the all aussie dribble thread!

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Al, I got ripped off for 'rebuilt injectors' once and then decided to rebuild my own. What I found was that there was usually some varnish build up on the injector components. If you take them apart and run the components through their movement, you may find a 'ridge' of resistance that you can't see with your naked eye. That bit of build up can prevent the injector from fully opening and from closing properly.

Use some strong cleaner and clean everything up and you may find that you just 'rebuilt' your injectors.
 
Al, I got ripped off for 'rebuilt injectors' once and then decided to rebuild my own. What I found was that there was usually some varnish build up on the injector components. If you take them apart and run the components through their movement, you may find a 'ridge' of resistance that you can't see with your naked eye. That bit of build up can prevent the injector from fully opening and from closing properly.

Use some strong cleaner and clean everything up and you may find that you just 'rebuilt' your injectors.

:cheers:

I was looking for the article on the home made boost controller I had seen a couple/few years ago, but it doesn't seem to be about anymore. I found it after I bought one from Autobarn.

Oh well, might as well take the settings back up and play with the boost compensator a little in the meantime.
 
I had the pump and injectors rebuilt a couple of years ago and the decrease in fuel consumption was brilliant. Now it's disastrous. :confused:

I had the boost set at 12 psi with the fuel set to match keeping the egt's kept below 550c as per egt gauge so I've backed off the settings and she's still drinking flat out like a lizard!

Al, a friend who makes digital pyro's wrote a really good article on adjusting the boost compensator on VE pumps and how they deliver fuel.

I'll dig it up and post it.
It's aimed at Landy's but applies to any VE rotary pump injected engine.

One trick with Patrol injectors to is to increase the break open pressure, (basically double it)
It reduces the chances of running on when the timings been advanced. The only problem is that the nearest diesel place wanted $98/injector to set them up last time I enquired.

As for diesel injector cleaner, I've found Redline RL2 is very good and doesn't show up on a UOA unlike some/most that play merry hell with the oil and bearings.
 
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Rick, I wish I had that document some 5 years ago. I had to dig up all the information and figure out the Bosch VE pump the hard way. Here is a thread I did on modifying the boost compensator on that Surf forum - Toyota 4WD Surf Owners :: View topic - 2LT Boost compensator

That VE pump has been around since WWII. It works really well for all sorts of fuel, its especially valuable in third world countries with questionable fuel. If I had to choose between a modern electronic computer controlled common rail system and that old mechanical system that you could fix with a spanner - I'd choose the VE system anytime.
 
Know of him.

A few of the Landy blokes are trying his brewed up CT26 on the Isuzu. Super CT26 - Australian Land Rover Owners

[edit]Al, re the RL2, I would only use a maintenance dose, ie. roughly a couple of ounces/tank, usually that's all that's needed and just keep using it.
It acts as a pump/injector lube too as it has an ashless two stroke ester synthetic lube in it.
 
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Some more POP dribble, I found this compilation of posts I made from the EC Birt forum. I just took the good parts and left out the waffle. Each 'paragraph' is the essence from each of the threads -

We like it closer to 9 lbs pop, usually no lower and when we go to high altitude we raise it 2 to 4 lbs.
At your altitude you should be higher on pop than if you were at sea level because of the air density differences. On gas a .085 arm height and about 12 to 13 pop should do it.

It should work now, .065 arm height gets the needle open sooner than .075 as the demand diaphram has less distance to move to open the needle and creates more fuel volume in the wet side. If it bogs bring that low side needle out till it quits bogging and pulls hard. After you get it fattened on the low side you may have to lean the top some to get it lean enough to fly on top.

Is this a gas carb? Gas pop-off should be at least 10 lbs maybe a little more. If it was low it would make it rich. Go with 11 lbs pop with a .075 arm height if gas and 8 to 9 pop if alky with a .065 arm height. Then you can tune with the needles to lean it out. Jon

It likes fairly high pop-off , because of the small venturi. Try around 14lbs, if it acts lean, and wants the needles to be way out then drop a couple of pounds.

the lower the pop-off is set the richer the fuel curve is at the bottom.

the pressure of the spring controls pop-off. So ,if you go from a low pressure pop to a higher one, spring pressure must increase. Cooler air is more dense, so pop-off should be lower in the winter, and raised some for higher temps.

We run right at 11 lbs pop-off for our Leapords here in the States, and this is for tracks from sea level to 1500 or so. Higher altitude would require slightly higher pop-off.

it's all about the spring . You can cut a coil off on some springs and still have a full flat coil on the end, if not you should go to a softer or shorter spring to lower. To raise pop, you should either change to a stiffer or longer spring or if your Tec allows we have some .010 shims that go under the spring to raise at about 1/2 lb at a time.

We have a complete assortment of springs that we carry, but there's a lot of them you wouldn't use if you run just gas or just alky. We can pick you a spring that will hit close to what you want then either shim up or cut down to get it right where you want it.

