Wedge Stacking?

[bitzer]

Here's that tree/stump

So you have to cut them out then? In that instance the bottom two wedges did nothing. If the wood alongside them doesn't break, wheres the lift?

 

[bitzer]

this was a tough and rough day at 100degs. with 70% humidity... no power with the hyd for the lift to roll an pile logs except old man power? kinda got a good feel for the ole timers and their toils with tough conditions.... we are so lucky today !lol

Its fun to do **** the hard way sometimes.

 

[KiwiBro]

So you have to cut them out then? In that instance the bottom two wedges did nothing. If the wood alongside them doesn't break, wheres the lift?

Didn't have much backlean, didn't need much lift. Tree was used, to photograph the method, in the absence of a convenient heavy leaner.

Pretty sure if he needed more lift, he would have been able to get it and the wood in each of those lifts would have broken free of the tree in the process. Using this cut on such a sized tree here during an assessment would likely never result in gaining a felling ticket.

 

[treeslayer2003]

why is it, we always see these examples used on pecker poles? if its so great, why don't we see pics of it on big stems?

 

[Gologit]

why is it, we always see these examples used on pecker poles? if its so great, why don't we see pics of it on big stems?

Because it would be a disaster?

 

[KiwiBro]

why is it, we always see these examples used on pecker poles? if its so great, why don't we see pics of it on big stems?

Hmmm, I double dare Gypo Logger. Extra points for multiple wedge stacks.

 

[treeslayer2003]

Because it would be a disaster?

very likely

Hmmm, I double dare Gyppo Logger. Extra points for multiple wedge stacks.

ha ha ha

 

[northmanlogging]

why is it, we always see these examples used on pecker poles? if its so great, why don't we see pics of it on big stems?

because someone would have to iron out a hard hat and then find gainful employment.

As far as getting ANSI to require roping tree... well ANSI requires chaps, and safety glasses, I own neither.

 

[Bwildered]

Well you don't stack wedges without another wedge making room. And yes they sometimes do pop out, but not with any king of bone smashing force, maybe a bruise, but bruises we're used too. When they do pop out there is the other set of wedges already tightened up, they really only pop out when getting started.

Bore cutting is inherently dangerous, anytime you use the tip you risk a kick back, kick backs can maim or kill, so how the **** is that safer?

Not to mention boring into it you don't really know how far you've gone so you could be cutting away the all important hinge wood without even knowing it. or worse you haven't gone deep enough and the wedges will stall out and you spend an hour trying to move a tree with wedges that can't go anywhere.

Also when exactly are you supposed to start this stacking, cause I'd like to see these yahoos try and bore under a started wedge, or better yet get 2 going and make a third hole. I carry extra bars in the Crummy, and extra saws, but I don't carry that many of them.

Rather than just knocking the method I'm just looking at the pluses & minuses of it, the pluses are you need to carry & use less wedges, they are less likely to fly out, they can't be driven skewif because they're captivated in a slot, there is less chance of the tree sitting back down & breaking the hinge.
The minuses are you have to do another couple of bore cuts of adequate depth that an experienced faller should be capable of doing repeatedly, you have to be able to gauge how much lift is needed before starting as another bore cut once loaded is not an option, training experienced fellers in a different method.
Fanks

 

[Gypo Logger]

View attachment 478280 I've stacked wedges a few times, but what happens when they won't lift enough to commit the tree, even though the tree is commited to the direction of fall? Two choices, blast thru all remaining holding wood and let the chips fall where they may, or just refall and rewedge uncooperative stupid tree. Lol
All fine and dandy info, but tree size and species needs to be considered. Gravity comes to mind.View attachment 478280

 

[bitzer]

If the tree is leaning towards where you've aimed it and you still can't get it to fall you've got other problems. And constantly talking about "refalling" trees is not the way to go. Have I cut trees off the stump because they sat back and weren't coming back or the wind was blowing hard and they were going to split? Yes i have. I'm sure everyone has at some point. But putting a new face and new wedges in a tree is an ugly situation. You've already compromised the tree with your first cuts. You've said it so many times lately i had to say something. That and un-intentional dutchmans. Check to see if your face is clean before you back cut it. Pretty simple. Cocky or not John safety is number one in my book. Maybe you see my swing cuts and other bs i try as not safe, but my methods are effective 99% of the time. It took me a lot of practice to get there and i know my limits even though i tend to push them to learn new things.

 

[northmanlogging]

Rather than just knocking the method I'm just looking at the pluses & minuses of it, the pluses are you need to carry & use less wedges, they are less likely to fly out, they can't be driven skewif because they're captivated in a slot, there is less chance of the tree sitting back down & breaking the hinge.
The minuses are you have to do another couple of bore cuts of adequate depth that an experienced faller should be capable of doing repeatedly, you have to be able to gauge how much lift is needed before starting as another bore cut once loaded is not an option, training experienced fellers in a different method.
Fanks

I hear ya, its just that the pluses don't come near enough to make up for the minuses. Stacking wedges isn't something every Tom Rick and Larry should ever do, its fairly advanced crazyness. Compounding the problem with adding more bore cuts adds more variables to an already iffy situation. And like most things SSD/GOL related its unnecessarily complicated and wastes even more precious time. Time spent at the stump wacking wedges or messing with the back cut is time spent waiting for something to hit you in the head, once the back cut is started there is no stability in the tree, even with the goofy trigger ssd/gol crud, the ******* can and will go at anytime, trees fight back and they are sneaky fuckers.

