Your opinion on the following: Proper etiquette when You break a borrowed saw.

[Pitt]

Nice shot there sir! I work leave and breath the LES. In fact, you will be surprised as to how many chain saws reside in the lower east side of Manhattan. Wonder what they all get used for?

Well I hope your post is sarcastic since I don't think I screwed up in any way. Well besides buying the big dumb saw. I just finished building a big block Chevy powered mini cooper, so now I have a ridiculous car to carry around my ridiculous chainsaw.. :deadhorse:

"SHTOOP" is not in Roget's either. 99 and 44/100 of those here have no idea what it is" says Professor...

Ha. I never really thought of that. To be honest, I was floored by the presidential pole that was posted here. Very interesting diversified group here actually. I came here thinking very differently then I do now.
lesson:
Shtooping actually means to push/shove and it is a slang term versed by Yiddish/ Jewish People meaning to have casual sex.. Like someone saying "I going out to get laid/ Ephe'd" <(Phonetic)
would turn into "you know that girl I went out with? well last night I shtooped her". Besides Pastrami, lawyers, fiddler on the Roof and Chopped liver, thank the Mysterious guy at that funny looking church you pass by for all those things plus Shtooping, Putz, Shmuck,shtik,shmo..meshugeh,klutz,bubeleh,mishmash,nosh,shlep and other terms you most likely use or hear.
I am not Jewish , but this is necessary knowledge for survival on either coast. Not unlike the ability to cook and hunt squirrel and opossum, track, camp and find wanter where you guys are.

 

[Steve128]

Spot On!

Someone before said that it's hard to put a price on friendship, but that's exactly what your pal did. And he determined that his and your's was worth less than the cost of a 880.

Besides, the simple fact that he did not even ruin the saw himself takes him out of the discussion with you on why it broke down. He can not know, cause he neglected to watch the borrowed item. He has to clear that with you, and the whole thing about wheater or not the saw was faulty is a discussion he can then run by his employee. But towards you he just have to pay up. What if the guy hadn't been using the saw, but stole it instead. Would that also have been your fault cause the saw was faulty?

He had a duty to care and maintain your equipment. Once he let someone else use it without your permission, he takes ALL THE RISK. He made a poor judgment call on loaning out equipment which was not his to loan out.

So like above, why or how it broke does not matter. He was not there. He loaned it out without your permission. He should pay.

You didn't need to defend yourself on why you have such a saw. Heck, this site is full of people with way more saws then they need. Me included!:jester:

 

[kah68]

opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: I had a situation when my nephew was borrowing my year old, hardly used, 345 on a weekly basis. I took a proactive approach and made him a sweet deal on the saw and just picked up a new 357xp today. I figured when the 345 breaks or needs attention he will get it fixed instead of putting it back where I keep it and say nothing because it's his own!

Kirk

 

[Pitt]

Well time to bump my thread and add to it with an update. My Saw shop of choice has still not gotten to the disembowelment or my big baby, so stay tuned for an estimate and hopefully pics.

Next was a message I got today from same said friend. WHEW! for those of you who inferenced that the buddyship was over no matter what, boy where you right.
Today, I got a message and it was not the voice of my old friend anymore. Oh well.

 

[pigsitter]

I "lost" most all of my "friends" when I quit loaning tools.I'd always been the if you need me I'm there guy.I've had tools returned completely destroyed or otherwise disfigured and when it came down to replacement the damage was either blown off or ignored! The worst insult is having to go repo something loaned to a "friend" and finding it in pieces when they graciously give it back.

Without a doubt your friend owes at least 50% on the bill for no other reason than it was in his possesion/control when it happened,in other words he may not have broke it but his guy did so he should try to make good on it!

I really hate borrowing stuff but when I do it always goes back better than when it left,normally that means a quick clean up as well as a little maintenance or sometimes I'll even make minor repairs that were needed when I borrowed the equipment just as a thank you!

Hope you and your friend get past this as it's a shame when a life long friendship goes sour over money.Been there done that and it ain't pretty!

 

[Richardcorio]

The guy who "broke the saw"

your fault. same as loaning money to a friend. every one gets let down give him money if you get it back even better. loan to someone you want to get rid of

I heard that line as you don't lend friends money you give them money that way you are pleasantly surprised if you get it back.I agree with you this does make life better. But I never heard your ending.I was sent on this site by the person who's saw I had. To read what people wrote.I am totally new to using a computer and I am 40 (no I am not Amish) so this is all new to me.But wow is this Normal.I have heard of people getting into big debates all over the country but I don't know what to think of myself being the topic.
I don't mean to make a joke of this. I will only tell you this. Most of the story was not true. I was holding a husky saw(just like I see in lowes) that I was told was a 80cc board out with a stil head by hot saw? He said to me this is basically the power of the yz 80 you had as a kid board out and in your hand and then He tells me to buy him a new ms 880 (121cc)without a bar or chain. I could go on and on,And The friendship should have ended a long time ago,but I will stop there. But I have to tell someone I am not a total jerk after reading all my hate mail.
This email took me 1 hr to write.Thanks for being my first????? what ever you call this.

