just to report that since I got listed at the treesaregood.com site where CA's can sign up--except those in NC, I'll keep splitting the work here with bartlett.:biggrinbounce2: --I got 2 nice jobs with huge trees for welltodo clients.
Both told me that they checked my website--not updated in 5 years--and hired me based on that and cert.
Anyhoo, just to report that since I got listed at the treesaregood.com site where CA's can sign up--except those in NC, I'll keep splitting the work here with bartlett.:biggrinbounce2: --I got 2 nice jobs with huge trees for welltodo clients.
Both told me that they checked my website--not updated in 5 years--and hired me based on that and cert.
Lumberjacked
ArboristSite Operative
I am definitely sending ISA an email/phone call. I have felt that they should do more for us in the publics eye for a while but never really voiced my opinion...guess its time!
Just yesterday a friend of mine told me that she was taking her CA test, only she is a Landscape Architect and has NEVER done anything tree care related except maybe an ID course in college. Being a friend of mine I really didnt say much but that really pissed me off knowing that her credentials will soon be equal to mine. I took my test to let customers know that I care more about the health and care of their trees more then just making $$$. People like my friend are taking their tests just to bull s*** customers into believing that they are qualified to make tree care decisions. Now dont get me wrong I used the education route to take my ISA test but I had also been running a full time tree care company all 5 years of school. I do have a BS degree in Forest Resource Management not drawing. Just my $.02
Something needs to change though!
Just yesterday a friend of mine told me that she was taking her CA test, only she is a Landscape Architect and has NEVER done anything tree care related except maybe an ID course in college. Being a friend of mine I really didnt say much but that really pissed me off knowing that her credentials will soon be equal to mine. I took my test to let customers know that I care more about the health and care of their trees more then just making $$$. People like my friend are taking their tests just to bull s*** customers into believing that they are qualified to make tree care decisions. Now dont get me wrong I used the education route to take my ISA test but I had also been running a full time tree care company all 5 years of school. I do have a BS degree in Forest Resource Management not drawing. Just my $.02
Something needs to change though!
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Degree qualified Landscape Architects here are the same, only do a 20 tree ID module and that's it.
Yet they carve up tree roots, plant trees in spots a mouse would struggle to live in and seldom consider the mature tree size.
If they can sit an ISA test atleast that's a step in the right direction and they'd have more knowledge than the little they already have about trees.
However, they're not on an equal footing with that qualification here as our qualified arborists, THANK GOODNESS!
Yet they carve up tree roots, plant trees in spots a mouse would struggle to live in and seldom consider the mature tree size.
If they can sit an ISA test atleast that's a step in the right direction and they'd have more knowledge than the little they already have about trees.
However, they're not on an equal footing with that qualification here as our qualified arborists, THANK GOODNESS!
jrparbor04
ArboristSite Operative
just applied for a different job at a local municipality around my neck of the woods to be their CA for the city,,,one of the many requirements are Certification,,,going over their tree preservation laws,,,i only wish more cities were like this one,,,they are very protective of their trees within city limits
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
Good luck on your job prospects, never stop learning.
jp, you may find that they talk the talk quite loudly in their ordinances and pr, but crawl the walk when it comes to enforcement.
re TCIA, here is the brochure for this year's expo. I really miss being at isa this year so i'm getting psyched early for expo. Still some tough choices in the afternoon for arbo's, but not as bad as last year. I'm glad I took the morning slot.
http://www.treecareindustry.org/PDFs/Expo07_brochure.pdf
jrparbor04
ArboristSite Operative
ill never stop learning in arboriculture,,,hopefully i get the city Arborist position and actually see if they do enforce those tree preservation ordinances!!!
next step for me is a Municipal Arborist certification
oldugly
ArboristSite Operative
The only time the ISA or even our local chapter has any concern at all for public education is when it is paid for by its local members. Case in point...
I recently ran a booth at two buisness expos, and home and garden shows. I called the ISA, (of which I am a recent member) and the MSA, (which I recently joined) asking them to send literature, or possibly even represent them somehow. I recently became certified and joined these organizations because I believe in trying to better this industry, (which I have participated in for 30 years, and have enjoyed the benefits of).
I was given over to sales which offered to sell me brochures, and posters, and coloring books. So I found out the ISA will definitely put their money where their mouth is...AS LONG AS IT COMES FROM MY POCKET
I recently became a certified arborist (left uncapitalized by intention)
Did it make me a better tree trimmer.....no.
