Top Saws For Ground Use Or Homeowners?

[coveredinsap]

It's all about leverage Sap. Put your hands on a tail handle saw, and they're far enough apart to afford you more leverage on the saw, and give you better control. Not just in a kickback situation, but in all situations. Now put your hands on a top handle saw, and you'll see how close they are to each other, and your leverage and control goes out the window (relatively speaking). The other consideration is comfort. The top handle saw puts your right wrist and an aggressive angle when cutting on the ground, whereas the tail model eases that angle, and makes sustained cutting much, much more comfortable.

The difference is significant Sap.

Jeff

No its not.

The 'leverage' that you speak of only comes into play if you have a dull chain and are trying to force the saw thru the cut. And the comfort 'wrist angle' is bs...that only applies if you are trying to stand behind the saw like you would with a rear-handle saw, instead of to the side of it as you do with a top-handle.

 

[belgian]

No its not.

The 'leverage' that you speak of only comes into play if you have a dull chain and are trying to force the saw thru the cut. And the comfort 'wrist angle' is bs...that only applies if you are trying to stand behind the saw like you would with a rear-handle saw, instead of to the side of it as you do with a top-handle.

Jef, although your explanation is very logical, there is really no value in argueing with Dr Sap. As mentioned in another thread : ask Sap anything, he will always know better :deadhorse: .

We have to give it to the guy : one has seldom witnessed an individual like Sap, who, being an expert in milling with a homy saw, knows better than then all arborists, loggers, dealers, etc. that enjoy this forum. He's so brilliant that he's made more friends on this forum in no time than any other legendary poster in the recent history. And while he's got the entire AS crew taking him for a serious ride for quite some time now, he's still devoted to continue to share his wisdom with us, entirely for free.

So please enjoy the ride... and :notrolls2:

 

[sawinredneck]

Jeff did a very good job, think of the fulcrum points Sap. The left hand is the "roller" and the right hand is the "lever" and the bar is "load". Moving you're right hand closer shortens the lever, and therfore the leverage becomes less. That is on the cutting side, now on the kick back side you loose control over the saw more easily due to the lack of leverage available to hold the saw down.
Andy

 

[coveredinsap]

Jef, although your explanation is very logical, there is really no value in argueing with Dr Sap. As mentioned in another thread : ask Sap anything, he will always know better :deadhorse: .

We have to give it to the guy : one has seldom witnessed an individual like Sap, who, being an expert in milling with a homy saw, knows better than then all arborists, loggers, dealers, etc. that enjoy this forum. He's so brilliant that he's made more friends on this forum in no time than any other legendary poster in the recent history. And while he's got the entire AS crew taking him for a serious ride for quite some time now, he's still devoted to continue to share his wisdom with us, entirely for free.

So please enjoy the ride... and :notrolls2:

Yes, the Dr is in.

Besides, wtf do you know....you're from Belgium for christ's sake. The only thing worth a dam that I've seen coming from Belgium is chocolates and Hercule Poirot.

 

[clearance]

Sap, have you ever used a top handle saw like an ms 200? Or are you just beaking off about chainsaws like before?

 

[coveredinsap]

Sap, have you ever used a top handle saw like an ms 200? Or are you just beaking off about chainsaws like before?

Dude...if it's been made then I've cut wood with it.

And...."beaking off"???? Is that a Canadian term? Sort of like "a"?

 

[clearance]

Dude...if it's been made then I've cut wood with it.

And...."beaking off"???? Is that a Canadian term? Sort of like "a"?

Sap, you told us before you had two saws, a 455 and a 390 I believe, now you are saying if it has been made you have cut wood with it, hmmmm. Sap, we are talking about big wood, not 2x4s or 2x10s, understand, trees. Not cut with skilsaws, which I would believe you have used many of, B&D, Makita, Porter Cable, Milwaukee etc. This is about chainsaws, you are starting out, just learning, a student. Next you'll be telling us how to fall big wood, I suspect. Have you been up on a sidehill tipping over big firs with a 394/066 type saw? Ever climbed with any saw? Beaking off, I am not sure where it comes from, perhaps Winston Churchill "When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber" - Quote.

 

[belgian]

Yes, the Dr is in.

Besides, wtf do you know....you're from Belgium for christ's sake. The only thing worth a dam that I've seen coming from Belgium is chocolates and Hercule Poirot.

Wow, I'm becoming his frend now.
Yes, Belgians don't know anything of course. We drink beer and eat chocolate all day, and read Poirot when we have some time left :hmm3grin2orange:

Dit it occur to you that I own a MS200 (rear handle version) and cut some wood from time to time ? I also use more than one saw like you. No professional for sure, that's why I read here more then talk, just to learn something from people who cut wood for a living.
Something you should think about... , rather than talking out of your @ss all the time.

I just caught myself feeding the trolls now.

