the all aussie dribble thread!

[bennn*e]

Don't let Andrew fool you. The 441C isn't the only 70cc saw that can do a good day's work Even though Stihl should pay him a commission for how many he's sold.

Dare I say have the best air filters though

 

[ausneil 1]

So the power is in the paint eh?

Yea that's where it is,,,,, that's why so many painted up saws are in the arena winning every weekend, nothing to do with chain or operator...

 

[MCW]

Dare I say have the best air filters though

Good filters but no better than a Dolmar HD. Dare I say it but with the Dolmar sucking from the back I reckon it would stay cleaner. I do like their twist on twist off setup though. No flies on either saw. Andrew's ported 441C goes hard though.

 

[MCW]

When your onto something good stick with it.
The 441Cs are not the best saws in the world but for my prime use blocking for hrs on end in green Sugargum there is no better tool i have found.

Actually mate the 441's would be right up there in the 70cc class. Efficiency is the key and they don't drink like the 660's that's for sure. I'm not a big fan of their balance but that's a personal preference. People that are use to Stihls don't like the feel of Dolmars and Huskys either

 

[bennn*e]

Good thing is they come stock on our saws here though I still like running your 7900 though just takes a bit of finesse to keep it in the go zone but once you get the feel for it it's smooth as

 

[bennn*e]

MS441 has the pre separation which I found made a big difference when I was cutting out of old red gum piles. 066 such from the back too

 

[MCW]

Good thing is they come stock on our saws here though I still like running your 7900 though just takes a bit of finesse to keep it in the go zone but once you get the feel for it it's smooth as

Yeah my 7900 is a bit peaky. There are quicker 7900's around than mine and with the Dolmars bore and stroke they should actually out torque a 461 out of the box. A stock for stock comparo would be really interesting.
Dolmar should just ditch the stock filter setup and fit the HD as standard. Ditch those crap spikes too. Stihl spikes on their larger pro saws are spot on.

 

[MCW]

MS441 has the pre separation which I found made a big difference when I was cutting out of old red gum piles. 066 such from the back too

Yeah the photos Andrew put up comparing his 441 and 461 with wood dust were unreal.
Interestingly the 660's I had sucked way more dust into the filter than my Dolmars. I reckon I posted photos somewhere before but the 660's were completely covered when the Dolmar was fine.

 

[MCW]

Yea that's where it is,,,,, that's why so many painted up saws are in the arena winning every weekend, nothing to do with chain or operator...

Now you know the secret Neil. Yellow and black paint! It follows the same theory as sticking a Chev badge on a Commodore - adds an instant 100HP apparently.

 

[Stihlman441]

Any of you blokes had anything to do with the cheep assed post hole diggers on fleebay around the 70cc class.

 

[MCW]

Any of you blokes had anything to do with the cheep assed post hole diggers on fleebay around the 70cc class.

I had to fix the carby on one for a guy. It was brand new and wouldn't start. Like all things Chinese the carby was crap. It's run fine since though but is lacking the safety gear of the better brands like Stihl. If it grabs and you're in the wrong spot brace yourself for a pummelling in the thighs

 

[derwoodii]

was havin a chat with the old man over the weekend and his asked why do gum trees love dropping perfectly good looking limbs? and especially when theres no wind to be had.

if you heat up a bar of steel it gets weak and be bent, if you heat it cool it mistreat over and over it can shatter if loaded with to much weight


summer limb shed is complex and still not clearly understood tree behavior, Yes dont go pitchin your tent under river reds is best advice, thou all trees drop limbs and as we live in OZ we most likely see gums dropping limbs & unlikely to see an English oak or US maple peel one off.

In most cases while the limbs may look sound close examination may find hair line cracks of previous fault failure or torsion twist by storm induced bending and in these cracks will be a weak link exploited by decay. Often you'll find a white power decay Mycelium spreading over the inner wood surface, this decay can chew away certain cellular components of the wood ability to hold itself either tension compression or stretch, like all dynamic structures limbs must give bend and return to position. So if the tissue tensile strength is eaten away.....and its hot and the wood expands then pop! off it drops.. The crack or bang on big one can be loud, not so much an explosion but can be dramatic.
White smooth bark gums tend to be problem but this may be due to higher people use around them making this observation eg rivers campsite parks etc correlation is not always a causation. These failures while rare are enough to warrant due care but injury death P/A is less than shark attacks in OZ ATM,,, you got more chance of winning 1st div Tatts than being hit by a summer drop red gum limb.
What ***** me is these limbs never drop on some prick who deserves it like a **** politician,,, ever... Its always some poor little kid or an undeserving unlucky sod.

 

[MCW]

if you heat up a bar of steel it gets weak and be bent, if you heat it cool it mistreat over and over it can shatter if loaded with to much weight


summer limb shed is complex and still not clearly understood tree behavior, Yes dont go pitchin your tent under river reds is best advice, thou all trees drop limbs and as we live in OZ we most likely see gums dropping limbs & unlikely to see an English oak or US maple peel one off.

In most cases while the limbs may look sound close examination may find hair line cracks of previous fault failure or torsion twist by storm induced bending and in these cracks will be a weak link exploited by decay. Often you'll find a white power decay Mycelium spreading over the inner wood surface, this decay can chew away certain cellular components of the wood ability to hold itself either tension compression or stretch, like all dynamic structures limbs must give bend and return to position. So if the tissue tensile strength is eaten away.....and its hot and the wood expands then pop! off it drops.. The crack or bang on big one can be loud, not so much an explosion but can be dramatic.
White smooth bark gums tend to be problem but this may be due to higher people use around them making this observation eg rivers campsite parks etc correlation is not always a causation. These failures while rare are enough to warrant due care but injury death P/A is less than shark attacks in OZ ATM,,, you got more chance of winning 1st div Tatts than being hit by a summer drop red gum limb.
What ***** me is these limbs never drop on some prick who deserves it like a **** politician,,, ever... Its always some poor little kid or an undeserving unlucky sod.