Did it make me more knowledgable.....only in aspects of tree care I will never use
Did it bring me more business....Actually I think the clientelle here see the ca behind my name and imediately think I am too high priced...I get less calls instead of more.
Did it "inspire" me to do more spikeless climbing...not really I have been leaning towards that area for years, and have found many ways to ascend a tree without spikes in trimming situations
Do I suddenly think spikes are the greatest evil in the world...definitely not
Do I see any benefits from my ca or my membership to ISA, or MSA (the local chapter) yes...I got invited to a picnic...(after of course I spend 400.00 on a seminar), and I got invited to Hawaii, ..(During my busiest season, and of course after I pay my own way there and back and hotel rooms).
and I get a magazine every month...which tells me how great the IsA is and the wonderful things they are doing....along with several good articles,
For me personally so far (I repeat...SO FAR) the ISA cert. has been a total waste of my time, and funds, and the memberships have been a joke.
I recently ran a booth at two buisness expos, and home and garden shows. I called the ISA, (of which I am a recent member) and the MSA, (which I recently joined) asking them to send literature, or possibly even represent them somehow. I recently became certified and joined these organizations because I believe in trying to better this industry, (which I have participated in for 30 years, and have enjoyed the benefits of).
I was given over to sales which offered to sell me brochures, and posters, and coloring books. So I found out the ISA will definitely put their money where their mouth is...AS LONG AS IT COMES FROM MY POCKET
I recently became a certified arborist (left uncapitalized by intention)
Did it make me a better tree trimmer.....no.
Did it make me more knowledgable.....only in aspects of tree care I will never use
Did it bring me more business....Actually I think the clientelle here see the ca behind my name and imediately think I am too high priced...I get less calls instead of more.
Did it "inspire" me to do more spikeless climbing...not really I have been leaning towards that area for years, and have found many ways to ascend a tree without spikes in trimming situations
Do I suddenly think spikes are the greatest evil in the world...definitely not
Do I see any benefits from my ca or my membership to ISA, or MSA (the local chapter) yes...I got invited to a picnic...(after of course I spend 400.00 on a seminar), and I got invited to Hawaii, ..(During my busiest season, and of course after I pay my own way there and back and hotel rooms).
and I get a magazine every month...which tells me how great the IsA is and the wonderful things they are doing....along with several good articles,
For me personally so far (I repeat...SO FAR) the ISA cert. has been a total waste of my time, and funds, and the memberships have been a joke.
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Old, a while back you asked here if you should get ISA certified, I said you must already be good climber and that it will make you no better and associate you with all kinds of people, some who are very short on common sense. Others gushed and mewed about how great membership is. I take no pleasure in being right about this, but there have been a few things over the last while that I have been right about. Ladders are dangerous said I, not so, they are great said others, check out that classic picture in "what chainsaw is this". Any tree can be climbed spurless said some, big cedars can't said I, on another website the great Jerry Baranek says "it is impossible to set a line in those cedars". And then, the esteemed icon, Tom Dunlap, caught being far less than honest, duplicituous, in fact, about this whole sordid matter involving me climbing with spurs all the time for the ISA certified utility I do work for. And so it is.
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
Only you can do that, they provide educational material
Nothing(one) will wave a wand over your head and fill you up with knowledge. It is a never ending journey.
I don't think anyone else here does either, most have followed your path over time
Same as any other professional organization, dues cannot cover the cost of the shows. I look at it as if I can get one little nugget that I can use on a regular basis, one piece of knowledge that I can pass on to clientel, then it is worth my money and time.
I've always had a problem with ISA's convention timing, but a lot of the people are in the academic field and can only get away in the summer.
That's worth a lot right there
I've not gone ISA/CA because I can show a greater then minimum knowledge to my clientel, as a subcontractor, in a few minutes of conversation. I've been a Life Memeber for near 10 years, I think it has been well worth my while.
Last edited:
oldugly, I agree that distributing ISA-generated information is a great idea. That is why I spend $11. for 100 brochures, highlight the crucial info like collar cuts, flare finding etc, put my stamp on the back, and pass em out. It would be silly to ask ISA to give stuff away free, and It's well worth $.11 each to spread the word.
If you suspect your clientele sees you as a bad deal due to the cert, it's on you to tell em why you are a better deal now. Because you are; you should be making more money. Unless you are immortal, in time you will need to do less climbing and trimming, and you will be happy you know about more.