I personally get nervous when I have to stack wedges as its more pressure on the hinge/hold wood, both flex and tension.

 

[madhatte]

like most things SSD/GOL related its unnecessarily complicated and wastes even more precious time.

This is exactly my concern. Time spent farting around under the tree is time I could get whacked by that tree, especially if I'm already tired from pounding wedges. If I can swing it so that gravity does some or all of the work for me, I'm already gone before anything dangerous happens.

 

[bitzer]

How exactly do you have to carry less wedges around? Three pretty much gets the job done. One to open, two to stack. Unless its big timber. When stacking wedges the entire taper of the wedge has contact with the tree. With the bored stack only a very small amount of wood is touching the wedge. Think about it. The wedge is being driven straight. It would be like sandwiching a wedge between 2x4s. How much of the wedge (which is supporting enormous pressure) is actually contacting the wood ? Wedges have a taper for a reason and this method is negating that. Thats aside from the fact it is a ridiculous waste of time. Trying to re-invent the wheel.

 

[user 139871]

What is meant by SSD and GOL? Research was not helpful.

 

[Bwildered]

How exactly do you have to carry less wedges around? Three pretty much gets the job done. One to open, two to stack. Unless its big timber. When stacking wedges the entire taper of the wedge has contact with the tree. With the bored stack only a very small amount of wood is touching the wedge. Think about it. The wedge is being driven straight. It would be like sandwiching a wedge between 2x4s. How much of the wedge (which is supporting enormous pressure) is actually contacting the wood ? Wedges have a taper for a reason and this method is negating that. Thats aside from the fact it is a ridiculous waste of time. Trying to re-invent the wheel.

I'm only going off the posted pictures & explainations of backing up doubled up wedges which means an equal amount in reserve to stop the tree sitting back & possibly breaking the hinge. Plastic wedges aren't much good for lifting anything heavy anyway & with our HWDs they are as useless as an ashtray on a motorbike, that method with a single wedge is the recommended way to get small poles down against the lean. So far on the surface I'm seeing more positives than negatives.
Ta

 

[bitzer]

I'm only going off the posted pictures & explainations of backing up doubled up wedges which means an equal amount in reserve to stop the tree sitting back & possibly breaking the hinge. Plastic wedges aren't much good for lifting anything heavy anyway & with our HWDs they are as useless as an ashtray on a motorbike, that method with a single wedge is the recommended way to get small poles down against the lean. So far on the surface I'm seeing more positives than negatives.
Ta

So do you use metal falling wedges? Like the maggys? We've already been over how hard your hardwoods are. If a tree is cut up properly and a person is not trying to defy an insurmountable lean the basics of wedging apply to any tree. Its essentially replacing material you have removed by cutting as well as adding material to correct the lean of the tree until it tips. Making multiple kerfs below the back cut is removing more material that needs to be replaced. Therby making more work for the wedger. Hence the wedgie has the advantage and he has been known to kill.

 

[northmanlogging]

What is meant by SSD and GOL? Research was not helpful.

SSD=Swedish Stump Dance, GOL is Game of Logging, game of logging is a course folks are sometimes "required" to take in parts of the US in order to fall trees, SSD is an insult to GOL, because GOL involves a great deal of dancing around a stump in circles from one side to the other, and was "invented" in Sweden.

I'm only going off the posted pictures & explainations of backing up doubled up wedges which means an equal amount in reserve to stop the tree sitting back & possibly breaking the hinge. Plastic wedges aren't much good for lifting anything heavy anyway & with our HWDs they are as useless as an ashtray on a motorbike, that method with a single wedge is the recommended way to get small poles down against the lean. So far on the surface I'm seeing more positives than negatives.
Ta

Plastic isn't much good for lifting how? And like I said before you back up stacked wedges with another wedge or another stack of wedges, sometimes a whole box of stacked wedges.

 

[Woos31]

If wedges can lift trees 10ft plus across the stump, then I'd say they can lift pretty hard. I'm sure the three wedges bored in and stacked in OP pic has advantages somewhere I don't comprehend, however as mentioned earlier that a lot of time at the stump beating your head in, beating stuff loose above you, and flat out melting wedges. Then when your all done you get to cut your wedges out if they ain't broke. Like I said I'm sure there's benefit I don't understand but also don't agree with the idea, there's a lot of other ways to get er done than having to chase that goose up a tree.
As for their ANSI ruling, I'd love to be a be on the landing when they brought that to attention at ANY logging job on the west coast.........OH man dat be a good show

 

[137cc]

How exactly do you have to carry less wedges around? Three pretty much gets the job done. One to open, two to stack. Unless its big timber. When stacking wedges the entire taper of the wedge has contact with the tree. With the bored stack only a very small amount of wood is touching the wedge. Think about it. The wedge is being driven straight. It would be like sandwiching a wedge between 2x4s. How much of the wedge (which is supporting enormous pressure) is actually contacting the wood ? Wedges have a taper for a reason and this method is negating that. Thats aside from the fact it is a ridiculous waste of time. Trying to re-invent the wheel.

Thanks, this is basically my same opinion on this stacking method. You explained its obvious shortfalls better than I could.

SSD=Swedish Stump Dance

That's hilarious, definitely gonna start using that term.