60 minutes, $300.00

[04ultra]

I've seen one of them before,,,,,,??? I wonder where?????

Mow R U a certified wooden erector set
builder????? Yep the carpenters Local is gonna file a grievance!!!!!!

:spam: :spam: :spam:

You sure are crafty!!!!!

opcorn: opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:



.

 

[Woodie]

But I think the tone started out bad, then got worse.

Just wanted to clarify that...I'm not saying Tom's entire thread started out badly, I'm saying that the "challenge" part of it started out badly. Too aggressive...and of course, then we devolved into incest or some such, and that's never good...

 

[RiverRat2]

Just wanted to clarify that...I'm not saying Tom's entire thread started out badly, I'm saying that the "challenge" part of it started out badly. Too aggressive...and of course, then we devolved into incest or some such, and that's never good...

UNNNHHHHHH HuuunHHHH!!!!! WHAT HE SAID!!!!!

 

[talon1189]

Daayuum.....dis must be da new "Prince of saws" thread

.........

 

[RiverRat2]

Hey Talon!!!!!

Daayuum.....dis must be da new "Prince of saws" thread

.........

GOOD TO SEE YA'S AROUND!!!!!!!!!!!!:greenchainsaw:

 

[THALL10326]

Fact is, I can't take a side because I don't know the laws where you're working. Where I live, it is a crime to take money to do tree work unless you are licensed by the city, and you can't get that license without a $300,000 policy. And yes, I did say crime...it's not even a civil infraction...it's a misdemeanor. But, if there are no such laws where you live and work, then there is no unfair competition.

I happen to have a private pesticide applicator's license from the State of Michigan. I got it in order to be able to use regulated herbicides on my own property. I have friends that have asked me to do herbicide applications on their lawns, some of which have offered some money. I always turn those down, because the terms of my license forbid me from doing so for hire. It is unfair competition for me to come in and do that type of work, because I have no insurance policy if something were to go wrong. The guy's that have that policy have to bake it into their rates, so by definition I'm competing unfairly. However, I have done some for good friends for free, simply because the vast majority of lawn services in my area just don't know the first *&^% thing about proper herbicide application, and I don't want to see a good friend's lawn wrecked.

Couple of other points...someone, may even have been you, said that you weren't a business...you were just a person. But here's the thing...once you enter into a contract to perform services for hire, you actually are a business...you are a sole propietor, and the IRS will treat you as such. Now, before someone mentions that we all get paid by our employers, yes...we do, but there is no business contract there. (Even if you're union...that's an employment contract). We're all free to walk away from our jobs on a moment's notice, for any reason or none, so no, we are not all "businesses."

Furthermore, a verbal agreement is a binding contract unless it falls under the statute of frauds, which again varies from state to state. So you are truly acting as a business under the circumstances.

As to who would pay in the event of an accident...depends on state laws again, but there might not be anyone to pay. Where I live, if I hired an unlicensed tree contractor, he would be commiting a crime by working on the tree. If there was an accident, (1) He has no insurance, (2) My policy would probably fight paying because I hired a criminal to do something I shouldn't have. So in the end...maybe my policy would pay, but bet your lungs not for a long, long time.

Now, in your favor, none of that crap above may apply at all where you live. If you don't need a license, and if you aren't required to have insurance, free market rules, baby! Also, my guess is that you know your limitations, and if you think anything could remotely go wrong, you won't take the job.

Both sides have some good points. But I think the tone started out bad, then got worse. Again, too much drama, not enough bullcrappin'!!

Wow long post there Woodie. I see all your points there and they are quite valid depending on where you live. In Va a verbal contract means totally nothing. Contracts around here have to be on paper and signed, verbal means nothing but he said she said, the courts won't even listen to such deals. There is no binding contract between me and homeowners what so ever. If I decided the weather was bad and said screw it they can deal with it or get someone else, not a thing they can do about it. On the flip side if I load up my saws and fill my truck full of gas to go do what we agreed on and they have changed their mind so be it, not one thing I can do about it. My time would be wasted but not one thing I can do about it. Have yet to have that happen or fail to show up to do what I said I would.

