SawTroll
Information Collector
It isn't an Humbolt - the lower picture show the butt of the falled tree, not the stump.rb_in_va said:
Btw, I also misread the pictures at first, and I posted something stupid as a result of that......
There's yer sign.
- Thread starter Haywire Haywood
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Btw, I also misread the pictures at first, and I posted something stupid as a result of that......
Good eye SawTroll, I see that now.
SawTroll
Information Collector
Monkeyhanger said:
Sure, but a deeper one (within reason) will increase the chances that a "balanced" tree will want to go the intened way by itself, putting more weight in front of the pivot point (hinge).
Here is a very good link on felling. Also some other useful information.http://www.memic.com/publications_library/ProductionFelling.pdf
SWE#Kipp
Addicted to ArboristSite
SawTroll said:
Don't you got to be very sure about the lean if you do like that, you loose allot of wedge leverage and room driving in the wedge/wedges atleast on the "smaller" trees like the one on the picture ,,,, but I could of course be wrong, happens all the time !!
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
Face depth
That face, in a 20 inch tree is fine.
I agree with SawTroll that a deeper face can be an asset by providing a better first stage to the release.
I also agree with SWE#Kipp that a deeper face can be problematic for his reasons stated.
Suggestion: Over time, don't lock in to any particular face depth on every tree. Remember, the shallower face depth that is prescribed by many is based on the open face technique. It is a small tree production cutting method designed to save lumber at the base of the butt, sometimes at the expense of physics.
Since your tree went over at least close to the desired direction of fall, I'm gonna guess that either a shallow or deep face was just fine here.
Haywire Haywood: The face cuts did not match, (called a dutchman - interesting on how few posters from the Netherlands we have on Arbotistsite), and that can cause serious control errors.
However, your hinge looks pretty good and that is the key point on control.
That face, in a 20 inch tree is fine.
I agree with SawTroll that a deeper face can be an asset by providing a better first stage to the release.
I also agree with SWE#Kipp that a deeper face can be problematic for his reasons stated.
Suggestion: Over time, don't lock in to any particular face depth on every tree. Remember, the shallower face depth that is prescribed by many is based on the open face technique. It is a small tree production cutting method designed to save lumber at the base of the butt, sometimes at the expense of physics.
Since your tree went over at least close to the desired direction of fall, I'm gonna guess that either a shallow or deep face was just fine here.
Haywire Haywood: The face cuts did not match, (called a dutchman - interesting on how few posters from the Netherlands we have on Arbotistsite), and that can cause serious control errors.
However, your hinge looks pretty good and that is the key point on control.
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
level cuts
After you get your bar/chain looked at, practice practice practice.
If you can, cut down several trees at about 3 1/2 feet high. This is a safer height from the standpoints of looking up and quick escapes. Now you have safe practice stumps for self inflicted training. Sorry.
Then with a torpedo level handy, cut several times working on getting everything level. Use the level at right angles.
After you get your bar/chain looked at, practice practice practice.
If you can, cut down several trees at about 3 1/2 feet high. This is a safer height from the standpoints of looking up and quick escapes. Now you have safe practice stumps for self inflicted training. Sorry.
Then with a torpedo level handy, cut several times working on getting everything level. Use the level at right angles.
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
thumbs
Monkeyhanger made the suggestion: "It also helps when doing horizontal cuts to operate the gas trigger with your thumb rather than your finger; it's much easier to hold the saw level that way."
Picture the bar tip eventually contacting an object and a kickback occurring while you have this grip.
{Four basic steps to avoiding kickback injuries:
1) PPE. Chaps in particular,
2) Bar location management,
3) Functioning chain brake,
4) Both hands gripping well with thumbs opposed.}
However, when holding a saw level on felling cuts, the faller has limited strength in holding a saw well enough to stop most kickbacks anyway. Because of the location of the left and on the side of the saw. Hopefully your saws kick back handle will engage anyway.