If you suspect your clientele sees you as a bad deal due to the cert, it's on you to tell em why you are a better deal now. Because you are; you should be making more money. Unless you are immortal, in time you will need to do less climbing and trimming, and you will be happy you know about more.
Last edited:
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Caulk boots are dangerous for you? Do you know how to walk? Regardless of the boots you wear, you are still on the ground (or maybe closer to the ground if you are in the bush without caulks) rather than being in the air on a ladder. So, lame comparison.
My point regarding Mr. Baranecks observation is this, I was climbing big cedars out in the bush, with spurs of course. I was called a hack by people here who said they could spurless climb any tree, even big cedars with drooping branches. Not so, now you are saying its less than 1% of trees and so what, about 25% of the trees I climbed there were cedars. Kind of like what Mr. Fisher from B.C. Hydro said about only 5% (to my friend), (1% to me) of the trees trimmed for Hydro are climbed. So, why lie and say they are climbed spurless? Lame again, when you are called on it, you deny that that much harm was caused, a primary excuse of deviant organizational behavior. You like Mr. Dunlap are employing circuituos logic, in a manner designed to shift blame and deflect criticism where it is due. All vegatation coordinators that work for B.C. Hydro are ISA certified, as is Mr. Fisher, B.C. Hydro wanted this, and paid for it. So to say that B.C. Hydro is blameless for thier employees decisions or omissions in this matter is again, lame.
Anything else?
My point regarding Mr. Baranecks observation is this, I was climbing big cedars out in the bush, with spurs of course. I was called a hack by people here who said they could spurless climb any tree, even big cedars with drooping branches. Not so, now you are saying its less than 1% of trees and so what, about 25% of the trees I climbed there were cedars. Kind of like what Mr. Fisher from B.C. Hydro said about only 5% (to my friend), (1% to me) of the trees trimmed for Hydro are climbed. So, why lie and say they are climbed spurless? Lame again, when you are called on it, you deny that that much harm was caused, a primary excuse of deviant organizational behavior. You like Mr. Dunlap are employing circuituos logic, in a manner designed to shift blame and deflect criticism where it is due. All vegatation coordinators that work for B.C. Hydro are ISA certified, as is Mr. Fisher, B.C. Hydro wanted this, and paid for it. So to say that B.C. Hydro is blameless for thier employees decisions or omissions in this matter is again, lame.
Anything else?
Last edited:
oldugly
ArboristSite Operative
Clearance,
I do not recall asking for advice on getting certified, but if I did I stand corrected, however the decision was made on the basis of self respect...and maybe to earn a little respect from my peers. I have valued your opinions highly, however most decisions I make are based on my own whims, or desires and not on the basis of web-based assosciates that I cannot place by face or personal contact. No offense intended at all. I would not expect others in this site to be influenced unduly by my assosciation here either.
JPS..I understand that getting certified did not make more knowledgable, what I was trying to say is that after 30 years in this business, all I did was prove what I already knew....which I have no problem proving on a day to day basis. But that is my point...I am still the same trimmer, person, tree climber, and businessman I was before. Be that good or bad. As far as the articles go, yes they are valuable, however are they worth the cost of the membership??? In my opinion that answer is still forthcoming.
No I do not expect for the ISA, or MSA to pay my fares for Hawaii, or any other event...but when given a chance to promote themselves in an area that is virtually void of any representation at all, the only representation they had was literature that I had to pay for out of pocket, distributed by a new member that had very limited information to give the public....So where is the ideal of public education?? From what I have seen (AGAIN A VERY LIMITED PERSPECTIVE) the "public" they are trying to educate consists of already members, or tree trimmers that are already trying to educate themselves. Their spiel seems to be delivered and redundantly reiterrated in the Arborist news, or their own educational material...but no where else. When given the opportunity to stand behind their mission...it falls on me to advertise them, instead of the reverse which is what their organization was suppose to be about.
This is remindful of the "Evangelist" who spends all his time speaking to the churches who are already saved, and none trying to spread the gospel.
IF the ISA is just a social club for tree trimmers...so be it..that is not all that bad. But then they should say that is what it is. IF they are who they say they are, (maybe I should rephrase that because I am a member) IF we are who we say we are....then lets step to the plate and be so. Social clubs are great...then our mission should be fellowship and education of ourselves, and representation of ourselves. Lets not pretend we are trying to spread information...in this instance. If we are seriously trying to educate the public then let's do so. Don't tell me how much is being done...show me, don't tell me how much it benefits me...show me, and show me how to help.
