Today's youth!

[jefflovstrom]

We take applications all the time. I have noticed that alot of our youth is thinking they are worth more than 15 bucks an hour. I remember my first job was $1.90 an hour and I got a raise to $2.10 an hour and thout I was doing good. These kids today think they are deserving. You are dragging brush and cannot even back a chipper to the site and you want $15 an hour? After a little talk, I might hire him at $9.50. Bet he take's it. Any you guy's understand?
Jeff

 

[TreEmergencyB]

its even worse when you know your worth at least 15 can climb prune right and back the chipper and only get 13

 

[jefflovstrom]

Yeah, kinda a catch 22 if you think you are worth it.
Jeff
I wonder how your feeling? Peter Framptom, 1976.

 

[jefflovstrom]

its even worse when you know your worth at least 15 can climb prune right and back the chipper and only get 13

I am ready to start a thread on that if you want to, cause it is true!
Jeff

 

[Slvrmple72]

Sometimes you gotta take what you can get and be thankful. My 6yr old is happily clearing the front porch with the shovel I gave him as a gift right now as we get ready to bring in more firewood for the wood stove in the basement. He loves to help. Got him a kid's saddle for christmas to play in the trees with dad. I think the best gift I can give him is a good work ethic. He loves baking cookies in the kitchen with mom too!

 

[TreeAce]

I thought everybody in CA made the big bucks but everything cost more ? Maybe its just rent and mortgage thats high . Just sayn that cuz around here 10 is starter pay with 15 being only for a GOOD dependable groundie...WITH A DRIVERS LICENSE .

 

[TreeClimber57]

We take applications all the time. I have noticed that alot of our youth is thinking they are worth more than 15 bucks an hour. I remember my first job was $1.90 an hour and I got a raise to $2.10 an hour and thout I was doing good. These kids today think they are deserving. You are dragging brush and cannot even back a chipper to the site and you want $15 an hour? After a little talk, I might hire him at $9.50. Bet he take's it. Any you guy's understand?
Jeff

You are right on the money..!! Everybody thinks they are worth the big bucks right away..

Even some of the best workers and climbers I have had over the year have issues.. most of the young guys today just don't think the same as in the 1970' and 80's. Some do though, and if you find one hang onto them if you can.

 

[cowtipper]

We take applications all the time. I have noticed that alot of our youth is thinking they are worth more than 15 bucks an hour. I remember my first job was $1.90 an hour and I got a raise to $2.10 an hour and thout I was doing good. These kids today think they are deserving. You are dragging brush and cannot even back a chipper to the site and you want $15 an hour? After a little talk, I might hire him at $9.50. Bet he take's it. Any you guy's understand?
Jeff

The key is how long ago was that? If you look at the cost of inflation, $1.90 hr in 1960 is $13.99 hr in 2010.

Try out his inflation calculator, and see what you come up with.

http://www.halfhill.com/inflation.html

 

[banshee67]

The key is how long ago was that? If you look at the cost of inflation, $1.90 hr in 1960 is $13.99 hr in 2010.

Try out his inflation calculator, and see what you come up with.

http://www.halfhill.com/inflation.html

lets not get all technical and bring things like facts into a conversation!
if he worked for $1.90 an hour 40+ years ago.. well then, damnit so should kids today!

 

[GLOBOTREE]

The Woodsman

Man, i have twenty years now about 16 solid in the Tree~and you know I have the highest respect for the "oldtimers" who worked very hard to build the industry up to what it is today, we need to continue the tradition for the youths sake. I am self employed because i chose years ago to earn a weeks wages in a single monday morning. But, boys...i gotta say, times are gettin tough~i have seen myself working for 15/hr plenty, as we all know 15 is better than none. Also, these fellas that are worth 15 should have no problem gettin it, easily.I dont know, climbing a tree is just such a different task than any, each tree is different some pay and some dont. But every hour these guys are on the clock pays. There seems to be a load of work everywhere~ ??:chainsawguy:

 

[cowtipper]

lets not get all technical and bring things like facts into a conversation!
if he worked for $1.90 an hour 40+ years ago.. well then, damnit so should kids today!

very will put...

 

[lego1970]

Here is my expenses per month. I'm not saying your wrong or right but just to break it down. Keep in mind, my p/u truck is paid off, my house is a clean and comfy but very small two bedroom house. No cable, no gas bill. My phone and internet is high but that's because I mostly truck and therefore need unlimitted services. Electric is monthly average for the year. Health insurance is a very crappy with extremely high deductible. Child support is $434, but then she pays health and dental insurance which is about $200, so again if I didn't have to pay child support but had to pay health insurance that would only save me $234 per month. A lot of expenses, I've forgot or didn't include.

Mortgage, w/property tax and insurance, $696
Child Support $434
Health Insurance $189
Phone and internet $169
Electric $150
Water $35
p/u truck insurance $63
Food $280
Gas $400
Son's lunch money $50
Son's clothes, toys, misc school activities, $100
My clothes, gloves, boots, t-shirts $30

Total, $2596.00

$15 per hour at an average of 40 hours per week without even paying taxes
$2400.00

So before I even take out taxes, I'm -$196 in the hole. With taxes (about 27% for me) I'm already -$844 in the hole.