But I would still caution against 'looser' hand holding of the saw while making felling cuts. This is a self discipline issue that all of us have to periodically address.
Monkeyhanger made the suggestion: "It also helps when doing horizontal cuts to operate the gas trigger with your thumb rather than your finger; it's much easier to hold the saw level that way."
Picture the bar tip eventually contacting an object and a kickback occurring while you have this grip.
{Four basic steps to avoiding kickback injuries:
1) PPE. Chaps in particular,
2) Bar location management,
3) Functioning chain brake,
4) Both hands gripping well with thumbs opposed.}
However, when holding a saw level on felling cuts, the faller has limited strength in holding a saw well enough to stop most kickbacks anyway. Because of the location of the left and on the side of the saw. Hopefully your saws kick back handle will engage anyway.
But I would still caution against 'looser' hand holding of the saw while making felling cuts. This is a self discipline issue that all of us have to periodically address.
Monkeyhanger
ArboristSite Guru
SawTroll said:
Hi,
good point, I generally prefer the option of having a little more space for wedges or a "fällheber", sorry I can't remember the English name for it just now, if the lean/weather/etc. is the slightest bit unclear.
Bye
Monkeyhanger
ArboristSite Guru
smokechase II said:
Hi Smokechase,
actually holding the saw like that is easier and gives a firmer and more natural grip on the saw. Even if the saw does kick back then it goes away from your body not towards it. That makes it safer in my opinion as a saw that kicks back AWAY from your body is a definate plus.
Maybe you have a different picture in your mind to what I mean. So I'll try and describe it exactly.
To use the saw this way you have to imagine that the saw will be cutting around the tree clockwise. This means the saw is on its right hand/clutch side. The saw is held by the side part of the front handle as normal but the right hand holds the rear handle from the side. Which in this case also means from above which in turn means it is difficult to use your finger on the trigger.
It is however very easy to use your thumb for the trigger and hold the saw more naturally and much more firmly than holding the grip from above with an unnatural arm/wrist position. The wood is cut with the underside of the bar as you go backwards/clockwise around the tree.
You are also always keeping the tip of the bar away from any wood so I genuinely can't see how you believe this to be dangerous? For the saw to hit your body it would have to arc through 180° to nearly 270° depending on the angle to your body!
Bye
SawTroll
Information Collector
smokechase II said:
Valid point i guess, but I will continue to use the thumb on the trigger - never had a kick-back when felling......
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SawTroll
Information Collector
Monkeyhanger said:
On larger trees I often insert a wedge and give it a couple of whacks as soon as the cut is deep enough, as a safety measure, but I often don't have to drive it further in to topple the tree over.
Monkeyhanger said:
Interesting, I'm going by the techniques in Dent's book . He says that the face cut needs to be 1/3 of the diameter of the tree and the hinge 1/10th. I tried to "follow the directions" in this regard. The hinge is a bit narrow. I had to wedge it over as it is. I think if I had made the back cut higher, it might have gone over on it's own without the wedging and the hinge would have been wider. I'm just guessing about what might have happened at this point. Maybe I would have had to wedge it anyway.
On another topic, I found a bullseye level at Ace, but there's nowhere on the saw that is perpendicular to the bar... LOL
Ian
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Hi Ian. Could you mount the bullseye level on the side of one of the dogs? Heck, if they are too small just get some of those huge west coast dogs. Then you could put it right on the bar if you wanted to.Haywire Haywood said:
opcorn:
Urbicide said:Hi Ian. Could you mount the bullseye level on the side of one of the dogs? Heck, if they are too small just get some of those huge west coast dogs. Then you could put it right on the bar if you wanted to.
LOL... nah, already pitched the idea. Still have the level tho if you want to give it a wing.
Ian
Haywire Haywood said:
That's what it says in the Beranek book too. I don't recall him giving guidance on the hinge width though. Funny thing is I was reading about this very thing the day before you posted this thread.