I agree on certain pathogens causing issues with cell integrity but you'll tend to find trees shedding limbs in both high rainfall and desert type conditions. As a rule fungal pathogens will always be more likely to occur in higher rainfall areas than low rainfall - therefore I'd expect higher limb drop in wetter areas but not sure if that is the case or not. It always happens here with Redgums in heat. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this being a pretty clued up arborist.
Eucalypts are also inherently brittle too which I think adds to the issue. They don't have the same flex as other species. Like bending a leaf spring compared to a file.

 

[derwoodii]

I agree on certain pathogens causing issues with cell integrity but you'll tend to find trees shedding limbs in both high rainfall and desert type conditions. As a rule fungal pathogens will always be more likely to occur in higher rainfall areas than low rainfall - therefore I'd expect higher limb drop in wetter areas but not sure if that is the case or not. It always happens here with Redgums in heat. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this being a pretty clued up arborist.
Eucalypts are also inherently brittle too which I think adds to the issue. They don't have the same flex as other species. Like bending a leaf spring compared to a file.

decay in wet vs dry forest sumthin to ponder

I'm only clued up cuz get to read other hard workin researcher reports,, here a few they ramble on a bit but skip about you'll find the guts of the matter is still uncertain but much depends on the observations of the affected below...yikes You try tell some one hit by a big limb that they are statistically low data,,,oddly it dont go down to well

https://www.lga.sa.gov.au/webdata/r...ent_of_Trees_on_Publi_Land_-_Final_Report.pdf

http://treenetmedia.com/up/pdf/2007/07TS_A TREE FAILURE DATA BASE_MarcusLodge.pdf

 

[VinceGU05]

Although that cuts the mustard in a pinch and is better than stock if you talk to any builder they really need the whole saw to do a decent job. Many builders won't even think of doing the cylinder alone and actually refuse to do it like that.

I got a cylinder off weedeaterman and shipped it to Randy. He done his magic on its and sent it over with an email of a few things I had to do. And it's all worked well so far.

 

[MCW]

I got a cylinder off weedeaterman and shipped it to Randy. He done his magic on its and sent it over with an email of a few things I had to do. And it's all worked well so far.

Hey I've done the same and yes it works considerably better than stock. Unfortunately it can always work a lot better and a few corners get cut when you just grind and ship. Some of the old school, well respected builders on AS like Eric Copsey, Timberwolf (can't remember his real name?), Dennis Cahoon etc will not work on just the cylinder, only the whole saw.
Case matching, port matching etc are important build components plus carby mods. For example the ported and pop upped 7900 I own goes pretty hard for what it is but when you see a Copsey built 7900 it looks slow. At the time Eric was considerably more expensive though and I near got him to do a 390XP for me.
I'm not going to get too anal about it as I've done similar things but if you saw the difference that Neil made to a stock BB kit on a 365 with JUST a carby mod you'd be amazed. Grind and post, grind and post, grind and post. That seems to be the modern saw builder on AS If I let Neil loose on my ported 390XP I reckon he'd get an extra 10% with the carby alone.
Guys like Timberwolf (and others) would build a saw and run it. Then they'd pull it down, play with it, then run it again, and so on and so on. Yes you'd pay for it but by the time they'd finished it was the whole package.

I've lost track of how many times I've heard builders here say "I've built faster and better saws than this one". Well bloody well fix it!!! Problem is that once the top is bolted back on that's as good as it gets. The more experienced builders know when something isn't quite right and they fix it.

I'm not having a crack at certain building methods but they are far more "supermarket check out" style now than they used to be only a few years ago. Every saw builder on AS blows their own trumpet to some extent and unfortunately a lot of their chest beating is based on a flat out race in softwood cants at some GTG. The guys who really know how to build saws keep pretty quiet. The guy who built Andrew's 441C and 461 is one example. Few people would even know he's a builder.

 

[Stihlman441]

Very well put there Matt i agree 100%.
Theres a lot more to it than grinding a bit here and a bit there,its a compleat package and all the little things make the differance,some poeple like a high RPM saw some like a torquey saw some a bit of both.
For me RPM doesnt mean a lot i like a saw that will hold RPM as in torque.After saying that but the 441Cs you need a light feel not to push to hard and bog them down theres a narrow power band.

 

[scallywag]

I've also seen Candlebarks (E,rubida) droping limbs in the same circumstances as i mentioned.

 

[MCW]

Very well put there Matt i agree 100%.
Theres a lot more to it than grinding a bit here and a bit there,its a compleat package and all the little things make the differance,some poeple like a high RPM saw some like a torquey saw some a bit of both.
For me RPM doesnt mean a lot i like a saw that will hold RPM as in torque.After saying that but the 441Cs you need a light feel not to push to hard and bog them down theres a narrow power band.

You can tell that the builder who did your 461 knows how to get good torque. That thing had it in spades. The 441C was definitely more peaky but that was the way it was built. It was more like my 7900 - you need to know how to drive it to get the best out of it

 

[Stihlman441]

Mitch shows the workings of a ROTARY chainsaw ?.