 

[coveredinsap]

Sap, you told us before you had two saws, a 455 and a 390 I believe, now you are saying if it has been made you have cut wood with it, hmmmm. Sap, we are talking about big wood, not 2x4s or 2x10s, understand, trees. Not cut with skilsaws, which I would believe you have used many of, B&D, Makita, Porter Cable, Milwaukee etc. This is about chainsaws, you are starting out, just learning, a student. Next you'll be telling us how to fall big wood, I suspect. Have you been up on a sidehill tipping over big firs with a 394/066 type saw? Ever climbed with any saw? Beaking off, I am not sure where it comes from, perhaps Winston Churchill "When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber" - Quote.

No, I haven't dropped huge trees. (I do have a few on my lot though. In fact there's a huge redwood and a huge Monterey Pine I can step out my back door and hit with a rock.)
I have, however, climbed them, cut them while climbing them, made all sorts of corbels and beams from them, milled them into all sorts of configurations, and used everything from chainsaws to beamsaws and everything in between on them. And I've lived on wooded lots my entire life, which required/requires taking care of them.
LOL! If I'm a 'student' then you're from Jamaica.

Simply because I haven't been a chainsaw 'connoisseur' like those around here doesn't mean that I haven't owned chainsaws and used them for many years...starting back in the mid '70's. Little did I realize there was an entire subculture of chainsaw snobs.

To get back on topic...Are top handled chainsaws 'dangerous'? Sure they are. All chainsaws are. Are they radically more dangerous then regular chainsaws? No. They only avail themselves of boneheaded misuse more easily because of their configuration, that's all.

 

[clearance]

Sap, you have been around chainsaws like I have been around stoves and washing machines, I can hardly use them cause my women always have, so really I know little about them. If you actually knew anything worthwhile you would have never bought a 390, and would not have used it for milling, or a 455. It is not snobbery, it is about the right tool for the job, I always have a good saw in my hands, XP or Stihl pro, never junk or even good homeowner stuff. Why can you not accept your lack of knowledge and just sit back and learn, again, have you ever used a top handled saw?

 

[coveredinsap]

Sap, you have been around chainsaws like I have been around stoves and washing machines, I can hardly use them cause my women always have, so really I know little about them. If you actually knew anything worthwhile you would have never bought a 390, and would not have used it for milling, or a 455. It is not snobbery, it is about the right tool for the job, I always have a good saw in my hands, XP or Stihl pro, never junk or even good homeowner stuff. Why can you not accept your lack of knowledge and just sit back and learn, again, have you ever used a top handled saw?

Dude, don't be a chainsaw snob. (Note that I didn't say 'tool' like I was going to ) Your statement of "I only use pro blah blah blah..." shows that you don't actually "know what you're doing", but instead follow the advice of the other chainsaw snobs hereabouts.
I've got a 'homeowner' 38cc green Poulan that is 8+ years old and I've put that saw thru hell...and it keeps on going and going. Most recently I've been using it off and on for the past week to dig out a huge liquidambar stump...sawing thru dirt encrusted roots...and the saw eats it up. That's got to be the best $99 I've ever spent on a saw.
In essence all that you do by dissing 'homeowner' chainsaws is prove that you're a chainsaw snob, and you just follow along like all the other chainsaw snob sheep. In other words, unless you're using that pro saw for 8 hrs a day, 7 days a week, 50 weeks a year, year after year....you've just wasted your money. Because it sure doesn't cut any better cc for cc than my $99 Poulan or any other homeowner saw. Jesus...you'd think you guys drive Lexuses and your sh*t doesn't stink, for christ's sake. LOL!

And as for the 455 Rancher...I needed a saw to mill one cedar tree, not mill a whole forest. The saw did the job...and now it will continue to do it's job as a ranch saw...which is exactly why I bought it. Now, as painfull as it may be for you 'pro' types to realize...simply buying a pro saw doesn't make you a pro, it just makes you a snob.

Yes, I've used climbing saws before. Most recently I just used one last weekend that I picked up in a garage sale...a power mac 6. Nice old little saw too. And I used it to limb on the ground too :0

 

[Monkeyhanger]

And this applies to adults, right? Thank goodness that we haven't slipped that far yet here in the US. I cannot imagine having to ask somebody's permission or take a class to buy a chainsaw.

Hi,

don't forget that the UK has developed into a "nanny state" and therefore can't trust its citizens with things which might be dangerous or trust them not to injure themselves! Then again looking at the state of the health care services there that may not be such a bad thing after all!

I don't know if I would be allowed to buy such a top handled saw in the UK although I was taught how to "remove" trees in the army (with an axe, chainsaw or explosives)!

Bloody nanny state...

Grrrr....