18 lb pop-off is pretty typical for the UK, because of conditions and the way the carbs are built for UK tec. Higher pop-off would take some more fuel away and would only be productive if you were too rich at 18 lbs. As far as arm height , I prefer .085, which is leaner than .075 and will make a big difference in fuel flow. You just have to try some different settings, to see what will work best for you. Go with .085 arm 16lb pop-off, tune it about 1 3/4 low and 1/2 high or whatever on high to get engine heat where you want it. If you find your needle settings want to be way less than this, then raise the pop-off a pound or two.

you need a .085 arm height and about 10 to 12 pop-off pressure, that will get you where you can tune it with the needles. If you were at high altitude you would want it higher. We measure arm height from the carb base down to the top of the arm, and thats with no gasket

You just have to optimize the tune on each individual carb, the main difference will be the 166 having a smaller venturi will have a stronger fuel signal than the 334 which will make the 334 even more touchy about having the correct pop-off. And when you are in the right range of pop-off then you can tune it out with the High and Low neddles. If carbs are on the same motor then 166 needs higher pop than the 334. The 166 12 to 14 at sea level going up as high as 18 for real bad air or altitude. The 334 needs about 10 on a small motor and then go up from there with heat and or altitude.
 
"the lower the pop-off is set the richer the fuel curve is at the bottom." That is what I suspected all along. The lower POP would allow the carb to flow more fuel at lower velocities through the venturi - and then the top-end RPM would be limited by the fixed orifice of the High speed needle. - That is the 'fuel curve' information I was looking for.

I'm still uncertain about lifting the metering lever (reducing the distance from the diaphragm to the lever). It appears that it may result in a linear (as opposed to a curve) increase in fuel flow. I know that when I did raise the lever on the old stock carb it did increase L and H speed fuel flow and I had to lean both out, but I would have to get some more experience to say definitively.

Other considerations to get optimum metering:

If you put a bigger carb on your saw, you may have to reduce the POP.

If you put a big bore kit on your saw, you may have to increase the POP.

If you substantially increase your RPM and use the stock carb, you may have to increase the POP.

EDIT: The above guidelines only apply under the assumption that the stock POP was dialed in correctly in the first place. I would expect that with the EPA influence on emissions, that the POP may be biased to being too high in the first place.

If the POP was higher than the optimum for a saw, a big bore kit may put the carb POP nearer to the optimum setting. In which case, some of the increased torque that is experienced from big bore kits could be related to the more uniform metering of the carb over the powerband.
 
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Al, re the RL2, I would only use a maintenance dose, ie. roughly a couple of ounces/tank, usually that's all that's needed and just keep using it.
It acts as a pump/injector lube too as it has an ashless two stroke ester synthetic lube in it.

Rick, had a bit of a look around Wang today but couldn't spot it. Do you know of any retailer that may stock it? Ta mate.
 
What, no comments about the POP research? Come on guys, I find it hard to believe that some of you would stick a Dremel into an expensive jug to try something different and then be cautious about fiddling with a $.75 spring that you could easily replace.

I'll limit this discussion to the main high speed circuit and leave the low speed circuit out.

If we made up a diagram/chart of fuel flow to air velocity through the carb, we could have fuel flow being the vertical axis and the CFP of air flow the horizonal axis. A properly designed carb would have a uniform fuel flow (uniform mixture strength) that matched the increase in air flow. In other words, perfect 'jetting' all through the rev range.

Of course, the air flow through the venturi creates a depression (the 'signal') that rises expotentially as the velocity increases. That would normally create an excessive strength (too rich) as the air velocity rose. However, we also have the fixed orifice of the High speed needle that limits the flow of fuel expotentially as the fuel flow increases. A properly set up carb would have the two systems (air flow and fuel) cancel out their expotential functions and deliver a uniform fuel/air mixture.

If you dropped the POP on a carb, you would increase the fuel flow at all velocities - except that you could limit the top end of the curve with the High speed needle orifice. The result would be a carb that would be richer down low, but with the same high speed fuel flow.

Conversly, if you increased the POP you would decrease the fuel flow at all velocities - except that you could richen the High speed needle. The result would be a carb that would be leaner down low, but with the same high speed fuel flow.

Make sense?
 
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Terry to be truthful, I haven't read what you've posted as yet but have full intentions. Been a little busy with various things atm, work, servicing and playing with some settings on the diesel side of the Nissan. I need to go in the Chinese saw and check a few settings as a basic tune and cleanout isn't producing the necessary response. Keep posting the info tho as even tho you might not get responses, we are reading.

Rick I picked up some that Redline additive today. Not cheap, but if it's successful, it's worth it.

:cheers:
 
Terry I have been reading but I'm not qualified to have an opinion now if we were talking flat ,round or cv carbies on a bike I would be able to comment with out talking through my arse.

A couple pics for AL

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33 coppers and are very loud on the road

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33 BFG 70K on them better tyre than the coopers. The wheels are mad from cutting up standard cruise wheels in a lathe and welding them back together. extra width has increased the track

long shackles and heavy springs
 
Saltas, yeah when it comes to say a slide carb, there are plenty of diagrams to show what each jet, needle or slide cutaway will do to the fuel flow. However, when it comes to these diaphragm carbs there ain't nothing - no diagrams, no charts, nothing to work from. I've been trying to get my head around how they work so I could develop some tuning principles. I think I am getting there, but this is my first experience and I only have the one saw to work from.

If anyone has some input, even a 'dumb' question, it will probably take the inquiry a step further to building a body of knowledge.
 
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