Woodmaster vs Central Boiler advice please

[windthrown]

Not so...

In a cold climate like MI forced air draft is very advantageous as your home will cool down while the boiler comes up to temp. The faster you can get the boiler up to temp the less chance this has of happening. Its not really a issue when its in the 20 at night, but when it drops down bellow zero its a major issue.
I would also make sure you size your circ pumps and heat exchangers on the conservative side.
As for insulated pipe. After trying the insulated pex type stuff that comes on a roll and insul-seal that come sin rigid 8 foot lengths the clear winner is insul-seal.

I beg to differ, but I have many friends in places like New Hampshire and Canada that have non-forced air damper OWBs and they do not allow the house to cool down between boiler draft cycles, even at 20 below zero. The heat stored in the water is more than enough to heat your house between cycles. Do not underestimate the energy of natural convection! Our flate place heat exchanger on our water heater has no pump and only uses natural convection, and the water in there stays really hot. It also gets into the teens around here... no cold house, and we have the smallest CB boiler that they had available, a large house, gobs of winows and vaulted ceilings. Outside temps are only a factor in the equation. Overall heat demand is the real issue. Compare an uninsulated house here vs a well insulated house in Michigan. Heat demand can be higher here even with higher temperatures.
Do not be fooled...

 

[porta mill]

for the extra money I think the power draft is the way to go but do some research , talk to pepole in your area to see what they use . before you buy something you are not happy with or will not meet your requirements. For insulation the stuff I used wasa 4"pvc with two inches of what seems to be a foam outer lotside then a plastic sheeting on the outside then the pex on the inside, expensive but buried 24"to 30 " below ground and there is no snow melt in the past I and I drove a tanker truck over it and did not have a problem

 

[MS-310]

We sell units that come with an 10 year warranty and 3/16 fire box thickness...timberwolfs are nat. draft and I really love them..plus you cant beat the price. Some thing that will heat 1500 to 1700 sqft for 3890...(thats even with a pump)

 

[bwalker]

The pex that you tried, was it the $12/ft foam no hassle insulated stuff?

Thats the stuff.

 

[bwalker]

I beg to differ, but I have many friends in places like New Hampshire and Canada that have non-forced air damper OWBs and they do not allow the house to cool down between boiler draft cycles, even at 20 below zero.

It depends on what type of heating system you have. With in floor lag time is a issue. Even with a forced draft boiler.

 

[bwalker]

BTW if it where I looking into buying a boiler today I would look long and hard at a wood doctor smokeless boiler. More and more townships are passing ordinances restricting boilers and some out right banning them. I live in a very rural area and my TWP is working on a boiler regs as we speak.

 

[HUSKYMAN]

We sell units that come with an 10 year warranty and 3/16 fire box thickness...timberwolfs are nat. draft and I really love them..plus you cant beat the price. Some thing that will heat 1500 to 1700 sqft for 3890...(thats even with a pump)

Don't forget I will be heating a 1500 sq ft barn and my hot water too...

 

[HUSKYMAN]

So other than having a fan that can fail someday what are the downsides to having a forced draft?

Increased wood consumption?

 

[grandpatractor]

If both my shed and house are calling for heat in the floors it will cool my stove off pretty quickly. There is a reason I put a programmable on the therm in the shed. I need to be around to keep filling wood it they are both going. I don't know if the stove would keep up without forced draft. it holds 300 gals of water. I also have a plate exchanger on the hot water and forced air for the upstairs in the house.
I like the way it looks when the coals are covering the air tubes and its like a forge going in there!

 

[grandpatractor]

So other than having a fan that can fail someday what are the downsides to having a forced draft?

Increased wood consumption?

I think it can cool off the stove quicker if you do run low on coals and its still blowin cold air in. all i can think of?

 

[Butch(OH)]

I haven't heard of insul-seal. The pex that you tried, was it the $12/ft foam no hassle insulated stuff?

Here is a picture. I am completely satisfied with it however it is not cheap. The other day we had a light snow that melted away in a couple days and you absolutely could not tell where my lines were buried to the house.

<IMG SRC=http://tinypic.com/24mxj01.jpg>

 

[HUSKYMAN]

Looks like you have the ash auger? I was thinking about not getting that feature. Looks like a good place for moist ashes to accumulate

 

[Butch(OH)]

Looks like you have the ash auger? I was thinking about not getting that feature. Looks like a good place for moist ashes to accumulate

Nope, no ash auger. All Woodmasters have the hole in the firebox for the auger. The auger was enough extra money, $400 I think, that I decided to give it a try without. Still am not sure, flat point and a coal bucket works well.

 

[bwalker]

I have a Heatmore with a auger and to be honest I find that you still need to shovel the ashes out by hand on a regular basis. I place some wire mesh over my wheelbarrow and just empty the contents of the boiler onto the mesh. the ash falls into the barrow and I shovel the coals and carbon back in to be burnt.

