sperho
ArboristSite Operative
Eat crow and move on with respect, it's simple. A tree per minute 8 hours straight all day every day? :spam:
:monkey:
1/3 Diameter Notch Rule
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Eat crow and move on with respect, it's simple. A tree per minute 8 hours straight all day every day? :spam:
:monkey:
raycarr
ArboristSite Operative
I would never call myself an expert, but I do know one, my uncle Randy,he has 15 years of Northern CA expirience. I showed him this thread, he read the whole thing, laughed through most of it, then slapped the back of my head for being rude.
Ok, he says that going atleast one full third for a facecut, is good, anything less could cause problems. Then pointed out to me that all trees are different, there is no hard and fast rule when falling timber. I sat and looked at a bunch of old photos, it appeared to me that most of the cuts I saw were close to 45%, leaving 5-10% hinge wood. There were also some facecuts that were specialized for the really big trees, it was hard to tell just how much wood was removed, from the blocks and chunks on the ground, I'm guessing that a whole bunch of cutting was involved. His comments on this thread...Smoke's analysis is as sharp as his wit, farmers should stick to the plow, 2 million trees in 20 years sounds like a corn harvest, it's not the number of trees felled, it's the boardfootage that is important.
I have heavily:censored: editted this, sometimes he goes too :censored: far, and doesn't care who hears :censored: him.
Ray
Ok, he says that going atleast one full third for a facecut, is good, anything less could cause problems. Then pointed out to me that all trees are different, there is no hard and fast rule when falling timber. I sat and looked at a bunch of old photos, it appeared to me that most of the cuts I saw were close to 45%, leaving 5-10% hinge wood. There were also some facecuts that were specialized for the really big trees, it was hard to tell just how much wood was removed, from the blocks and chunks on the ground, I'm guessing that a whole bunch of cutting was involved. His comments on this thread...Smoke's analysis is as sharp as his wit, farmers should stick to the plow, 2 million trees in 20 years sounds like a corn harvest, it's not the number of trees felled, it's the boardfootage that is important.
I have heavily:censored: editted this, sometimes he goes too :censored: far, and doesn't care who hears :censored: him.
Ray
LOL Bring your little pine/fir tree sawing uncle over here and I'll drink beer and laugh at him while he tries to make most of these old red oaks go anywhere they weren't going to go to start with.
raycarr
ArboristSite Operative
Your'e pretty funny, the man dropped old growth Redwoods in his day, for those few who know him, they will find your comments hilarious.
'Junk, better stick to what you know.
Ray
Notice, I didn't offer commentary about dropping old growth Redwoods.
But, I can tell him about old red oaks and center of gravity. A straight up oak tree is a rare treat. And if anybody thinks you are going to effect them more than a few degrees by notching when the are several thousand pounds loaded to one side, you are just nuts. Farmer or arborist extraordinaire.
Maybe he should also limit his comments to what he knows.
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HolmenTree
ArboristSite Guru
Hello gents, I got customers waiting for me ,but they can wait.
Smokechase ,I gotta apologize for the headgasket thing and then the weed comment,too much coffee in the am lately has made me a little edgy.
We will talk notches and hingewood a bit later on. Just to add to my longwinded novel of Manitoba logging .I have to add that we all like to brag about our log cutting abilities and production in the woods, but alot of the time I was cutting for the company I was cutting 4-6" timber and getting scaled for only 25-30ft length.With these trees[very close together] I was just slashing one shallow cut for a notch cut the backcut clean thru and pitching them into bunches before they hit the ground. 1 choker around about 5 trees.[20 chokers on skidder] We never had to skid over 500 ft., up to 3 loads an hour.Do the math. The best ever we did in this smallwood was 150 cords in 40 hr, alot of trees here but not much cordage.I was running a Madsenized 034& 044 with 16" bar/chain.
Get ahold of Sam Madsen at Madsens ,he can vouch for me. Or get ahold of Fred Whyte president of Stihl USA .He hired me in 1989 to work for Stihl as technical services manager or Steve Meriam national sales &product development manager for Stihl USA ,he was then my branch manager. They can vouch for me, but they still may be a little hot under the collar for when I quit on them and went back to Manitoba to go back logging. Especialy when I was in the middle of a factory sawchain test. Fred always talked about the trees in northern Saskatchewan and Manitoba being as thick as the hair on a dogs back.
Willard Holmenopcorn:
Smokechase ,I gotta apologize for the headgasket thing and then the weed comment,too much coffee in the am lately has made me a little edgy.
