661 Oil Test 32:1 vs 40:1 vs 50:1 ?

[blsnelling]

The only thing shown so far is that some saws, not all, run worse on H1-R at 32:1 than they do with less oil. Until another high viscosity ester oil is tested, we do not know if those results were due to H1-R inhibiting combustion, or if it's simply too much oil. You won't answer this question until you have tested some more heavy oils. That needs done first and foremost.

 

[blsnelling]

Don't worry about splitting hairs at this point. Test 32:1, 40:1, and 50:1. Only after you have decided on an oil would I spend any effort going to any more effort on ratios.

 

[Hedgerow]

Have you not run a ported 372?

It was the little orange saw that beat the 661's in the same piece of Elm..
LOL..
With a dull chain...
Hahahahahaha!!!

 

[Time's Standing Stihl]

What has not been posted is the end of day results.. I know, cause I ran them.. In a red Elm log, free of knots, the ported saws, running the same fuel as red bulls saw, made approximately 25% better times than the stock muff modded saw.. Mitch ported one and Randy ported one.. The two ported saws were virtually identical.
Earlier in the day, the ported saw was dead even with the stock saw as the ported saw was running that bell ray **** 32:1...
Stocker was at 50:1..
Fact... Anyone wanna debate with me??? I'm game...

My saw was running ultra @32:1 with 91 octane.....

 

[huskihl]

It was the little orange saw that beat the 661's in the same piece of Elm..
LOL..
With a dull chain...
Hahahahahaha!!!

The saddest part of this whole thread is you basterd Missourins cuttin' red elm into cookies over thar in Iowa. Damn shame I tell ya. I grew up cutting, splitting, and burning that stuff from the time I was 10 years old. I guess we cut too much of it cuz now it's all gone.

 

[Hedgerow]

My saw was running ultra @32:1 with 91 octane.....

I wasn't gonna tell em...
Lol..

 

[blsnelling]

It was the little orange saw that beat the 661's in the same piece of Elm..
LOL..
With a dull chain...
Hahahahahaha!!!

385/390?

 

[Time's Standing Stihl]

Figured I would get them scratching their heads a bit more

 

[mdavlee]

385/390?

365 probably

 

[WKEND LUMBERJAK]

365 probably

No way

 

[Hedgerow]

365 probably

Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!
I don't think anyone would guess...
But it's one of your favorites...

 

[mdavlee]

Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!
I don't think anyone would guess...
But it's one of your favorites...

Ahhhh the orange and black one.

 

[Hedgerow]

Ahhhh the orange and black one.

In average wood, those 661's don't even stand a chance..

 

[blsnelling]

Test Criteria​

Control Factors

The following CRITICAL factors that MUST be controlled.

1. Wood consistency
   1. Do not use multiple logs for testing the same mix. Make three cuts in the same log in order to obtain an average.
   2. Honestly, if you want the most accurate results, this testing should be done on a dyno.
2. Tuning
   1. The saw must be tuned in the cut, giving it what it wants, not just what a tach saws. I would use a tach for reference and to check myself. Tuning would be done in a separate log, so as to not waste good test wood.
3. Cutting technique
   1. The dawgs cannot be used at all! The cut should be started with the saw at full RPMs, dropped into the log very decidedly, and a consistent load maintained on the saw for the entire cut. Best cut times will come from a moderately heavy load, but not lugging it at all. A feel for this can only be gained through experience.

Oils and Ratios

Determine the high viscosity oils to be tested.

1. Bel-Ray H1-R
2. Motul 800 2T
3. Maxima K2
4. Klotz R50

Determine the moderate viscosity oils to be tested.

1. Motul 710
2. Yamalube 2R
3. Lucas

Test each oil at the following ratios.

1. 32:1
2. 40:1
3. 50:1
   1. Note: I would not split hairs testing any additional ratios at this point. You can do that after you chose an oil.

Tests

1. Test each mix in at least two MTronic saws, muffler modded only.
   1. MS661C
   2. MS362C or MS261C
2. Test each mix in at least two standard carbed saws, muffler modded only.
   1. MS660
   2. MS461, MS361, MS261
3. Test each mix in at least two MTronic saws, ported.
   1. MS661C
   2. MS362C, MS261C
4. Test each mix in at least two standard carbed saws, ported
   1. MS661
   2. MS461, MS361, MS261

Yes, that’s a LOT of tests, but only after you have that data can you begin to draw some conclusions. Doing so without this data is only guessing and making assumptions.

This is only a first take at it. I'm sure it needs some refining.

 

[Andyshine77]

Hey Andy.... Let's race 4 cube's...
I'll run 40:1, and you can run a muff modded at any oil mix you want..


I get your saw when we done...

No! I'm too scared, and I don't trust you.[emoji6]

 

[Andyshine77]

Test Criteria​

Control Factors

The following CRITICAL factors that MUST be controlled.