 

[046]

your post is not very understandable.

let's see.. you borrowed and killed a husky (like you can buy at lowes) they your friend wants a new MS 880 w/o bar and chain to replace what's broken?

I heard that line as you don't lend friends money you give them money that way you are pleasantly surprised if you get it back.I agree with you this does make life better. But I never heard your ending.I was sent on this site by the person who's saw I had. To read what people wrote.I am totally new to using a computer and I am 40 (no I am not Amish) so this is all new to me.But wow is this Normal.I have heard of people getting into big debates all over the country but I don't know what to think of myself being the topic.
I don't mean to make a joke of this. I will only tell you this. Most of the story was not true. I was holding a husky saw(just like I see in lowes) that I was told was a 80cc board out with a stil head by hot saw? He said to me this is basically the power of the yz 80 you had as a kid board out and in your hand and then He tells me to buy him a new ms 880 (121cc)without a bar or chain. I could go on and on,And The friendship should have ended a long time ago,but I will stop there. But I have to tell someone I am not a total jerk after reading all my hate mail.
This email took me 1 hr to write.Thanks for being my first????? what ever you call this.

 

[lees trees]

usually 2 sides. dont worry I think your freind look irresponsible for loanning a hot saw to any one not to metion a rookie. did you borrow the computer? you guys can get past this mabe split the cost, try the high road

 

[Mitchell]

responcibility

I don't mean to make a joke of this. I will only tell you this. Most of the story was not true. I was holding a husky saw(just like I see in lowes) that I was told was a 80cc board out with a stil head by hot saw? He said to me this is basically the power of the yz 80 you had as a kid board out and in your hand and then He tells me to buy him a new ms 880 (121cc)without a bar or chain. I could go on and on,And The friendship should have ended a long time ago,but I will stop there. But I have to tell someone I am not a total jerk after reading all my hate mail.
This email took me 1 hr to write.Thanks for being my first????? what ever you call this.

Not jumping on you richard... why do you not feel some responcibility to repair/ replace a borrowed item.

 

[newguy18]

Tell me what you think Folks...
I have posted this in hopes of sending the link to my friend who borrowed and broke my saw..

The Story:
I went to help my friend dropl some trees. We are by no means seasoned at this being City boys; he just bought land that needs to be cleared.

I own only one tree, so being a motor head, I am eager to share my love of all things engine with my buddy bud, so I filled my truck with saws and head over.

The saw I brought over was a modified stihl motored MS 880 that had two tanks of gas run through it since new. ( its a out of warentee). So after helping friend for no more then 10 cuts, I say my goodbye's and leave him my saw to use. One week late, I get the call... He says that although he was watching over it, a day laborer he hired used the saw without his permission and somehow broke the saw. When I say broke, we mean BROKE! The piston or rod or wrist pin, whatever they have, let loose and came through the block.

The call came in as " I think I killed your saw, don't worry we will fix it" but the wording is unimportant until you read on...

So I laugh it off with "friend' and then even have him over to hang out and we laugh at his fumble. Well two weeks go by and he is searching for the parts that my repair guy needs to fix the saw. But when said friends realizes that the saw is big $$$$'s, the sentiment changes from "don't worry, we will get it fixed" to "anytime something is more then $500, I feel funny about it. That if the saw was $100 he wouldn't mind paying up. I then explained that if it were $100 I wouldn't mind either, in fact, I would have just paid for it myself, but its not.

He says that the saw was no doubt going to break regardless of who was using it, and that the saw was obviously either defective or improperly built (its a mid mod saw with open exhaust and ported intake)....

So the end result was that I said I felt that regardless of the circumstances, if I were in possession of one of his items and it got damaged, even damaged out of my control, that I would in fact replace the item no questions asked.
His take was this... "When you lend someone something that you trust, you are sure that they wouldn't purposefully treat the item carelessly and if in fact they do not abuse the item or experience an unusual circumstance, then they are in no way liable for the item borrowed". In fact, he felt that if the shoe were on the other foot, that he would think of "breakage" as part of the risk incurred when lending someone an item. (I feel this is insane! I feel that you should be very grateful that someone shares and gives to you and that you should reward them by at least treating their possessions with great care apposed to punishing them by retuning it to them broken)

He feels that as long as the borrower is properly using an item, not abusing it or being wreckless, there is no burden on the borrower to replace or in this case even repair the item. (This is against everything I believe in!)