Again that doesn't inculde everyday issues like, furnace breaks down, kid gets sick, room needs new paint, microwave quits working, truck needs a new tire, etc, etc.

Then most (not all) of the tree companies want you to supply your own chainsaws, saddles, ropes, or get to use some unknown beat up nicked to death old rope of theirs.

$15 per hour seems great when you started out so low, but in today's world and living standards, that's not really that much. I started out around $3.95 an hour (not doing tree work) but I was still living with my folks. That was about mid, late 80's. If a guy is still living with his folks then yes $15 per hour is great, but if he ain't, he's screwed.

I will say this and then I'll shut up. When I take a job, I always try to give it my best and it does irk me when I see some greenhorn groundsmand and even supposed tree climbers leaning on tree or talking to his girlfriend while I'm up in the tree needing something. Having said that, sometimes I've gotten frustrated and gave up. As I get a little older (not old, I'm only 39 but just a little older then most of the guys I end up working with) I question why I still do tree work, as there is no retirement package and most the times (if I'm working for somebody else) I'm working my @ss off so the boss can live in a $300k home with a goodlooking wife, lake house, boat, etc, etc. I swear some of the boss's I've worked for would ask me to literaly wipe their @ss if they thought they could legally get away with it. Maybe even make my 8 year old son their slave....if they thought they could get away with it. Most of the tree work I do anymore is by myself, besides I'm not fast enough in a tree to keep up with most tree companies, although I can out drag most guys in their early 20's no problem.

Ok, sorry I'm rambling now.

 

[mikewhite85]

I thought everybody in CA made the big bucks but everything cost more ? Maybe its just rent and mortgage thats high . Just sayn that cuz around here 10 is starter pay with 15 being only for a GOOD dependable groundie...WITH A DRIVERS LICENSE .

Worker's comp is insane in CA. Unless you are a big company that has the ability to do the jobs no one else can do, you can't afford to pay your guys a lot, especially considering the incredible amount of competition, illegals, and hacks. Just the other day someone outbid me by half the price... and I thought my price was low! I imagine a lot of groundies must get paid 8 per hour cash for their bosses to bid like that.

I am definitely thankful for the job I have. I run a small outfit with relatively small expenses. I can't imagine having to pay a large crew to work all week in this kind of economy. Hats off to you guys!

 

[DangerTree]

Up here in the Shuswap the labor pool is the pits. I have a hard time hiring green guys at $20 an hour! Not kidding and they complain it's not enough!! I have to babysit at $20 bucks an hour and watch them break my stuff. I keep asking for the same things over and over " don't go under the tree when you here me cutting you dummy" and stop talking to the client and start dragging branches for the last time!!! You pot smokin hippie get off the crack pipe and put down that beer pleez fill my saw. You would not have a dull saw if you would just stop cutting that rock sparky!! Just get another chain on your way to the crack pipe.

 

[sgreanbeans]

Up here in the Shuswap the labor pool is the pits. I have a hard time hiring green guys at $20 an hour! Not kidding and they complain it's not enough!! I have to babysit at $20 bucks an hour and watch them break my stuff. I keep asking for the same things over and over " don't go under the tree when you here me cutting you dummy" and stop talking to the client and start dragging branches for the last time!!! You pot smokin hippie get off the crack pipe and put down that beer pleez fill my saw. You would not have a dull saw if you would just stop cutting that rock sparky!! Just get another chain on your way to the crack pipe.

JEEZ!! and I thought I had problems! I feel pretty good after that! Talking to a kid today about coming on for a while, This is my problem, I dont need him to climb very much, but he wants to work, he says he dont care what he does, so I figure, if he wants to stick around and do ground work, not just be a hired gun, then he is gonna have to take a cut. I'm not gonna pay a climbers wage when he is grinding a stump. I think he will be good with it, as he wants hours, period. He don't care if he doesn't climb, just wants to work. So I am thinking 13-14 with at least 30 hours a week(winter), or the 20 as a gun a couple time a week

 

[TreEmergencyB]

I am in need of the money thats why i stay there for 13.50hr, its the comany i work for is the problem our 'lead' climber only makes 14hr and we run a 2 man crew 90% of the time. So im sure the owner is doing well considering we avg. about 1200/day easily with just the 2 of us. Really looking for a new company as i love tree work, but ima bout to take my wifes unlce up and the lineman thing for Allegheny power but im not sure if i need schooling b4 i can start that. From what ive heard tree co. just dont pay around here.

BTW im 24 with 5y exp. 3 climbing and im the best dam ground guy i know

 

[TreeAce]

Lego1970....groundmen dont have a morgtage . But they DEF have childsupport ! Around here atleast..groundies ethier live at home or with a women who is most likely on the system . Or simply with a room mate . It sounds like you have your act together and trying to make a comparision thats not accurate . Its ovb that someone with your bills can't work for 15 . I know of lots of people who would jump at the chance to make 15 n hour. Most of these people have spent YEARS making a wreck of there life . I do know of some young guys who live at home (good place for em for now) and and are good workers and will raise above 10-15 hour range in due time . As long as they make good life choices . Or atleast stay away from some OBV bad choices like getting DWI and smokin to much dope.