As for this thread ya taking it too serious Woodie. Fact is I don't care who thinks what about what I do. Since when am I gonna worry about what folks think states away. Oh I like the going back and forth with them but trust me I don't really give a rip one way or the other. To me is nothing more than a match of wits and humor. You know first hand Woodie I like to play and this thread is no different. Oh I may have sounded tuff making my points but fact is I'm sitting here grinning and thinking the whole time this is a pretty good thread. Far as the issue goes not one thing has changed, haven't given that a second thought at all. I'll be out there working as work comes to me and thats that. So relax ole boy, nothing aggresive going on, just holding my ground. I mean durn Woodie you should know as much as you and me have played around I'm not the kind to back down even in good fun. I can take anything dished out and can send back equal amounts, maybe even more. So chill ole boy, all is good.

 

[THALL10326]

Well I ain't going to argue, just a little food for thought.
Personally, I couldn't give a sh!t less if Thall clear cuts Virginia @ 100.00 a tree, it doesn't affect me. But it wasn't that long ago we were in a discussion about online sales (I don't remember if it was Dolmar, or Husqvarna). Thall, you and several other dealers took verry similar stands to the arborist who posted earlier in this thread.
Have you had a change of heart?
Seriously, take a close look at the stand you have taken. I don't want to think your talking out of both sides of your face if you aren't.
I look for the biggest bang for my buck, just like everyone else. And like I said in the internet sales thread; Competition is good for business, period.
A person has to take a stand, and it should apply to every aspect of their life. If not that stand means nothing.

Andy

Now Red I stand by that 100%. I don't, never have and never will agree internet sales are fine or that billion dollar corporations such as Husky slam their dealers the way they did after those same dealers bulit Huskies reputation many years before. Far as I'm concerned its a slap in their own dealers face the way thay do business. Apparently Husky has gotton the same drift for I'm told they are heading back to their dealers now and good of them to do so. If Stihl ever followed suit I would say the exact samething about them, its a slap.
I also find it a slap that I have on my work bench right now a 345 Husky that has stopped oiling and a 350 Husky with a rung off brake handle and the customers who bought them have no where nearby to take them for repair. If you think I'm the only guy that feels its piss poor business to sell saws over the net only to find out once it fails your stuck with it your wrong. Two very sad faces today when I said I have no parts for either one of those saws, sorry. I doult they will be using the net to buy saws again. You however aren't being stopped at all from using the internet, knock ya self out, buy all ya want. I'm sure not stopping you just because of what I think of it. So no I'm not talking out both sides of my mouth. Your quite welcome to use the net all you like. I could care less but even so I'm entittled to a opinion like everyone else. You and me disagree about net sales for saws and I have proof on my work bench why I don't like it and I guess you have a thicker wallet because you do like the net. To that I say cool beans.

As for me making some pocket change on week ends I don't see how that compares with muti billion dollar corporations at all. You'll have to fill me in where my 100.00 side jobs affects these corporations or anyone else for that matter. Remember I never lost a job I never had now. I don't compete, I'm just around.

 

[spacemule]

How's the pimp'n going, Thall? :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[THALL10326]

How's the pimp'n going, Thall? :hmm3grin2orange:

Its doing good Space, hows the therapy coming along, :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[spacemule]

Its doing good Space, hows the therapy coming along, :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:

I just finished weaving another basket. :rockn:

 

[THALL10326]

I just finished weaving another basket. :rockn:

Thats good now if ya sell it I'm calling Ben Franklin on you, :hmm3grin2orange: :hmm3grin2orange:

 

[redprospector]

As for me making some pocket change on week ends I don't see how that compares with muti billion dollar corporations at all. You'll have to fill me in where my 100.00 side jobs affects these corporations or anyone else for that matter. Remember I never lost a job I never had now. I don't compete, I'm just around.