 

[windthrown]

OWB ashes

I have a Heatmore with a auger and to be honest I find that you still need to shovel the ashes out by hand on a regular basis. I place some wire mesh over my wheelbarrow and just empty the contents of the boiler onto the mesh. the ash falls into the barrow and I shovel the coals and carbon back in to be burnt.

I do the same thing here. I bought some hardware cloth (wire mesh) and stapled it to a wood frame that fits of the metal wheelbarrow. Then I shovel the ashes onto the mesh and screen out the coals. I toss them back into the fire to burn when I am done. I toss the ashes around the garden and trees.

 

[windthrown]

Draft in OWBs

So other than having a fan that can fail someday what are the downsides to having a forced draft?

Increased wood consumption?

The downside from people that I talked to over on the Mother Earth News Forum was that they tend to have problems with the draft. Either too much or too little. One issue with a forced air draft is that you are blowing a lot of hot air out of the stack when they are on. That in turn seems to use more wood as you speculate, yes.

 

[windthrown]

Nope...

It depends on what type of heating system you have. With in floor lag time is a issue. Even with a forced draft boiler.

I still have to disagree with you. Lag time is not an issue if you always have wood on your fire, regardless of heating system. If you let the fire go out, that is another issue. We have both a hot water heat exchanger and a pressurized hydronic floor heat exchanger here. Both are flat plate. Flat plate exchangers will recover heat faster than a side-arm system. The water heater HX runs with convection all the time. The floor system is triggered when the house gets below 69 F. The Taco pump comes on and circulates heated water in several loops below the house in a radiant floor system.

I do not know how other boilers work, but if I set our boiler temp to 165, it usually cycles between 150 and 170 F. It opens as 155 and often times drops to 154-150 by the time the fire kicks the heat back up. The lowest it gets at that point is 150 F. Then it shuts off at 165 and usually overshoots to 166-170 after the damper is closed. The boiler loop is always supplying the house with hot water in the lines through the Taco pump, which circulates 27/7. That loop does not lose more than a few degrees by the time it gets into the house. Boiler temp can get dragged down by heat demand in the house, but then the aquastat sensor just opens the damper more often, more wood is burned and the boiler water is heated to meet that demand.

No forced air draft is needed. The magic of convection (heat rises in gasses and liquids) is all that you need. If our heat demand ever exceeded the boiler here, I can always set the temp of the boiler water up higher. We do have milder winters here in Oregon, but 165 is the lowest setting that a CB water can be set to. I set the inside house temp at 70 F and it is never less than 69 in here. Ever. The hot water is always hot. No issues. If I needed more heat I could always set the boiler temp up higher. It will go as high as 195 F.

 

[bwalker]

The downside from people that I talked to over on the Mother Earth News Forum was that they tend to have problems with the draft. Either too much or too little. One issue with a forced air draft is that you are blowing a lot of hot air out of the stack when they are on. That in turn seems to use more wood as you speculate, yes.

that sounds like BS as everything I have heard says that forced draft boilers are more efficient.

 

[WoodBurner44]

Forced Draft

My Taylor 750 OWB needs the forced draft to burn. The little 'squirrel cage' fan is cycled on and off by a hydro stat in the water jacket and has an adjustable baffle that allows one to regulate the draft. Full open for a short time to get a fire started and then closed down just to the point that smoke forms a few inches from the top of the stack. That seems to give me the most efficient burn and allows me to burn wood that would not be considered good firewood.
This particular type of unit seems to heat best and produce the least amount of creosote when the fire is burned fairly hot and fast and then the draft fan shuts off until the water cools enough to start the fan again.
Another thing that helps save wood is to make an educated guess (based on your experience) and only load the amount of wood needed to keep the temp up for the time period until the next loading. Outside air temp, kind of wood and degree of seasoning are all variables that affect efficiency.
I too, use a square edged shovel to clean the firebox and also screen the ashes for coals to start the next load. Much easier than trying to use paper, etc to start the fire.
I have found that well seasoned (two years) hickory will give a 36 to 48 hour burn in cold weather and that half rotted junk woods give a four hour burn in the same kind of weather.
We probably use a little more wood heating with the OWB than the indoor stoves. But the advantages of burning wood of no value that needs to be cleaned up around the farm, unlimited domestic HOT water, and no dirt, ashes or smoke in the house make it my first choice.

 

[MS-310]

Don't forget I will be heating a 1500 sq ft barn and my hot water too...

We have bigger ones also....5000 7000 10,000 15,000

5000 is $4490
7000 is $5290
10,000 is $6800

The 7000 is a big stove a little bigger then the Cl5648.....they changed numbers from that now.
Lots of stuff to look at.... We like to be very good on price.
Any ??? Pm me.