We will talk notches and hingewood a bit later on. Just to add to my longwinded novel of Manitoba logging .I have to add that we all like to brag about our log cutting abilities and production in the woods, but alot of the time I was cutting for the company I was cutting 4-6" timber and getting scaled for only 25-30ft length.With these trees[very close together] I was just slashing one shallow cut for a notch cut the backcut clean thru and pitching them into bunches before they hit the ground. 1 choker around about 5 trees.[20 chokers on skidder] We never had to skid over 500 ft., up to 3 loads an hour.Do the math. The best ever we did in this smallwood was 150 cords in 40 hr, alot of trees here but not much cordage.I was running a Madsenized 034& 044 with 16" bar/chain.
Get ahold of Sam Madsen at Madsens ,he can vouch for me. Or get ahold of Fred Whyte president of Stihl USA .He hired me in 1989 to work for Stihl as technical services manager or Steve Meriam national sales &product development manager for Stihl USA ,he was then my branch manager. They can vouch for me, but they still may be a little hot under the collar for when I quit on them and went back to Manitoba to go back logging. Especialy when I was in the middle of a factory sawchain test. Fred always talked about the trees in northern Saskatchewan and Manitoba being as thick as the hair on a dogs back.
Willard Holmen
opcorn:
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The trees they are a shrinkin..... Coulda been a hit song a few years ago.
sperho
ArboristSite Operative
Your 2 cents-worth of input originally began by you touting something along the lines of "I should know something about this topic because I've cut 2 million trees over the course of my career". Now, it turns out that you were in actuality, mostly brush cutting.
I'm actually entertained - keep filling us in on the details....
Hello gents, I got customers waiting for me ,but they can wait.
Smokechase ,I gotta apologize for the headgasket thing and then the weed comment,too much coffee in the am lately has made me a little edgy.
We will talk notches and hingewood a bit later on. Just to add to my longwinded novel of Manitoba logging .I have to add that we all like to brag about our log cutting abilities and production in the woods, but alot of the time I was cutting for the company I was cutting 4-6" timber and getting scaled for only 25-30ft length.With these trees[very close together] I was just slashing one shallow cut for a notch cut the backcut clean thru and pitching them into bunches before they hit the ground. 1 choker around about 5 trees.[20 chokers on skidder] We never had to skid over 500 ft., up to 3 loads an hour.Do the math. The best ever we did in this smallwood was 150 cords in 40 hr, alot of trees here but not much cordage.I was running a Madsenized 034& 044 with 16" bar/chain.
Get ahold of Sam Madsen at Madsens ,he can vouch for me. Or get ahold of Fred Whyte president of Stihl USA .He hired me in 1989 to work for Stihl as technical services manager or Steve Meriam national sales &product development manager for Stihl USA ,he was then my branch manager. They can vouch for me, but they still may be a little hot under the collar for when I quit on them and went back to Manitoba to go back logging. Especialy when I was in the middle of a factory sawchain test. Fred always talked about the trees in northern Saskatchewan and Manitoba being as thick as the hair on a dogs back.
Willard Holmen
OK things are begining to make more sense. During a vegetation management project last year I probably cut 2,000 over 4-5 weeks. However they were from pencil size up to about 8-10 inches. One swipe with the saw might cut 40 "trees at once.
Sorry I jumped on you early. Lets here more.
You were cutting 40 at a swipe and it still took you 4 or 5 weeks to cut 2000? Man, you were taking way too many potty breaks. That's only 50 swipes.. assuming you worked 40 hr weeks, you only took one swipe every 3.2 hours. YOU SLACKER! :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:
Ian
Hey I never said I could do math! Ok make that 10,000 trees over the course of the project. I'll take pics this year and post them here just for you. Troublemaker!
Ekka
Addicted to ArboristSite
And the winner of this here pissing contest is the legendary man who uses no notch and can cut 4000 redwoods per hour!
LOL
LOL
Hello gents, I got customers waiting for me ,but they can wait.
Smokechase ,I gotta apologize for the headgasket thing and then the weed comment,too much coffee in the am lately has made me a little edgy.
We will talk notches and hingewood a bit later on. Just to add to my longwinded novel of Manitoba logging .I have to add that we all like to brag about our log cutting abilities and production in the woods, but alot of the time I was cutting for the company I was cutting 4-6" timber and getting scaled for only 25-30ft length.With these trees[very close together] I was just slashing one shallow cut for a notch cut the backcut clean thru and pitching them into bunches before they hit the ground. 1 choker around about 5 trees.[20 chokers on skidder] We never had to skid over 500 ft., up to 3 loads an hour.Do the math. The best ever we did in this smallwood was 150 cords in 40 hr, alot of trees here but not much cordage.I was running a Madsenized 034& 044 with 16" bar/chain.