1. Wood consistency
   1. Do not use multiple logs for testing the same mix. Make three cuts in the same log in order to obtain an average.
   2. Honestly, if you want the most accurate results, this testing should be done on a dyno.
2. Tuning
   1. The saw must be tuned in the cut, giving it what it wants, not just what a tach saws. I would use a tach for reference and to check myself. Tuning would be done in a separate log, so as to not waste good test wood.
3. Cutting technique
   1. The dawgs cannot be used at all! The cut should be started with the saw at full RPMs, dropped into the log very decidedly, and a consistent load maintained on the saw for the entire cut. Best cut times will come from a moderately heavy load, but not lugging it at all. A feel for this can only be gained through experience.

Oils and Ratios

Determine the high viscosity oils to be tested.

1. Bel-Ray H1-R
2. Motul 800 2T
3. Maxima K2
4. Klotz R50

Determine the moderate viscosity oils to be tested.

1. Motul 710
2. Yamalube 2R
3. Lucas

Test each oil at the following ratios.

1. 32:1
2. 40:1
3. 50:1
   1. Note: I would not split hairs testing any additional ratios at this point. You can do that after you chose an oil.

Tests

1. Test each mix in at least two MTronic saws, muffler modded only.
   1. MS661C
   2. MS362C or MS261C
2. Test each mix in at least two standard carbed saws, muffler modded only.
   1. MS660
   2. MS461, MS361, MS261
3. Test each mix in at least two MTronic saws, ported.
   1. MS661C
   2. MS362C, MS261C
4. Test each mix in at least two standard carbed saws, ported
   1. MS661
   2. MS461, MS361, MS261

Yes, that’s a LOT of tests, but only after you have that data can you begin to draw some conclusions. Doing so without this data is only guessing and making assumptions.

This is only a first take at it. I'm sure it needs some refining.

Looks about right, I'm sure others parameters will pop up.[emoji8]

 

[Andyshine77]

1. 
   IMO the wood changes to much doing 3 cuts...that's 9 slices off the same log per test! I'd say 2 cuts on two different logs.
   
   Also need a NEW chain for each mix ratio.

And I'm outta here. Best of luck. Tired of the insults.

I really can't blame you, some take things and make things personal.

Later.

 

[Andyshine77]

Now wait a minute. I'm missing something here. I thought Brad and MM were running 32:1 Bel Ray H1R in their ported saws. Correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't H1R the oil everyone, well a lot of on this site were running before this thread started?

Yes many ran and recommended it. I ran a few tanks of it and hated the way it ran in my 346 and 421, I brought up my concerns about how H1R ran with Brad and a few others. I would not recommend H1R after my experience with the product. You're not going to trash a top end or anything like that, but it causes some inconsistent running and tuning problems.

 

[the GOAT]

What has not been posted is the end of day results.. I know, cause I ran them.. In a red Elm log, free of knots, the ported saws, running the same fuel as red bulls saw, made approximately 25% better times than the stock muff modded saw.. Mitch ported one and Randy ported one.. The two ported saws were virtually identical.
Earlier in the day, the ported saw was dead even with the stock saw as the ported saw was running that bell ray **** 32:1...
Stocker was at 50:1..
Fact... Anyone wanna debate with me??? I'm game...

Now wait a minute. I'm missing something here. I thought Brad and MM were running 32:1 Bel Ray H1R in their ported saws. Correct me if I'm wrong. Wasn't H1R the oil everyone, well a lot of on this site were running before this thread started?

Ok, so I've kind of been following this thread.... But two ported saws running 32:1 weren't any faster than a muffler mod'd saw running 50:1? And when they were all running 50:1 the ported saws were faster??

Since the 'top' builders reccomend/require 32:1 in ported saws what is the point of having a saw ported... I'd rather run 50:1 spend less $$$, save the polar bears AND cut just as fast.

 

[Andyshine77]

Ok, so I've kind of been following this thread.... But two ported saws running 32:1 weren't any faster than a muffler mod'd saw running 50:1? And when they were all running 50:1 the ported saws were faster??

Since the 'top' builders reccomend 32:1 in ported saws what is the point of having a saw ported... I'd rather run 50:1 spend less $$$, save the polar bears AND cut just as fast.

You nailed it. The oil ratio has nothing to with any of this, other than the fact H1R makes saws run backwards lol. Also, not every ported saw actually runs better than a stock one.

Saw builders have a product to sell, it's in their best interest to market themselves and their product. This holds true with every saw builder and any product. Some of the stuff that's been marketed here and on other forms is downright amusing at times, and people fall for this propaganda hook line and sinker. If you want a good running work saw, open up the exhaust, set squish and on some saws advance the timing. That will get you most of the gains in a work saw IMHO. And as always a property setup chain will take you to the next level.