Thall,
You and several other dealers were talking about the money invested by dealers, and how it's not right for someone to buy saws, store them in their garage, and sell them online. They don't have the same overhead and could sell for less.
Now isn't that the same thing you are doing to the arborist who have equipment, insurance, etc.? You don't have the overhead they do, so you can do it for less.
I guess what I'm saying is that when you make a stand it should be across the board. There is very little difference in these two topics. In one you say lowballing is bad because it dosen't profit your store. In the other you say lowballing is good because it puts cash in your pocket.
All I ask is that you stand fast to your ideals (whether we agree or not), so I can maintain a level of respect for you. And if you decide to do something outside the ideals you have set for yourself, don't brag about it and no one will be the wiser.

Oh yea, on internet sales. Remember you never lost a sale you never had either.

Andy

 

[THALL10326]

Meo, Mio
Thall maybe you should take up some other hobby, This one seems a bit rough. Don't ya think.

Durn Manual I miss your post there, my bad. This hobby is ruff ya say, naaaaaaaaaaa not at all. Tant nutting but a thang. I reckon if they ever outlawed work I'd be one unhappy camper but I don't see that happening anytime soon......

 

[THALL10326]

Thall,
You and several other dealers were talking about the money invested by dealers, and how it's not right for someone to buy saws, store them in their garage, and sell them online. They don't have the same overhead and could sell for less.
Now isn't that the same thing you are doing to the arborist who have equipment, insurance, etc.? You don't have the overhead they do, so you can do it for less.
I guess what I'm saying is that when you make a stand it should be across the board. There is very little difference in these two topics. In one you say lowballing is bad because it dosen't profit your store. In the other you say lowballing is good because it puts cash in your pocket.
All I ask is that you stand fast to your ideals (whether we agree or not), so I can maintain a level of respect for you. And if you decide to do something outside the ideals you have set for yourself, don't brag about it and no one will be the wiser.

Oh yea, on internet sales. Remember you never lost a sale you never had either.

Andy

You made my point Red. I'm not lowballing anyone, especailly the arborists. If the homeowners flat refuse to let them do the work for whatever reason, be money or attitude please tell me why I shouldn't if they come ASK me. See thats the part you miss, they come to me, I don't go looking.

As for the internet saw sales you so cleverly ignored the two sad customers I spoke of today. They paid the price of lowballing, not me, not the dealer, they did. If you think that is good sound business then go to it. I don't sell Husky at all so can you explain why they are showing up in the shop, doesn't the interent have a shop nearby. You missed the point of the whole issue. Years ago Husky was dealer only, it was Husky who later forced their own dealers to compete with Lowes and Sears, not me. They made their own dealers, who built them mind ya, go compete with muti billion dollar corporations. Thats the issue I make and no matter how you cut it you can't deny the fact they slapped them, their own dealers, for the almighty fast buck from the big muti billion corporations like Sears and Lowes. Would you as a small time dealer like to go up againist Lowes all the sudden by pure force, hmm. Have you got billions in the bank to compete with Lowes, I know of no saw dealer that does. Husky knew it too and cashed in on it, pure fact no matter how you slice it.

 

[Cut4fun]

Rutroa Shaggy, I better stop working on my friends saws for brew

 

[THALL10326]

Rutroa Shaggy, I better stop working on my friends saws for brew

Key word there, working. Keep on working, you'll live longer and if ya make some change along the way more power to ya. BTW I made 60.00 today in tips. How do I feel about it, GREAT...........

 

[redprospector]

You made my point Red. I'm not lowballing anyone, especailly the arborists. If the homeowners flat refuse to let them do the work for whatever reason, be money or attitude please tell me why I shouldn't if they come ASK me. See thats the part you miss, they come to me, I don't go looking.

