ur opinion pls

[treevet]

Thanks Ekka for such a thoughtful and researched post. I think it is important to note that the TPZ is adjustable in accordance with monitoring.

In passing I found an article about the University of Texas, a campus known for its stately oaks and glorious canopies. In 1863 it is fabled that during the War Between the States an overzealous officer named John Magruder ordered his garrison to march up College Hill and chop down every ancient tree that covered it and use the wood to fortify the capitol. Only 3 trees survived and these are known as the Battle Oaks, left so shade could be found from the oppressing sun for the troops.

Over the decades mistreatments were noted along with natural stresses and strains. There were many advocates and "arborists" to perpetuate the historic trees though.

It was, according to the article that around 1970 a fellow named Mcginnis, tired of a favorite oak that had bore the marks of repeated blows by a delivery truck pitched the idea of the critical root zone/tree protection zone.
One foot in diameter for every inch in the tree's girth. (note that back in that era the root zone was thought to be much smaller in dia. than it is known to be now).

The CRZ quickly caught on and it became the standard for operating procedure in cases where trees and concrete meet. (excerpted from Tim Taliaferro's article "The war of the Trees"

 

[Ekka]

Hats off to McGinnis then.

Dave, adjusting that TPZ (thanks Sean for the diagram, I pilfered it and remodelled a little) is easy on paper but tougher in reality, you have the house, that path there and it takes time for roots to grow and establish.

What about a hit of cambistat, getting some mulch down and a mychorrizal treatment for starters?

 

[StihlRockin']

Haven't read the other replies, but seems to me you're a one-man-crusade here. No one cares like yourself and if the HO isn't willing a law suit, then you're on your own.

If it were me and I had the passion to try and make an attempt at making some serious alterations to the construction plans, I'd get the public involved as well as the press. I'd contact all the people on the street and every near by neighbor, then contact several press and educate all these people to let them know there ARE alternatives.

In the event any "politician" in the decision making process starts to feel the heat, maybe they'll bend a little and try to do things differently?

Good luck!

StihlRockin'

 

[brnchbrkr]

In the event any "politician" in the decision making process starts to feel the heat, maybe they'll bend a little and try to do things differently?



StihlRockin'

 

[outofmytree]

Dave have you estimated the dollar value of this tree as it is? If you havent then do so and then call your local conservativie newspaper. Explain that you have a story about the city wasting (insert tree value) dollars because they are too lazy to work around this valuable asset. Give the newspaper a simple, easy to understand explanation of why the citys action is unnecessary and short sighted. Talk about the carbon reducing value of mature trees in a fashion that the average person can understand. I like the simple, "this tree absorbs as much CO2 as (x) cars produce in 1 year. You said there are many more trees under threat for the same reason. How about a gross estimate of the value of all of these trees. It would be in to the millions. How about a headline like "Eco Vandal City Hall Wastes Millions Killing Heritage Trees".

Best of luck mate. Remeber even though there is no money in this job, the value in being the arborist that told the truth and didnt put money ahead of principle will pay dividends. Good people hire good people.

 

[treevet]

Hats off to McGinnis then.

Dave, adjusting that TPZ (thanks Sean for the diagram, I pilfered it and remodelled a little) is easy on paper but tougher in reality, you have the house, that path there and it takes time for roots to grow and establish.

What about a hit of cambistat, getting some mulch down and a mychorrizal treatment for starters?

The report is in the can so to speak. I finished the text at about 4 am this morning, got a couple of hours of sleep, woke up and printed the photos, made copies and distributed them to be there prior to the city council's meeting tonight.

I used some of your input Ekka. Tonight is the city council meeting and the Home owner is going to raise some hell. She has submitted a couple of very poignant letters and I am proud of her. We will see where this heads in the following days and weeks. Cambistat and beneficial fungi may be tools later if the city alters their plans and doesn't sever major roots in the SRZ.

Hey, I can hammer down trees with the best of em but there is always a reason as in structure and or health. In the past when a historical aged tree was IMO a candidate for removal I used to always call them (city) and ask them to give input. Never got a response so I gave up. Either they trust my opinion or they do not want the liability involved with input. Either reason gives the same outcome.

It is nice to spare a tree sometimes when given the op. The city Public Works Director actually told the homeowner to call me when she had concerns about their actions in regards to her tree. After she involved me, the Public Works Dir. asked me to compose a report and knew it was in contradiction to their plans as he knew I would be in favor of preservation. This is to his credit.

 

[treevet]

Dave have you estimated the dollar value of this tree as it is? If you havent then do so and then call your local conservativie newspaper. Explain that you have a story about the city wasting (insert tree value) dollars because they are too lazy to work around this valuable asset. Give the newspaper a simple, easy to understand explanation of why the citys action is unnecessary and short sighted. Talk about the carbon reducing value of mature trees in a fashion that the average person can understand. I like the simple, "this tree absorbs as much CO2 as (x) cars produce in 1 year. You said there are many more trees under threat for the same reason. How about a gross estimate of the value of all of these trees. It would be in to the millions. How about a headline like "Eco Vandal City Hall Wastes Millions Killing Heritage Trees".