Bye

 

[clearance]

Dude, don't be a chainsaw snob. (Note that I didn't say 'tool' like I was going to ) Your statement of "I only use pro blah blah blah..." shows that you don't actually "know what you're doing", but instead follow the advice of the other chainsaw snobs hereabouts.
I've got a 'homeowner' 38cc green Poulan that is 8+ years old and I've put that saw thru hell...and it keeps on going and going. Most recently I've been using it off and on for the past week to dig out a huge liquidambar stump...sawing thru dirt encrusted roots...and the saw eats it up. That's got to be the best $99 I've ever spent on a saw.
In essence all that you do by dissing 'homeowner' chainsaws is prove that you're a chainsaw snob, and you just follow along like all the other chainsaw snob sheep. In other words, unless you're using that pro saw for 8 hrs a day, 7 days a week, 50 weeks a year, year after year....you've just wasted your money. Because it sure doesn't cut any better cc for cc than my $99 Poulan or any other homeowner saw. Jesus...you'd think you guys drive Lexuses and your sh*t doesn't stink, for christ's sake. LOL!

And as for the 455 Rancher...I needed a saw to mill one cedar tree, not mill a whole forest. The saw did the job...and now it will continue to do it's job as a ranch saw...which is exactly why I bought it. Now, as painfull as it may be for you 'pro' types to realize...simply buying a pro saw doesn't make you a pro, it just makes you a snob.

Yes, I've used climbing saws before. Most recently I just used one last weekend that I picked up in a garage sale...a power mac 6. Nice old little saw too. And I used it to limb on the ground too :0

How could I possibly argue with or dispute this brilliant logic, I am awed and stand corrected. I shall dispose of my ms 200 and my 371xp and go out and buy some Poulans or a similar make for they are just as good but cheaper. Sorry to ever question your intelligence and technical knowledge, I am not worthy.

 

[rbtree]

No its not.

The 'leverage' that you speak of only comes into play if you have a dull chain and are trying to force the saw thru the cut. And the comfort 'wrist angle' is bs...that only applies if you are trying to stand behind the saw like you would with a rear-handle saw, instead of to the side of it as you do with a top-handle.

Dead wrong...you, my friend, are a know nothing neophyte who should keep his big mouth shut till he learns a few things....

There, I've finally joined the merry fray and said something to the sappy one.....

 

[04ultra]

Dead wrong...you, my friend, are a know nothing neophyte who should keep his big mouth shut till he learns a few things....

There, I've finally joined the merry fray and said something to the sappy one.....

RB Welcome aboard..Tread lightly ol-sappy has his masters in bater..

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

...like I have been around stoves and washing machines, I can hardly use them cause my women always have...

LMFAO! That may just be the best post ever put up in cyber space!!!

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Dead wrong...you, my friend, are a know nothing neophyte who should keep his big mouth shut till he learns a few things....

There, I've finally joined the merry fray and said something to the sappy one.....

Thanks Roger. Glad to have someone as yourself agreeing that Sap is wrong about his top handle analysis.

I read Sap's reply, and wondered to myself, "has Sap ever held a top handle, let alone used one?" He's obviously never used one on the ground, because then he'd know that you have to stand directly over the saw to hold it comfortably. And if Andy (sawinredneck) hadn't so eloquently and perfectly explained the physics behind it all, I was about to. But he's taken care of that, though it'll fall on Sap's deaf ears. He only asked that question about danger in the first place so we could answer and he could tell us how wrong we all are.

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

In essence all that you do by dissing 'homeowner' chainsaws is prove that you're a chainsaw snob, and you just follow along like all the other chainsaw snob sheep.

Nope, it show's he's a professional who relies on his saws to make his living, and a 390 and a 455 (though fine homeowner saws) just won't cut it. It proves that he knows what he's looking for in a saw and what it needs to do for him.

...unless you're using that pro saw for 8 hrs a day, 7 days a week, 50 weeks a year, year after year....you've just wasted your money. Because it sure doesn't cut any better cc for cc than my $99 Poulan or any other homeowner saw.....Now, as painfull as it may be for you 'pro' types to realize...simply buying a pro saw doesn't make you a pro, it just makes you a snob.

Sap, after a statement like that about cc for cc cutting, you just lost any small semblance of credibility you may have been clinging to. Put an MS 310 (59.0cc) or an MS 390 (64cc) against a 361 (59cc) and see how the cc for cc cutting stacks up. Night and day! The 361 will smoke check either of those respectable homeowner saws. And it'll do it with less vibe, a more nimber power band and weigh less to boot! Nothing against the 290 series of saw, or any other homeowner saw. I've posted time and again that they're ideal in their intended roles, and I mean that. They're fine saws. It's when someone tries to mill with a 390 or fall timber with a 455 that they fall short. And we're comparing the 361 to two very nice Stihl homeowner saws...we've not even gotten into Poulans and Macs!

That statement above shows that you're the one who's being fooled, and that your utter lack of experience is glaringly eveident by the fact that you made the statement in the first place!

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

Dude...if it's been made then I've cut wood with it.

The above ridiculous statement has me thinking...

:notrolls2:

 

[fishhuntcutwood]

By the way, Big Jay, I'm sorry your thread got derailed. If you want to talk top handles, feel free to PM or email any of us who've actually used them.

Seriously, hope we didn't discourage you in your quest for an answer.

Jeff