As for the internet saw sales you so cleverly ignored the two sad customers I spoke of today. They paid the price of lowballing, not me, not the dealer, they did. If you think that is good sound business then go to it. I don't sell Husky at all so can you explain why they are showing up in the shop, doesn't the interent have a shop nearby. You missed the point of the whole issue. Years ago Husky was dealer only, it was Husky who later forced their own dealers to compete with Lowes and Sears, not me. They made their own dealers, who built them mind ya, go compete with muti billion dollar corporations. Thats the issue I make and no matter how you cut it you can't deny the fact they slapped them, their own dealers, for the almighty fast buck from the big muti billion corporations like Sears and Lowes. Would you as a small time dealer like to go up againist Lowes all the sudden by pure force, hmm. Have you got billions in the bank to compete with Lowes, I know of no saw dealer that does. Husky knew it too and cashed in on it, pure fact no matter how you slice it.

Hahaha, I guess we are missing each others points.
Those folks with saws on your bench got what they paid for. I've only bought one new saw online in my life, and that was only because my dealer couldn't get what I wanted. But that doesn't make internet sales bad in my opinion, it's just competition. Competition helps keep prices in line. Hell I have to compete against guy's working crews of wetback's, I don't like it, but it keeps me honest on pricing. And whether you go after the job or not, you're still competition. You can paint a turd green, and it's still a turd, it's just green now.
I was just questioning your integrity, but if you can justify it in your mind it's no skin off my nose.

Andy

 

[spike60]

Spikes' side jobs LLC.

Well the timing just couldn't be better on this one. I've gone and got myself a side job this coming Sunday, and because of this thread, I'm gonna be laughing the rest of the week!

Nothing to do with trees or saws, so I won't offend any members here. I agree with one point that I believe redprospector was trying to make: many times our viewpoint changes depending on whose ox is being gored.

An elderly women needs to have her Kitchen painted. The home care person's daughter was offered the job but blew it off. So, a buddie and I are going to paint this kitchen for $125. Ain't licensed, insured, collecting sales tax, or reporting the income.

Now If I posted this on painterssite.com, I bet that there would be a lot of "pros" all worked up about this. I'm not certified, don't have a van with my company name on it, hell, I don't even have a pair of white painters pants. And there is a 99% probability that I'll be drinking beer on the job!

I just hope that no painter's kids are going to go hungry cause we are going to paint that kitchen. Course, I do all of my own painting at my house too, further depriving the local painters of their livelyhood.

I'm a pretty self sufficient guy, but after this thread, any time I do something for myself I'm going to be wondering if I'm taking work away from some guy who does whatever it is for a living. I just fixed my shower faucet. Maybe I should have called a plumber and payed him $200 for a 15 minute job. Yeah, plumbers! And we though arborists charged a lot!

 

[04ultra]

We Destroy Property For Free..But we can have what ever we want before we start destroying...Does that count...





.

 

[THALL10326]

Hahaha, I guess we are missing each others points.
Those folks with saws on your bench got what they paid for. I've only bought one new saw online in my life, and that was only because my dealer couldn't get what I wanted. But that doesn't make internet sales bad in my opinion, it's just competition. Competition helps keep prices in line. Hell I have to compete against guy's working crews of wetback's, I don't like it, but it keeps me honest on pricing. And whether you go after the job or not, you're still competition. You can paint a turd green, and it's still a turd, it's just green now.
I was just questioning your integrity, but if you can justify it in your mind it's no skin off my nose.

Andy

Well I'm pretty sure when those saws were bought online the customers were thinking price only. Today they were thinking grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr so in a way your correct, they got what they paid for but the flip side is who allowed it, hmmm. I got no bones with Husky at all other than them allowing the interent sales without service and here we have two unhappy customers. I didn't try to sell them a Stihl but I could have. Instead I told them the nearest Husky dealer that I knew of and its quite a ways up the road.

As for questioning my intergrity you need to question those people who come ask me. Are they cheap, tight, lowballers, who knows. I don't care. I do what I do mostly for fun and I sure as hell aint gonna do it for nothing all the time. Hell the arborists should thank me, I take care of those cheap lowballers that won't use them. Its not competiton that brings those folks to me, that I can assure you. Its all about what they feel is right for them, they make they're own decisions, I don't. I'm just around, thats all. I get the crumbs man, not the big bucks, just the crumbs,LOLOL