Get ahold of Sam Madsen at Madsens ,he can vouch for me. Or get ahold of Fred Whyte president of Stihl USA .He hired me in 1989 to work for Stihl as technical services manager or Steve Meriam national sales &product development manager for Stihl USA ,he was then my branch manager. They can vouch for me, but they still may be a little hot under the collar for when I quit on them and went back to Manitoba to go back logging. Especialy when I was in the middle of a factory sawchain test. Fred always talked about the trees in northern Saskatchewan and Manitoba being as thick as the hair on a dogs back.
Willard Holmen
The BS Meter has red-lined.
Hey I never said I could do math! Ok make that 10,000 trees over the course of the project. I'll take pics this year and post them here just for you. Troublemaker!
Does spending all day to cut just one tree count? A couple of hours to fall out the busters and skid them out, an hour to ALAP the stumps, an hour or so to Cat up the bed, quite a bit of time gunning the face, and a whole bunch of time on the back cut jacking and wedging. One old growth redwood...and it saved out clear to the top.
I don't guess I'll ever get to 2 million trees that way.
sILlogger
Addicted to ArboristSite
Does spending all day to cut just one tree count? A couple of hours to fall out the busters and skid them out, an hour to ALAP the stumps, an hour or so to Cat up the bed, quite a bit of time gunning the face, and a whole bunch of time on the back cut jacking and wedging. One old growth redwood...and it saved out clear to the top.
great post!! & I"m all out of rep!!
in no way can i even compare to cutting a tree like some of the redwoods...or using a tree jack(although i could use one sometimes) but i know what you are trying to say...in loggerworld(atleast from my experience)it is a balance of Quality of cutting and Quantity!! setting them down and saving them out-the bigger they are the more important(i know i don't cut "big" trees compared to the PNWer's...but we get some decent sized stuff around here...throw some forked limbs into the mix that will bust the log when they hit the ground and it changes things)
the only reason i can think of the keeping count of trees cut is for scale....and scale is all that matters!!
to me counting how many trees that you have cut in your career is about like keeping track of how many beers u drink in a night-so you can tell people how many later on. loggers don't even think about how many trees they've cut....or how many beers they've drank----they just know that it is ALOT!!
btw..are the "busters" the trees that are in the lay of the larger tree to be cut?
chad3
ArboristSite Operative
Wedges, yes
I have to say, I have been using wedges more and more now and really work some of them. But the worst case is very small trees wanting to go the other way and I don't have the wedge to pull them over because the saw isn't in enough before the tree starts to lean back. THOSE SUCK!!! Make the most of wedges that you can and remember they are cheap, buy a dozen and be happy. If the tree wants to go the other way and you know it. Put in a few as soon as you can at a the butt (loosing a bit but working up) and you will almost feel the tree start moving the other way.
Chad
I have to say, I have been using wedges more and more now and really work some of them. But the worst case is very small trees wanting to go the other way and I don't have the wedge to pull them over because the saw isn't in enough before the tree starts to lean back. THOSE SUCK!!! Make the most of wedges that you can and remember they are cheap, buy a dozen and be happy. If the tree wants to go the other way and you know it. Put in a few as soon as you can at a the butt (loosing a bit but working up) and you will almost feel the tree start moving the other way.
Chad
clearance
Addicted to ArboristSite
Cut the backcut first, and stick in a wedge, then the undercut. Been talked about before here a few times.
HolmenTree
ArboristSite Guru
And the winner of this here pissing contest is the legendary man who uses no notch and can cut 4000 redwoods per hour!
LOL
Glad to meet you Ekka, I think all this excitment can be related to the cane cutters in Australia eh. These guys are respected for their production ,am I correct? Nothing worse then a dog###### to mess up their world .
You know I never had to count my trees,recently just did some averaging and came up with a number what I figure I did in my best years. I always paced out the face of my pile before the weekly scaler came and I was always close to the cords I knew I had,we'd sure yell if we didn't get it. We can compare apple and oranges and different culture lingo here all day long but we are not getting anywhere because I believe no one here was ever a real piecework logger, we can't relate........ and like I said everything I posted here is true.
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HolmenTree
ArboristSite Guru
GOLOGIT .....do what I said , send an e-mail or whatever to Fred Whyte,Steve Meriam at Stihl or Sam at Madsens[post#229] and get their side of the story and then we'll see how that BS meter is working.
Come on old boy.
Willard Holmen
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HolmenTree
ArboristSite Guru
The trees they are a shrinkin..... Coulda been a hit song a few years ago.
No I just forgot to put it in my post# 211
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