Lastly, since the thing is modded, its a pretty penny to fix. Even before I knew he was going to balk at paying for the saw, I suggested that since it was mine, (and yes, it really shouldn't break so easily) I felt that I would split the repair with him 50/50. This to was not right according to him. He brought up a football game we attended that ended up with the boys having a pile on that resulted in him needing to see a doc for his back. He say, "Should I have charged you for the amount I paid for the doctor bills incurred, because you were on top of the pile?" (I again think this is insane!)

I work as a mechanic, my belief is this... If its in my possession, its my problem regardless. If I borrow your car and its damaged in a hail storm (an act of God that I cannot control) I owe you a paint job.
For Example, I had a vehicle in for a simple tune up. Upon removing the car from my repair bay, the transmission broke its reverse gear. Guess what? I stayed at work and repaired the trans for free. Now I am sure that I didn't do anything wrong, but it broke while in my care and custody. So I fixed it.

Oh, and this friend currently is in possession of an expensive bike of mine. When asked, he made me aware that if he cracked the frame while riding it normally, he would not expect to replace the bike frame. ( I have asked for the prompt return of the bikes in his possession!)

Before you all pile on, here is another hypothetical. Let say the saw wasn't new... Lets say you borrowed an 8 yr old saw or a 10 year old camera, both are no longer made and you broke it...Do you still replace the item? Do you offer full value to the owner or a partial? Its old so why pay for a new one?

:help:
Besides the advice to not loan tools out, what are your thoughts and what would you do if you were on either side of the coin.

He should pay at least half of the repair fee[including your normal hourly wages] if I borrow something from someone when I'm done with it I clean it up and the one time I borrowed a chainsaw I sharpened the chain and gave it a tune up.I treat other peoples stuff just like or better than my own.I pride myself in anything I fix for someone and I am also known to take really good care of the things I do borrow but on that note I don't borrow things that often because usually if I need it I buy it.

 

[Griffbm3]

So is this you???

Hello Mr. Pitt:
Sorry to hear about your saw, that is why I keep and maintain my old Olympik 254F, if my neighbors can't kill it, no one can. No one gets my good saws, but that's another story.

I was just on Ebay, and was wondering if this was you, Ebay item #260162198385. Just wondering how everything is going with the case. I read your friends email about it, seems a little fishy, hope it all works out in the end.


Jason

 

[lees trees]

before either of you get to mad I think its time to get all you stuff back and start over figure out every thing he broke and abused put a dollar amount on it and KEEP IT TO YOURSELF its gone don't forget. ain't fair just the way it is. I had a friend that I put in the sawmill business gave him logs, knowhow, and customers. even his name sawmill pete Helped him build his home. I figure 70 to 80k in good will. I knew he would return the favor. I asked for some lumber he said no I said think about it. next day he tells me he doesn't need anything from me any more. hit me hard had to laugh. piece of work pete

 

[Bermie]

I heard that line as you don't lend friends money you give them money that way you are pleasantly surprised if you get it back.I agree with you this does make life better. But I never heard your ending.I was sent on this site by the person who's saw I had. To read what people wrote.I am totally new to using a computer and I am 40 (no I am not Amish) so this is all new to me.But wow is this Normal.I have heard of people getting into big debates all over the country but I don't know what to think of myself being the topic.
I don't mean to make a joke of this. I will only tell you this. Most of the story was not true. I was holding a husky saw(just like I see in lowes) that I was told was a 80cc board out with a stil head by hot saw? He said to me this is basically the power of the yz 80 you had as a kid board out and in your hand and then He tells me to buy him a new ms 880 (121cc)without a bar or chain. I could go on and on,And The friendship should have ended a long time ago,but I will stop there. But I have to tell someone I am not a total jerk after reading all my hate mail.This email took me 1 hr to write.Thanks for being my first????? what ever you call this.

Ok, thanks for your side...it helps to balance the picture.

BUT...you borrowed it, you do have some duty to help him get back to having a working saw, it was working when he lent it to you.
If you guys have been friends for so long, meet somewhere, have a few beers, laugh about good times you've had together and come to a compromise on this issue, shake hands and move on.

Lessons for you both...
1. Don't lend anything you are not willing to see broken or never returned.
2. Don't borrow anything you are not willing to repair, replace or buy.