Yes, I am willing and ready to help in any way possible, but please don't ask me to spend my membership fee to recruit more members, in our own magazine. (Then complain that raising public awareness requires money...it requires a refocus of funds...not MORE funds).
I do not recall asking for advice on getting certified, but if I did I stand corrected, however the decision was made on the basis of self respect...and maybe to earn a little respect from my peers. I have valued your opinions highly, however most decisions I make are based on my own whims, or desires and not on the basis of web-based assosciates that I cannot place by face or personal contact. No offense intended at all. I would not expect others in this site to be influenced unduly by my assosciation here either.
JPS..I understand that getting certified did not make more knowledgable, what I was trying to say is that after 30 years in this business, all I did was prove what I already knew....which I have no problem proving on a day to day basis. But that is my point...I am still the same trimmer, person, tree climber, and businessman I was before. Be that good or bad. As far as the articles go, yes they are valuable, however are they worth the cost of the membership??? In my opinion that answer is still forthcoming.
No I do not expect for the ISA, or MSA to pay my fares for Hawaii, or any other event...but when given a chance to promote themselves in an area that is virtually void of any representation at all, the only representation they had was literature that I had to pay for out of pocket, distributed by a new member that had very limited information to give the public....So where is the ideal of public education?? From what I have seen (AGAIN A VERY LIMITED PERSPECTIVE) the "public" they are trying to educate consists of already members, or tree trimmers that are already trying to educate themselves. Their spiel seems to be delivered and redundantly reiterrated in the Arborist news, or their own educational material...but no where else. When given the opportunity to stand behind their mission...it falls on me to advertise them, instead of the reverse which is what their organization was suppose to be about.
This is remindful of the "Evangelist" who spends all his time speaking to the churches who are already saved, and none trying to spread the gospel.
IF the ISA is just a social club for tree trimmers...so be it..that is not all that bad. But then they should say that is what it is. IF they are who they say they are, (maybe I should rephrase that because I am a member) IF we are who we say we are....then lets step to the plate and be so. Social clubs are great...then our mission should be fellowship and education of ourselves, and representation of ourselves. Lets not pretend we are trying to spread information...in this instance. If we are seriously trying to educate the public then let's do so. Don't tell me how much is being done...show me, don't tell me how much it benefits me...show me, and show me how to help.
Yes, I am willing and ready to help in any way possible, but please don't ask me to spend my membership fee to recruit more members, in our own magazine. (Then complain that raising public awareness requires money...it requires a refocus of funds...not MORE funds).
It falls on all of us to promote better tree care, and isa mtl is just one bag of tools for that.
I agree that there is a lot more isa can and should do in the area of outreach and public ed, but it's not like I can get my cert and pay my dues and then sit back and beyotch because the org should do better. It seems there is still some confusion about the org--they are not the "them" you should promote, it's arboriculture.
"it falls on me to advertise them, instead of the reverse which is what their organization was suppose to be about."
have you looked at the treesaregood site? have you registered (free) there?
there are many other ways to use your cert and affiliations; look closer.
Last edited:
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Is that really the best you can do? I suggest you read it over agian. If you have nothing to say, other than to post innanities, then I suggest you do as I requested and stfu.
I think of the ISA as kind of a politician(s) & heres why!!! we will create it off your money, promote it off your money, pay our staff off your money & do all else off your money!!!. your money means membership dues & all purchase revenue of materials, certifications, etc...
Heres the kicker...... whenever something needs attention, fixed, overhauled, publicised(spelling), or in just general needs done!!! will the higher-ups take less money? NOoooo you will be called on to donate your time and dig deep to provide the(as they would say) much needed funding!!!
just like politicians-- we want our nice lifestyle without compromise, when we need more money or something for the good of what we deem necessary we`ll raise TAXES. In this instance DUES,MEMBERSHIP,PURCHASES and anything else we can make profit on INCLUDING YOU!!!!!
LXT..................
Heres the kicker...... whenever something needs attention, fixed, overhauled, publicised(spelling), or in just general needs done!!! will the higher-ups take less money? NOoooo you will be called on to donate your time and dig deep to provide the(as they would say) much needed funding!!!
just like politicians-- we want our nice lifestyle without compromise, when we need more money or something for the good of what we deem necessary we`ll raise TAXES. In this instance DUES,MEMBERSHIP,PURCHASES and anything else we can make profit on INCLUDING YOU!!!!!
LXT..................
Similar threads