 

[arborsoldier]

Here is my expenses per month. I'm not saying your wrong or right but just to break it down. Keep in mind, my p/u truck is paid off, my house is a clean and comfy but very small two bedroom house. No cable, no gas bill. My phone and internet is high but that's because I mostly truck and therefore need unlimitted services. Electric is monthly average for the year. Health insurance is a very crappy with extremely high deductible. Child support is $434, but then she pays health and dental insurance which is about $200, so again if I didn't have to pay child support but had to pay health insurance that would only save me $234 per month. A lot of expenses, I've forgot or didn't include.

Mortgage, w/property tax and insurance, $696
Child Support $434
Health Insurance $189
Phone and internet $169
Electric $150
Water $35
p/u truck insurance $63
Food $280
Gas $400
Son's lunch money $50
Son's clothes, toys, misc school activities, $100
My clothes, gloves, boots, t-shirts $30

Total, $2596.00

$15 per hour at an average of 40 hours per week without even paying taxes
$2400.00

So before I even take out taxes, I'm -$196 in the hole. With taxes (about 27% for me) I'm already -$844 in the hole.

Again that doesn't inculde everyday issues like, furnace breaks down, kid gets sick, room needs new paint, microwave quits working, truck needs a new tire, etc, etc.

Then most (not all) of the tree companies want you to supply your own chainsaws, saddles, ropes, or get to use some unknown beat up nicked to death old rope of theirs.

$15 per hour seems great when you started out so low, but in today's world and living standards, that's not really that much. I started out around $3.95 an hour (not doing tree work) but I was still living with my folks. That was about mid, late 80's. If a guy is still living with his folks then yes $15 per hour is great, but if he ain't, he's screwed.

I will say this and then I'll shut up. When I take a job, I always try to give it my best and it does irk me when I see some greenhorn groundsmand and even supposed tree climbers leaning on tree or talking to his girlfriend while I'm up in the tree needing something. Having said that, sometimes I've gotten frustrated and gave up. As I get a little older (not old, I'm only 39 but just a little older then most of the guys I end up working with) I question why I still do tree work, as there is no retirement package and most the times (if I'm working for somebody else) I'm working my @ss off so the boss can live in a $300k home with a goodlooking wife, lake house, boat, etc, etc. I swear some of the boss's I've worked for would ask me to literaly wipe their @ss if they thought they could legally get away with it. Maybe even make my 8 year old son their slave....if they thought they could get away with it. Most of the tree work I do anymore is by myself, besides I'm not fast enough in a tree to keep up with most tree companies, although I can out drag most guys in their early 20's no problem.

Ok, sorry I'm rambling now.

WOW!!! You only pay $434 for Child Support? Lucky!!!! I pay $600!!! LOL but true.

All kidding aside, great start of a thread Jefflovestrom!!! I agree with many of you. The youth coming through the door do have high expectations of their worth. We recently started a guy with "some" climbing experience and an actual valid drivers license. More often than not, that is a tough thing to get.

Let's face it, it is an employers market right now. And I happen to be one of them. I make the hire and fire decisions for where I work, unfortunately we have been in Layoff mode as of lately. We are still running with 4 three man crews with hopes of trudging through the winter with the leaned out crew.

As far as pay, I have seen it all over the spectrum. Some companies pay well while others right down the road do not. To all of you who feel you are under paid, keep your head up. Get as many qualifications as you can. Walking into an interview with a CDL, Certified Arborist and perhaps even a current CPR/FA and EHAP would make you a much more valuable prospect to me. If you are done learning, you are dead.

 

[TreeAce]

Bout 20 years ago I was sitten in a bar with the regulars after work and an old timer told me.."when I was your age I started tree work I hired on at 1.10 an hour!" I thought about that . At that time I was makin 10 because my climbing skills where comin along nicely,had a DL, and was already getten my feet wet with being a crew leader . Anyway...I politely asked this man( who I had a huge respect for) how much a beer cost in this very bar at that time ? He shrugged his shoulders and said 10 cents . "oh" is all I said . I had just paid 1.75 for a beer . Do the math on that one .

 

[OLYMPYC]

i just wish there was some logging up here in ohio....... id love to make $15/hr......... i agree with both sides on this, the owners wanna hire on at a lower wage b/c its more money they save, but i dont wanna work my butt off for $10/hr when gas prices are outragous, and the cost of living is insane any more,

i have no actual logging experiance, other then dropping massive trees just for us and other ppl that ask, so id take a job at $10/hr to start out w/ out thinking about it, but for ones that have done it, i can see why they would turn it down.........

i make $12.50/hr building truss's from the lumber you guys cut! i hate my job i really want to find something in the logging industry.