Best of luck mate. Remeber even though there is no money in this job, the value in being the arborist that told the truth and didnt put money ahead of principle will pay dividends. Good people hire good people.

The appraisal and the press (I have multiple contacts) may come later. I am not on my own by any means. Lots of people are watching this.

They deserve a chance to "do the right thing" on their own and they attend city UFB meetings and they do care. Sometimes in the heat of the battle you lose sight of things.

PS....You are good people too (even tho a little nutty :hmm3grin2orange

 

[pinoakHO]

Update on my Pin Oak

Well almost two weeks have passed since the city council meeting. The subject of my oak tree, the streetwidening, and potential damage was not brought up of course - so I spoke to the subject. Being as calm and polite as possible, I described the situation and my views. Their informed and carefully considered response was that if I had read the city budget for the past three years I would have known this was going to happen, and I was dismissed. So much for the rights of homeowners/taxpayers.

I wrote to the Foresty Board, but at the council meeting they had nothing to say, and I had mistakenly thought they would. I tried to get input from neighbors, to no avail, even asked some of them to attend the council meeting.

No more work has been done in the immediate root zone, and I have been told by the PW Director that they are going to "air trim" the roots when they expose them ( I think this simply means blowing the dirt away). And then they will just cover them over with a type of manufactured product (like soil) that will allow more oxygen to reach the roots. According to the PW this will protect the tree - sounds to me like a half-way measure to try and cover themselves if and when the tree dies. I've contacted my attorney, but don't have the money to go to court to try to get any legal action to protect my tree.

Complicating the matter, I have to leave for a month because I have 3 granddaughters graduating in CA & FL, so I won't be here to watch over what ever is done. I do have someone who will take pictures during my absence.

I have read everyone's posts, and do very much appreciate the interest you have shown in the plight of the tree. I guess only time will tell. Please also note my appreciation to TreeVet who has championed the tree!!

 

[treevet]

I visited the site today to observe the leaf development as Pin oaks have broken buds a week or so ago and the tree is in line with other Pin oaks within eye sight in its development of leaf surface including ones of nearly identical size.

Interesting development....I don't claim any expertise in law but have read Lew Bloch and Vic Merullo.

Seems the city has recently staked a wooden flagged marker that assumes ownership including some of the tree trunk. One would assume an advantage to that survey for the city however that may not be so.

Whereas it is questionable whether they can destroy roots in their right of way of a privately owned tree, now with the assumption of "JOINT OWNERSHIP" they may fall under more stringent control (if applicable or one law does not "trump" another one)....

From Lew Bloch's "Tree Law Cases", Page 15, Chap 1 "Boundary and Border Line Trees"....."A Boundary Line Tree" is one with a property line going through any part of the trunk".

In many cases (in chapter 1) such as "Weisel v Hobbs et al" (1940) The Supreme Court of Nebrasks stated that ...........,Similarly, a tree whose trunk straddles a boundary line is the common property of both landowners, and as such, neither can destroy the tree without the consent of the other."

 

[brnchbrkr]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:jawdrop:

 

[asthesun]

Last week got a call from a client I worked 1 time for in Sept. Seems the city, my city is re doing a street that runs right next to the oak I worked on doing what I call "triage" after the hurricane that blew through here. Removed some large snapped limbs over a traffic area for safety, later to come back in leaf and prune the tree.

The tree is a 51" DBH Pin oak (Quercus palustris). They are to put a sidewalk about 8 feet from the base that will go 12" deep and 5' wide. 12 feet from the tree goes a curb that will be excavated 18" and beyond that the road gets excavated 12" or more. They will likely kill this tree. I estimate the CRZ Critical Root Zone at approx. 38 feet.

Mon. morning at 9 am 3 reps from the city are there along with the HO's, some tree advocates, myself as the CA for the tree and a city sponsored CA and another UFB member I called to be a witness.

Upon my making it verbally clear for all to recognize that there was nothing they could do to mitigate the damage they were to put on this oak they began to take the track to impugn the health of this 120' genetic icon.

I was having none of that and all began to get emotional.

When all the smoke cleared it was obvious that we were all there to just show the city accomodated the HO's and tree's side. But in reality what they were doing was covering their a$$ for worries of future law suit.

To the tree's distinct disadvantage, it is dormant and the project is started already at the other end of the street and will be there in 2 weeks.

I announced that if someone was going to build a pool on their property it would be fine to trim the neighbor's trees and even cut roots as long as it didn't (did not) compromise the health of the tree. I asked the public works director, wasn't he concerned with being in this same situation? His reply was "is this really the situation?" with a wry smile.

We have considered going to the newspaper, green advocates, civil groups such as ACLU, etc. Any opinions on the proper moves or is there none and you "cannot fight city hall"?

do hurricanes come to ohio?

 

[treevet]

Our city did last Sept. Sustained 80 mph winds, roofs and trees torn down, virtually every street blocked, lost elect for 8 days. We took about a dozen trees embedded in houses off them and there were hundreds and hundreds of other ones on houses, and thousands down and destroyed throughout the city.View attachment 97614